the diving game takes years to do and you'd have to climb the ladder in the end. that you are in a HISS or water jumpslash ESS makes the bridge just even faster, because you can slide up the bridge ;)
Ah bullshit, it doesn't take years. After you got the silver scale you are up there anyway. Manipulate the zora so that he throws the orange rupee near the warp to lake hylia (he throws it in deep water anyway) and the only time you are going to loose is talking to the guy.
Can you slide up the chains? In that case that will probably be slightly faster.
But it might be nice to have a full wallet. Since then we would only need to collect 1r as an adault to buy arrows.
Mäh. Can't we just accept the silver scale route as the fastest and move on already?
MrGrunz wrote:
- Get 6 Rupees on the way to Lost Woods
Why only 6? If you hop across the 3 water platforms again you get 5 more rupees and it should be quicker than slashing bushes later on. Also I think the 5r in the shop are worth considering.
- Get 40 Rupees from bridge
You could also play the zora diving game a second time and get a orange rupee while diving through the warp to lake hylia. The orange rupee maxes out your wallet and it might be faster than going up and jumping down the drawbridge (especially should you still be in a water-hiss or water-iss). Just a thought...
MrGrunz wrote:
- Mega Flip off Skull Kid into Water to get Water HISS
Swordless pretty much said he would never continue working on the old TAS
Ah Swordless is like Bernd das Brot (little insider for the germans here).
Besides, ofcourse nobody is going to work on the old TAS. Grunz pwned their rupee route and the rupee count is off now anyway, with them having to pay for shield, magic beans, sticks and the diving game.
Magic can either be gotten after getting the saw or after getting the broken sword.
The fastest way to the bridge after getting the saw might be to just walk there, or by using the Serenade first. I'd say using the Nocturne after getting the broken sword would be a pretty fast way to get near Death Mountain then. Then get magic, use the Prelude.
After the saw, it might be possible to go through Goron City to get magic, if that's faster. Else, just use the Nocturne. Then use the Serenade to warp to Lake Hylia and go from there to the bridge, then use the Prelude.
I have no idea what's fastest, but these are the possibilities I can think of. You only get the Nocturne if you use bugs, but they should be faster anyway.
Well it's probably best just to go from the lost woods to Goron City and from there to magic. Should be the fastest route. So no warpsong needed.
After that you prelude of light yourself to tot and go to Gerudo Valley from there.
At that point you long since have bombs so you can use a lot of SS-ESS combinations that should make the way pretty short.
Synx wrote:
How much faster is the magic beans vs the hookshot+scarecrowsong route?
Just curious
Well nobody is going to time it, obviously. But quite some. You save time due to the fact that you don't have to have an Ocarina or bottle when you first visit Lake Hylia. So old forest escape is back in, even with ruto bottle. That saves time and since you get the shield again you can superslide a little, which also saves time.
Then ofcourse you have the big timesaver as adault. You never visit the graveyard, so no introduction scene and no long race against Dampe.
Ofcourse you will loose a little time here and there due to not having the hookshot. If you go through Goron city it will take you longer and in the lost woods you actually have to climb the ladder. But in the end that's really a lot less than what you save.
Well it is a hughe detour at the beginning of the adault part. You are in Kakariko, but visiting the graveyard would cost you quite some time. At least a lot more than just buying a shield at Hyule market as a kid.
I honestly don't know when magic is gotten. I'm not that familiar with the adault route.
Edit:
I read up on the adault route and you can only get magic at the end of the route, since you have to RBA ZL with the saw.
But you need to get the shield at the beginning of adault or as a kid. Otherwise travel is going to be super slow. So the two don't have anything to do with eachother.
Btw. what's the problem with getting bugs as an adault behind the skulltulla house?
Yeah you fail too :p
Gruz is conservative as always. Even to the fishing pond Zoras river should be slightly faster.
And silver scale is way faster. Can we just move on now?
If you've ever speedrunned OoT you would know that descending ZR is significantly faster than taking the owl, assuming you've just obtained the bottle from King Zora.
Well ok then if you say it takes too long, golden scale is out.
That would mean the silver scale route...
Well at least the diving game gives you 25r. Combined with the 40r from the bridge and a little bit extra that would be enough to buy the Hylia Shield.
@Synx
Afaik it has been proven a long time ago that the Kakariko bottle is slower than the Zora bottle, even with golden scale...
Ofcourse it's hard to know, since the people who want to TAS this game are pretty silent. But from what I've heard they tested it out and Ruto-bottle was faster.
Edit:
Hmm to get the rupees for the shield you could just play a second diving game. You are up there to get the silver scale anyway. The Zora actually throws red and pink rupees in the water. I got him up to 3 red, but maybe he throws even more. Maybe even 2 pink and one red are possible. Now manipulate them that they land close together and you have all the money you could want.
Edit2: He actually throws orange rupees if you are lucky (or manipulate the luck). :D So that ofcourse maxes out your wallet and will be more than enough to buy the shield. ^^
Maybe you can even get it thrown close to the warp to Lake Hylia, so that you can do both in one dive.
Edit3: Ofcourse you also get about 22r from swimming down ZR, you still have 25r from the first diving game and you could get 40r from the castle town draw bridge. I honestly don't know what would be faster... Bridge or a second diving game...
A while ago we did a test run where we got the sword and used ESS to escape Kokiri. Sidehopped to Lake Hylia, got the golden scale and obtained the bottle and headed down Zora's River (after speaking to King Zora). It became dawn when we were halfway down ZR. Because of this I don't see how obtaining the golden scale is worthwhile, after all the distances in Lake Hylia and Zora's river is massive. I think it's best just to get the silver scale. The only question is where bugs will be obtained. Is there any good spots in ZR? If not it will either have to be obtained in the graveyard or in a grotto as AL.
