Grunz has to redo a bit again since petrie cant stop finding improvements. He is a douche that way. He only finds stuff when runs are past that specific point. ;D
Anyway that means Grunz is basically at odolwa and no he is not on working on it at the moment since he is a lazy bum... and it's like 40°C (104°F) in the shadow here, so he has enough to do with finding some cold liquid to jump in.
I checked old posts.
As Halamantariel mentioned there, Rice 6.0.0 video plugin syncs. But loading from savestates causes desync.
So it is necessary to start replay from start whenever watching movie on mupen64. I hope desync problem is solved.
Another method to avoid desync is here from Bisqwit, though I haven’t tried.
Thank you for your explanation about the mechanism of desyncs, Mr. Grunz.
I’m looking forward to your work, all the more.
EDIT: I also tried Bisqwit’s method, only to end error message, "Error creating Direc3D device!"
I can replay by Halamantariel’s method, so I’m not bothered, except for the demand of replaying from first.
Ääääääääähm the advices you are refering to here are for Mukkis old TAS. That one synced with so many different plugins because Mukki had to work hard to avoid desyncs in general, because the old mupen was very prone to it with MM. Grunzes TAS will only sync with the plugins he used.
Are you sure that Rice syncs? That would be the first time I hear about it.
Well not the same but a lot are very similar. Afaik it all has a little different timing. MM is lacking the power crouch stab, but has way better bomb physics than OoT, which helps a lot with hovering and makes the HISS possible.
I would suggest you read up on the glitches here: http://zeldaspeedruns.com/site/index.php?game=mm
seriously, 10 weeks?
that's a joke isn't it?
no way you could optimize a 50-55 minutes TAS within that short amount of time
That statement would be true if it was 50-55 mins of complex gameplay, but with cutscenes, text and some trivial parts in the AL section, you're probably talking about 20-25 mins. That said there is 4-5 sections that I'm dreading.
Yeah but still. You are very optimistic and might not have considered that I have a few ideas for you guys and my ideas are always hard to do. Just ask Grunz. XD And Grunz will probably see to it that you have to use bombs a shitton, once you have them. He has an eye for places where you can save a few frames with a bomb, through his TASing of MM.
But why don't you guys start already, if it can be done in such a timely fashion? The route has been solid for a while now. People are starting to suspect that you can only talk. Come on prove them wrong! :D
This is practically up there with M64 as one of the astounding sequence breaks on this site. Congratulations on being able to lead the charge on this new entry!
Hmm I don't see the resemblance M64 just glitches past the requirements. This manipulates memory to get the requirements, which really reminds me of the OoT any%.
This run is really awesome.
I think it should just replace the old run and don't get it's own category. This game just doesn't have that much variety. If you have seen one level you've seen them all. so I quite like the fact that we only have to see one level here and get the awesome bossfight after that.
Congratulations on the discovery. So what does this exactly do to the route, what items we get and all?
It will effect every run of OoT. In terms of the any% it means we can get the odd mushroom in the Fortress, skipping the egg+cojoiro. The only downside is that we won't have bombs for superslides.
I'm pretty sure that you lose way to much time through getting the chus, mushroom fro the fortress and not having bombs for this to be usefull.
Even if you find bushe with which you can use the chus to superlide, there are still some awfully long ways were you won't be able to slide and 10 chus really aren't that much...
Ofcourse I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am. :D ... will have to do some math.
MrGrunz wrote:
in all temples we get chus from well now and go to fortress as adult. we also skip requiem together with magic bean completely, so this trick finally gets really useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjbh9Upbc2s
How does this become usefull? Or rather more usefull than it is now. I thought you had to open one locked door in there as a child...
No. To use ocarina items you have to drop and catch stuff in bottles. But you can combine that with RBA (where you also have to drop and catch stuff in a bottle XD ). Equipping the fairy ocarina would actually loose us time... so yeah.
Grunz said he was sure that skipping shield and getting letter in bottle was fastest.
Yeah Grunz is talking a lot of crap if the day is long. XD
But I guess AKA will have to test this stuff out.
Did you already test something of this crap, AKA? Afaik you guys wanted to start tasing soon, didn't you?
Kirkq (pages ago) wrote:
I did a rough comparison [of time to exit kokiri forest] and the [method of megaflipping out of the lost woods] still seems to be about 10-15 seconds faster [than the superslide clip ocarina cutscene method] assuming the deku stick [and shield are] acquired in both cases. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty sure it will be more than 30 seconds when tased properly.
Btw. also one thing worth considering: without the shield you might not make it to the market from Kakariko before nightfall.
bloob for president, although I loved my zora's river early trick :/
so we skip shield now and use the water ESS escape?
? Why skip the shield?
