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Decided to try and TAS this game, I know there's one already in the makings for Any%, currently I just want to do Glitchless and see how fast it can really be with a bit of the RTA route (mostly ignoring the mushrooms more than RTA does because it wastes too much time in TAS especially Glitchless, otherwise the same in terms of gear/what & when), I spent about 6-8 hours or so today to do the entire section up to the end of Koopa Cruiser.
https://youtu.be/3TW3noDnptY
Point of this video is to ask if there's anything I am doing wrong and to ask: is it good or at least decent up to this point?
I know I could have included the ledge boosts at the end of the movie and not stop where I did, but I was tired and wasn't thinking ahead atm (it's 12:20am at the time of writing this x.x).
I'm pretty sure I should be a couple frames faster than the old 2012 TAS, mostly because your lua script helps a lot (@Mugg) with movement. I know for sure I saved time with Toad movement and after Mario's photo but before Luigi's photo (with switching Brothers)
BK2 file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/48605273643055680
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MUGG wrote:
I'm surprised this game has got TASers besides me.
@Amy,
I feel conflicted if that Peach skip should be allowed. It's not a true glitch, just an exploit with the text getting cleared faster than was thought possible by the devs. As a side note, MrShasta managed to trigger a similar bug in his glitchless run. Since it hasn't been decided in the RTA community, it's probably something that can be left up to the TASer if they want to include it or not.
You said you reached 11 minutes into the game? I'd be interested seeing that WIP, maybe we can work together.
I think SkyToast also worked on a Glitchless TAS, I think he finished up to Hoohooros maybe. Also, about the Peach one, when I was originally trying to do a (SUPER) rough route for a Glitchless TAS I was debating to myself whether or not I'd to the skip and ended up deciding not to do it. Lastly, I do wanna include that I did use VBA-Next myself in my own WIP but I'll upload it tomorrow morning my time, you'll probably see it in User files or something, in about 11 hours, 12 at most.
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Extremely slow mashing at some points (for a TAS), takes you a second sometimes to just select an attack. Sometimes you have really weird movement, and at the beginning for example you randomly stopped. You didn't optimize the item-routing: you got Mushrooms in TOAD TOWN. Especially for a TAS, that is very bad. I'm watching the TAS, some parts sped up and some not. I noticed at some points you could have jumped up stairs but you didn't.
A lot of it really felt slow and bad.
Sorry, no vote. Could save at least 10 minutes to proper TASing alone. I estimate sub 3 hours is possible in Glitchless, and 3:15 is not exactly the best time. That being said, it still is the fastest recorded run, but it could be much better. Definitely a no vote.
Edit:
Another BIG thing:
You used Auto-Fire for text.
I can guarantee you, you lose at least a whole minute in the TAS because of that. Auto Firing is sub-optimal in this game with text, as goes:
Frame 1 - A (Advance Text Bubble)
Frame 2 -
Frame 3 -
Frame 4 - A (Finish Text Bubble)
Pressing A on Frame 3 doesn't do anything, so by auto-firing, you:
Frame 1 - A (Advance Text Bubble)
Frame 2 -
Frame 3 - A (Does nothing)
Frame 4 -
Frame 5 - A (Finish Text Bubble)
As you can see, you are losing a frame each text bubble this way. There are some where auto-firing CAN work, but such a case is rare by my experiences. So, with that being said, you lose maybe over a minute because of this. Probably 2+ if I'm being realistic.
Lastly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8FEaN9g0SQ
(Straight from your TAS ^)
Isn't this a skip? Abusing extremely fast mashing, in fact if you return here with this skip, the cutscene repeats but is glitched. So...Not as glitchless as you may think. :D Just thought I'd let you know this.
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I don't really want to be mean but...How did you make the TAS? 8,000 rerecords seems VERY odd for this length. Especially for a Mario & Luigi game which tends to be pretty technical, both glitchless and glitched.
For a comparison, I took 2184 rerecords for the first eleven minutes.
I'll be watching this today or tomorrow probably (or Saturday at most). I'll use LiveSplit to compare to RTA World Record while I'm at it. I'm quite curious how this TAS was made. Gives me a comparison to my future TAS, I guess...?