Then why would you go down Zoras River anyway? If you don't have to wait for dawn the best bet is the owl. It's right there and takes you straight to the market. With it golden scale should be quickest. Remember this time you will get the shield and thus will be able to super slide.
So the golden scale route should look like this:
- get sword, shield and stick (-50r)
- old forest escape
- peahat SS to ZR
- buy magic bean (-60r)
- through hyrule field to lake hylia (I hope you can make it to the peahat before night)
- get golden scale (-80r)
- get ruto bottle
- get real bottle from king zora
- go back to lake hylia through the warp
- plant bean
- fly with the owl to castle town
- buy the hylia shield (-160r) and travel foreward in time
But I can see that silver scale would be back in. Still, golden scale is still an option and I think it would probably kick silver scales ass.
And again if it get's dawn with both options pretty close after obtaining, which it probably will, owl should always be faster than making your way manually.
Btw. wouldn't it be enough to get the bugs as an adault in Kakariko?
What I'd like to see is calculations. It looks like the silver scale route has been ditched, though I haven't seen a post that clearly explains why.
Simple:
As far as I understand even with getting the magic bean we will still have to wait quite a long time for dawn. That means we have to avoid areas where time doesn't move at all costs, since those would prolong the wait. ZD is one of these areas and getting the silver scale would keep us quite a while in it.
The golden scale on the other hand only keeps us in the fishing pond for a short time and for most of the part in lake hylia, where time actually progresses.
Afaik the ruto bottle has been proven to be faster than the Kakariko bottle, so this is the only route that remains.
Though I would also really like to hear from the guys actually doing the TAS, what they think about these routes.
You guys really don't want to hear half way through the TAS that soemthing with your route is wrong. Swordless can tell you how much that sucks. ;)
Kuwaga wrote:
I thought we were waiting for the owl to fly us to the marketplace?
That was under debate the last time I checked. I think wha speaks for the owl is tht when it drops you off the draw bridge is alreay fuly lowered. What speaks against it is the talking to it and the short flying cutscene.
Don't know what testing revealed about it...
So we still have to waste game time? In that case this route should be quickest:
- get sword, shield and stick (-50r)
- old forest escape
- peahat SS to ZR
- buy magic bean (-60r)
- through hyrule field to lake hylia (I hope you can make it to the peahat before night)
now there are two possibilities:
1:
- plant bean
- get golden scale (-80r)
- get ruto bottle
- get real bottle from king zora
- swim down ZR and get to castle town through hyrule field
2:
- get golden scale (-80r)
- get ruto bottle
- get real bottle from king zora
- go back to lake hylia through the warp
- plant bean
- fly with the owl to castle town
then buy the hylia shield (-160r) and travel foreward in time.
All other routes would keep you too long in ZD where time doesn't progress, so this is the only way to go. Where you get all the extra rupees that are needed for this, I don't know. That's your job to figure out. ;P
PS: If the GC-version really has less lag you should use it. It's not like people won't believe you, that you could have bested Guanos run without it. ;) Now is the time to change roms.
Edit: Afaik ruto bottle has been proven to be faster than Kakariko bottle, even with the time getting golden scale adds (even with the extra fishermens text as adault). Since it's only game time that matters that shouldn't change with this route.
The programmers would have been really stupid if they made it that easy. Less than 4 giants can't hold the moon. End of story.
And yes we know that Deku Water umps are faster if you do them out of a spin. But out of a sidehop is even a little bit faster than that, so that is used in the TAS.
For guns i was thinking the magnum, but i recall now its just for chris lol, btw, why you didnt played chris ?!? he SOOOOO much more awesome (geek jk)
My main reason to choose chris would have be the difficulty is sayd "harder" with him
He has less inventory space and no lockpick, so the run would take a lot longer with Chris, I presume.
But what about my Tyrant rocket launcher question?
@Fladdermus
Yeah ofcourse you would need to ask before making a run, if TASvideos will publish it as a "good ending"-run, so that you can't be obsoleted by somebody, just doing the run with the bad ending. But I'm pretty sure that they would say yes, as it is a clearly defined goal and would make the run more interesting.
Grunz and I talked about potential child routes and we think this might be fastest:
- go to ZR, buy magic beans
- climb zoras river with cuco and enter zoras domain
- get silver scale
- swim through warp to lake hylia
- plant bean
- get ruto bottle
- swim back through warp to ZD
- get real bottle from king zora
- swim down ZR to castle town
What do you guys think?
Btw. if you have planed something else you should really post that route here as well. It took us forever to get the MM route right and we never would have made it if that route hadn't been open in the thread. Grunz, a few others and I would have never seen it and it wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today.
It has been a long time since I played RE but can't you just let the Tyrant be and kill him later on the Heli-pad with the rocket launcher? Since you can skip cutscenes in this version that should be faster and a lot more fun.
I also think that you should have saved Chris and Barry.
This cutsceneless RE run is pretty boring in itself. Let's spice it up a little by at least getting these two.
Voting "no" for the time being. But I would vote yes for a good ending run.
yeah, hookshot skip now
now everything left to do is figuring out, which bottle we should get as child and when we get the magic beans and then a new run can be started ;)
Btw. it's not like this comes as a suprise to us.
Jijos route is heavily based on our TAS-route and we helped him planing here and there. We also saw this run when it was being made, through live streaming. ;)