We don't need the fairy ocarina, which means getting the shield + old forest escape will be faster with 99% certainty, since that ocarina cutscene takes quite some time. (1 minute and 30 seconds to be precise)
So even with gathering a few rupees and buying stuff from the shop it should be faster to avoid the cutscene. You also have to consider that you save time while skipping the owl twice (the second owl is also faster skipped with a stick) and through supersliding.
If ruto or cucco bottle are faster I really can't say. But I can tell you that getting stick and shield is worth it. ;)
Oh and fucking great work Bloob. Though I'm a little sad. I think getting the magic bean would have made the child route a little bit more interesting.
I can only hope that ruto bottle is faster than cucco so that it will keep most of the bean route alive.
But in the end everything is great that makes the TAS faster. ^^
Edit:
Ruto bottle would ofcourse cost 20r more in the beginning. On the other hand it would provide a lot of rupees further down the line, to buy the hylia shield. I don't know where you would get all the rupees needed with the cucco bottle, unless you slash a lot of bushes.
Just something worth considering, imo
Although cucco bottle takes mostly place in Kakariko where time doesn't move. So it shouldn't be a problem to get the bottle and get to HM before night falls even once.
That might be a problem with the ruto bottle.
And we actually get the Hylia shield faster with the bean route, since we buy it as a kid at Hyrule market. ;)
No.
U have to get the rupies, get to the shop, buy shield, leave shop and get back to regular route.
as opposed to entering the grave while at graveyard, grabbing the shield and then leaving.
Probably not many seconds faster, but to claim that the first is faster than the second is propostrious.
Yeah I chose the wrong word there. Forgive a non nativ english speaker, will you? ;) I meant "sooner".
But it probably will be faster. gathering the ruppes is really done on the way, as we get some through the diving game and the rest while swimming down ZR.
So it's basically buying the shield from the shop or getting it from the grave and I would guestimate that the shop is slightly faster.
The way I see it is that hookshot + scarecrow song is not much slower than beans (if it really is slower like most people here seem to agree upon). The big difference would be if u didn't have to visit Lake Hylia at all to grab bottle/learn song/plant bean.
Well "much" is relative for a TAS. I would estimate about a minute. That's not much for a normal run, but hughe for a TAS.
Though Grunz really knows the difference better. So Grunz what do you think, how much time will the bean route save?
MrGrunz: Are u absolutely sure that the beans are faster than the hookshot? It seems to me that entering the graveyard and grabbing the hookshot isn't that big of a detour when u are getting the egg anyways. This also saves some time in lost woods (hookshooting up ladder twice), in goron city, and one other place (I think it was outside lake hylia he hookshooted up the ladder). And this allows for getting the shield faster than we would otherwise. Also skipping the bridge in gerudo valley can be done with hookshot. Then there is the added time of getting the scarecrow song and the subtracted time of getting & planting the bean. In my head it seems pretty close.
If getting the hookshot as adault was the only thing saved you would be absolutely right. BUT you also have to get the scarecow song as a kid and that means you have to do a trip to lake hylia and get the Ruto bottle anyway. If you get there via zoras river or directly is largely irrelevant, since it's silver scale vs. golden scale and silver scale is faster.
And we actually get the Hylia shield faster with the bean route, since we buy it as a kid at Hyrule market. ;)
Only Tektite hover would save time over the bean route. If I see it correctly that would mean:
- Get deku shield and sword
- do old forest escape
- SS to Kakariko
- get Cucco bottle
- water ISS to Hyrule town
- buy Hylia shield
- DoT skip
and as adault just hover up to the pond.
I am against using racing games for TASes like this one - there is nothing to distinguish it from RTS's - heck, even a real person playing the game.
Hmm yeah at least with Mario Kart there are shortcuts that are hard to pull off and even some the devs never intended. And the CPU matches your speed most of the time (unless you use those unforseen shortuts) so it's never just driving around in a circle. This game really didn't have any of that.
Have to think about what I vote here...
Edit: After further reading the thread I vote no. This run should really have been done with N64 on the fastest speed (I think in this case button codes would be allowed).
And if there are really other difficultys after this one, you should have tased those too, to really commplete the game.
Well that doesn't help us a lot anyway and isn't that important right now. What would be important to know if the loading zones for these gatways are already there before the Ganondorf fight. If they are we might be able to glitch into them and skip light arrows.
Can somebody check in UoT real quick?
Why do you care about encode quality if you think this run is terrible anyway, and you don't care for the site because you can't accept the landslide vote?
Because encode quality has nothing to do with the run, barring console.
No, but for some reason everyone has completely missed the irony of him talking shit about the site and how this run shouldn't be published in one sentence yet demanding that the site produce a quality of the run quickly in the next.