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Meme submission. I like it. I totally agree with the post south of me.
Someone please give the maker an applause. You beat WR by over negative a minute which is pretty impressive!
(In all honesty I probably couldn't do that RTA, sub 6 minutes, but next time read the Guidelines thing please?
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Wait so if there's a 1gba TAS published and a 3gba TAS maybe/probably to get published (Referring to RSY)....I should work on 2gba. Maybe I will considering I know 2gba well enough for that. Actually I was planning on submitting a April Fools TAS for 2gba for 2018 but I'ma look into 102 cuz i love 102.
I love you, SDTM~
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Oh yeah btw emulator runs the game inaccurately (emulates lag incorrectly), the actual cartridge on actual console is laggier than what the emulator runs it at. Like, a lot laggier. Idk if it's a problem for the site but it would make it impossible to play the movie back on actual console
Also, it's possible to finish 2-1 way faster.
Defeat every single enemy faster = can save like 10 seconds in TAS just in 2-1 alone.
(I noticed you didn't defeat all enemies asap at 3:50)
Otherwise a really good WIP. (:
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zoboner wrote:
Amy wrote:
Actually, in the past I've found it easier to route 100% over Any% (or, what I like to call it, "True Ending"). In Any% you need to hesitate, "which people to go for and which not?", while in 100% you simply go for everyone, and it makes it easier to route, for me. Maybe I'll post my RTA route sometime next week, if you'd like. (Would need to write it down) Although the route is for Easy Mode, it would work just as well for Normal Mode I'm pretty sure.
"Any%" route planning is very easy, when you know in advance how to manage the power points, and for this I did a lot of try, with RAM addresses (all of "power points" addresses) tested on boss fights and numerous part of game, to permit me a best analysis of "power points" management, after, when you know all of this information, then game is a simple "beat 'm all" where you have must search to finish the level quickly, and to reach game ending.
In "100%" branch it's more hardest to choose the power you want upgrade , because you must to save all of characters, who give 1 "power point" and you have a difficult choice to do!
For ex: in level 3, you must fight BIG-X in "100%", then that you skip this fight in "any%", this who complicate "power points" management, because you are obliged to act compared with all of additional bosses, that you go meet.
In some spots (ex: BIG-X lvl), you must doing a choice: to make a detour for take "power points" and kill BIG-X more quickly or kill BIG-X slowly but don't make a detour! but for instant, I don't have try this solution, maybe it's not possible!
For know which solution is more fast, you must try all of them, and believe me, for make a perfect route planning it's lot of hardest than "any%" branch!
Thank for your vision & knowledge of this run.
Big X takes a hit or two less without the detour. "To know which solution is faster, you must try all of them", well, sometimes it's kind of obvious to know what's faster and is not faster. You only do 1-2 extra damage per Power increasement, so after maybe 5 hits you did 6 hit and Big X took me about 15 hits I think (don't remember it). Okay, I agree for this case it's better to try out both, but it's not always necessary to try 2 or more solutions (if it's obvious) :P
About Normal Vs Hard mode, I was thinking about it yesterday night and I did realize that I let the most important part slide past me, the optimization in fights is harder in Hard Mode. Just...do Hard mode, better off this way.
In general, I wish you luck with the TAS. <3
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zoboner wrote:
And, if you think this game is repetitive, I answer to you simply, where is entertainment when you use the same strategies to beat the game fast, because indeed, to kill enemies in normal mode, you use laser, move to new screen, laser, move to n... ect!
Actually, Normal Mode is much harder than Easy Mode. Easy Mode is repetitive, but Hard Mode is just as repetitive as Easy Mode. Normal Mode is most balanced. You only have 5 EX uses, and you can NOT go over 5. In Hard Mode you have 3 EX uses, and you can NOT go over 3. Hard Mode is, while more impressive to those who are EXPERIENCED with the game, more boring to the general audience than Normal Mode. Normal Mode is a balance between Easy & Hard Mode, and is certainly the least repetitive mode.
Easy Mode uses EX moves too much, Hard Mode takes too long with certain bosses. Normal Mode has a balance between EX moves and normal attacks. Unlike Easy Mode, the EX gauge does NOT fill up with EX attacks, so EX moves aren't as repetitive as Easy Mode, whilst you have more of a balance so normal attacks don't always have to be used compared to Hard Mode. All in all, I think Normal Mode would actually have more entertainment than Hard Mode.
zoboner wrote:
No,in "100%" it isn't the same route, it have some differences and more boss fights, I think "100%" is more interesting than "any%", because it is more difficult to choose a good route planning and have the best inventory gestion (power) to beat the game fast.
Actually, in the past I've found it easier to route 100% over Any% (or, what I like to call it, "True Ending"). In Any% you need to hesitate, "which people to go for and which not?", while in 100% you simply go for everyone, and it makes it easier to route, for me. Maybe I'll post my RTA route sometime next week, if you'd like. (Would need to write it down) Although the route is for Easy Mode, it would work just as well for Normal Mode I'm pretty sure.
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zoboner wrote:
Hi,
I work actually on this game for "any%" and "100%" branch. This is a first WIP for "any%" playing on hard difficulty: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/40427458929885725
Thank to Kurabupengin for his commentary.
30 seconds in and I notice you didn't know about a little trick that can save about maybe 20 seconds overall in 100%.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/336960190735843329/337567731606093825/Faster.gif
Basically, when an enemy wave ends, you'd jump and dash. It ends the wave earlier and lets you move to the next screen earlier. I did not do it very optimally in the gif there but I managed to save 5 frames from this alone. So...hope that helps :)
Although besides the little time saver, you did quite a good job on stage 1. I wish you luck with the TAS.
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Saw it live, albeit not all due to personal reasons, and from what I saw (about 2/3rd of the TAS), I definitely loved it.
I must say I'm surprised it's lower than the MLSS segmented glitchless run on SDA. Maybe I'll work on the TAS I was making (Glitchless MLSS), but either way, DEFINITELY a yes vote. I'm proud of you. <3
Edit:
Another thing, I love the submission text. Read all, took 45 minutes. :P
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I guess I'll post it here. So, to talk about a TAS of this game...I have a couple problems.
First off, lag. The game doesn't emulate lag correctly and it would be impossible to playback an input file on TASbot; the game lags so much less on emulator while on the actual GBA it's pretty laggy. So I'm wondering if it would be okay if I did a TAS of this even though it's much smoother than the game on actual Hardware? I know the last submission was pretty accurate but truly, I couldn't do a TAS without TAStudio with my keyboard because of keyboard ghosting, and I'd rather stick to Bizhawk. Plus I don't even know how they did it.
Another thing I'd like to ask is about categories. This game is repetitive. You play the first half, then the second half, then the last part. The first and second is almost the exact same. It would be a very good TAS game if we do both. If we do both it definitely requires more optimization, despite the fact it may be more boring. So I was wondering if I should do the Birth section or no? IMO it would be far more entertaining if we could just skip to the second half of the game.
If I should do the Birth section anyways, I would probably do 100% instead of Any% instead (I am not the best at optimizing, 100% is far easier to optimise than Any%), so my question is:
Any% that starts at the second half of the game? (Would start from SaveRAM, not Save State)
orrrrrr
100% that starts at the beginning?
Also, referring to an exploit that I found.
CatlyNat wrote:
Also, another exploit.
If you jump when the screen is about to scroll, you use the jet on the first possible frame that will not bump you into the wall. However, instead of doing that, you do something else.
You jump, and while your in the air, you can use the jet 2-5 frames earlier than normal without bumping on the wall, thus saving a couple frames. Though you need at least a level 1 jet, or else you may be wasting time.
I thought this is TAS only, but I found out you can intentionally waste time while the screen is scrolling to the right. Enemy waves spawn on Camera Position, not on Player Position. The camera can take time to catch up to you, thus as long as the camera doesn't stop moving, you don't lose time. Since the enemies despawn earlier than intended by jumping and putting the camera as high as possible, you usually save time. I don't know exactly how much time, but at least half a second each wave, which is a lot for a TAS. Current Birth% TAS that was rejected can definitely save at least 10 seconds. (30-40 seconds because NTSC-J is wayy faster than NTSC-U)
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TASVideos Grue wrote:
om, nom, nom... om, nom, nom... nom nom
And this, my friend, is why you don't spend your time doing TASes of games for 4 years old little girls. Makes me wonder, did anyone even buy the game? DansGame
...I'm going to go focus on Astro Boy again. At least he doesn't suck.