Maybe the problem is that you can't read. I never said that this run shouldn't be published. I only said that the next run should also be allowed to use the J version and I did clearify that multiple times now. And yeah I'm talking "shit" about a site that doesn't consider it's own rules to be relevant. Do you have a problem with that?
4. Even if you decided to make your own site just so you could do your run on the J version, this site will go on. Someone else will pick up the Ocarina of Time run because it's just too popular of a game with too much potential to just have a run sit there with clear improvements.
1. I wouldn't make my own site to use the J rom, I would make my own site because the rules on this site seem to be worth about as much as dog shit...
2. Yeah ofcourse someone else would make a great OoT run, because in the past 4 years so many people have done so. *rofl*
Btw. this run has been excepted for days now. When will we finally get a good encode? Nico video is really crappy.
Yeah, one of the reasons this was accepted was because of the vaporware that has been going on for the past 4 years.
Uuuum and your point is? I never said anything contrary.
4. Even if you decided to make your own site just so you could do your run on the J version, this site will go on. Someone else will pick up the Ocarina of Time run because it's just too popular of a game with too much potential to just have a run sit there with clear improvements.
1. I wouldn't make my own site to use the J rom, I would make my own site because the rules on this site seem to be worth about as much as dog shit...
2. Yeah ofcourse someone else would make a great OoT run, because in the past 4 years so many people have done so. *rofl*
Btw. this run has been excepted for days now. When will we finally get a good encode? Nico video is really crappy.
Just fyi for you people:
I wasn't against publishing this TAS. I was "meh" towards it.
I just wanted to secure that the next runners are granted the same privileges this runner was. Meaning the J rom. Since it is clearly a lot faster to use it.
And yeah I know that text speed doesn't figure into the judging but it does in the perception of the (very often spoken about) general viewer. It's just not fair for the guys making the next run to compete against a J rom with a U rom.
But in the end I probably shouldn't worry. It seems you will accept any OoT run that is reasonably fast, no matter how many rules are screwed, anyway. So if they just do the run on J 1.2 they will be fine. ^^
While the Japanese version can save a margin of 5 minutes, I don't see what makes that version superior to the US version. Sure it's nice to have a final time that is the lowest possible there is, but I must admit I still prefer English language for nostalgic reasons. I can read and I know what's going on. When I see the Japanese text it somehow feels very different and foreign... it's hard to describe for me. It doesn't feel like watching a good OoT TAS and feeling nostalgic.
Well I want the geran version for nostalgic reasons! XD
Also, this comes to my mind here: http://tasvideos.org/1968S.html
The Japanese version of Link's Awakening was used to save text scrolling time. However, this submission was rejected. Not that I want to aim at something here, it's just mere coincidence I wanted to point out.
Yeah but this run didn't have a japanese version before. The OoT run will. That's the whole point.
@DarkKobold
I don't see anything passive agressive in telling what is going to happen. Ofcourse they will use the japanese version. Everything else would be unfair towards them, as they can't compete against the japanese vesion with the english one.
Slowking, an exception is an exception, an exception is not a rule. That's why it's not up for debate.
Man somebody should have told Sadam Hussein that he should have said that killing all these Kurds was an exception. Because that makes everything ok and not debatable!
And the rules have always been "what the admins want that moment, so shut the fuck up." This isn't a democracy, though sometimes the admins ask us for input or ask for a vote.
Well on the sites I usually visit even the admins have to abide by the site rules. I didn't know that this site was a dictatorship. Maybe I should leave and make my own TAS site...
Swordless, Grunz you care to publish on a site that is not a dictatorship in the future? ;D
I guess I should clear up these points:
1) This movie will not be rejected due to using the J ROM (that isn't to say it won't be rejected but that it will not be a factor)
2) If published a new run is still preferred to be a U ROM choice. Text has nothing to do with the improvements. Thus a U ROM can be a slower time than this provided that it is proven to be as a result of the text (which is on the author to prove).
3) A publication will not set a precedent for a J ROM for this movie or any other. Rather be an exception to the rule due to extreme circumstances.
These issues are non-debatable.
Also, people, please use some common sense.
So basically we could just replace all rules with "what the admins want that moment, so shut the fuck up". We have a word for that in german. It's called "Willkür".
How can this not set a precedent for using the jap rom when the rules say it does? It would be unfair for every TAS coming after it if they aren't allowed to use it. Sure a few experts on this site will know why the next TAS isn't as fast but the general public will just think it's sloppy or something. That's not fair to the people investing time in TASing this game.
Slowking: I assure you that no one will care when a future improvement switches back to the English version.
But I assure you they won't. ;)
If they are allowed to use a version that is faster they will. And if this gets published they will be allowed to.
That is all I was saying: If this gets published prepre yourself for future runs of OoT also to be in japanese.