One final thing message.
Dear Dora Luss,
This letter has been arrived from Belgium, written by the ugliest woman on Earth named (redacted). The letter said: "I would like to say that you are even uglier than me, and I hope no one will run this game again. The fact someone other than me ran the game in June 2016 is shocking either way. Please delete your game from existence. Never will I touch your game again."
Written on 30/6/16 21:34. This is an automated e-mail. Please do not reply to this.
My next appearance on this site other than lurky lurk lurk or voting will be in a year when I actually submit a good TAS. 'Till then 4Head
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http://www.mediafire.com/download/4zyq9ojrb2o0515/GBA+DTE-DWA+TAS+ANY%25.zip
Improved the TAS by 2 frames (I went back and checked for lag frames. Oh look, pressing up in one of the autoscroller wastes time so I have to be careful pressing up >_>)
Also SLIGHTLY changed the Ski Autoscroller. Probably won't be noticed. I didn't know where to upload the zip, or where to even say this, because I'm still a Noob, but could the input file be replaced? ._.
Also recorded a new video for the 2 small frames being saved lol
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mklip2001 wrote:
(I do wish you had managed to move to the music at one point there.)
I would have done it if two conditions met; if I had a little more control of the vehicles, and if I actually thought of doing it. Would have tried if I thought of doing it, I used to try it a lot in RTA ending up in me bumping and then wasting 2 seconds ;~;
@Everyone
Thanks for the feedback~ Really makes me realize I should focus on another TAS, instead of wasting my time on such garbage game. Eh, the game was fun while it lasted. I'm done with this. Though my RTA PB is flat 12:30 not sub so I still have some stuff to do >_< man I need to run good games.
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The forums have spoken. My question is, why does this horrible game exist? Would any child even enjoy playing this? All you do is collect things, and that is already super boring. Even an actual 4 years old child could probably complete the game in under 13 minutes if they tried. This game is clearly bad. Well at least I now know what the best possible time ever is. Makes me wonder, who pressed yes? DansGame
EgixBacon wrote:
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Doc Skellington wrote:
Well, I'm glad that you've got energy to TAS ;). Can we just know which game you're going to TAS ? (I mean, you're "hyping" (is it a verb?) me :p )
Anyway, good luck with your work! And thanks for your cheering!
Well since you asked, I might do a TAS of Madagascar - Operation Penguin.
Problem is, I never actually tried to go for 100% and I've only done one run of the game (which used a cheat code... wow I'm a cheater)
I don't think I'll be sticking to my TAS but I'll try to do one at least. But all the levels are so short and then there is this one levels that can take 5 minutes even in TAS... And I don't know that level very well... I will now shut up about the game because it isn't the appropriate game thread to talk about and I don't feel like making a thread for it.
meow :T
I look forward to seeing your finished* TAS
My post wasn't clear about which TAS I was looking forward to.
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https://www.mediafire.com/?9fdepadmxrguzqe
That is me doing a 96 exits run on Super Mario World, USA version.
Funny enough, it started out as Casual but ended as speedrunning.
I PB'd by like 1h 20m with this run lol. My time here is 2h 30m, and my mother needed my help so after the Yellow Switch Palace I was inactive for like 20/30m.
I also submitted my time to speedrun.com lol.
Edit:
By the way, I couldn't record the run sadly...
Edit 2:
I'd also like to say that one day I will go to Chocolate Island and eat the whole Island, after that swim down to Sunken Ghost Ship, get to Bowser's Valley, and torture every single enemy in that valley and repeatedly shoot Bowser in his head with a bazooka.
I ***ing HATE Chocolate Island & Valley of Bowser. I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE THOSE TWO WORLDS...
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Interesting...
I never thought about this game, and it looks interesting to TAS.
You're actually encouraging me to redo a TAS I am planning and do 100% instead. Though I'd rather finish my test TAS first. (Not a TAS for this game, and since this isn't the appropriate game to talk about I'd rather hush about my TAS)
I look forward to the finished TAS. :3
Edit:
wow. Seeing that is just amazing. This is going to be an awesome TAS, I believe that.
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xy2_ wrote:
I vote for a 'normal' 100%. The way to do 100% as you said would be quite boring to watch.
True, I understand why it would be boring.
Also (to everyone who reads this & my previous post), I found out why you can scroll to the right much faster by jumping.
The enemies go off-screen faster thus the screen scrolling will take place sooner.
Heh, that's a pretty neat find. You can skip a lot of time with this and would be extremely useful for RTA, it truly is useful. It can skip at least a minute since it takes seconds for the enemies go off-screen and there are a lot of cases the screen scrolls upwards but not sideways.
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Maur wrote:
Don't ever put points in sensors, btw. You don't need em.
Sensors reduces lag in Stage 3-3. By a lot. And you need Sensor level 2 for that.
Sensor level 3 is required to beat the whole game, too. So getting Sensor soon in the game is a good idea, and Sensor level 3 in Rebirth.
Sorry for bump, by the way.
But I'm planning on doing a TAS and it's official (I hope) that I'll do a TAS of this game seeing that this game is number 2 on my Top billion (or any number higher than 1) favourite game list, of all time.
I love this game so much that I just HAVE to do a TAS. This game is a close second to my favourite game of all time (which is Super Mario World lol).
However, I have a question;
would it be okay if I did a TAS that does a true 100%? What I mean with "true" is this:
Every single person that can possibly be in your Omega Factor needs to be in your Omega Factor one at least on file;
Every... EVERY</u> single Event needs to be unlocked on the Even Test (which requires me to play through the game at least twice. I can only think of few places which would be required to do on first playthrough and then differently on second playthrough.)
Or, in other words, every thing that can be collected must be collected for a true 100%.
Would something like this be allowed? Or should I just do a normal 100%?
It WILL require a lot of optimization for this and I'll try the best I can; though I'm still new to TASing. :P
Again, sorry for bump.
Edit:
Actually, I changed my mind. I'll do a normal 100%, on Hard Mode. What I mentioned would be boring to watch, though I may do what I mentioned one day. But an answer would still be nice and I'll patiently wait for an answer unless it has been 2 months and no one replied.
Edit 2:
Oh, and I found a couple exploits that could be useful for TASing. Two of them is useful for Magnamite (1-5 Boss), the other one is useful for instantly stopping at any time on land while dashing.
The Magnamites ones, you can beat him much faster using the AB+D combination while he does the normal attacks.
The other one, when Magnamite is about to jump up, you do the AB+R combination if he's east of you (right) or the AB+L when he's west of you (left). This will pull you upwards as you damage him use the jet EX power against him, then ones there's no space for you to be up there you'll be pulled below him and your attack ends; you don't receive damage.
Then, you stay in spot and as he is about to jump on you, you jump. You jump below him, and you use the AB+D combination to use the jet EX power below him, and you are going to go below him while damaging him. Once you reach the ground, he goes to the ground and jumped on you, but you don't receive damage. You are still dashing through him right now, and then you defeat him.
That is the quickest way to defeat him in Easy mode, from what I'm aware of.
The other exploit I found is useful in some cases.
While you are dashing to the right, you press D+L+B in order to kick to the left. You will stop your speed. While dashing to the left you would kick to the right instead.
Edit 3:
Also, another exploit.
If you jump when the screen is about to scroll, you use the jet on the first possible frame that will not bump you into the wall. However, instead of doing that, you do something else.
You jump, and while your in the air, you can use the jet 2-5 frames earlier than normal without bumping on the wall, thus saving a couple frames. Though you need at least a level 1 jet, or else you may be wasting time.
I wonder how many things that may be useful I'll be able to find.
Edit 4: removed section of this post, realized that one of them is completely useless and wrong. Sadly.
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I'll do a No Starworld/No Cape and when I'm done with that I'll hopefully be used to Bizhawk (I'm currently doing Yoshi's Island 4), then I'll redo a no kill run and try to make it as good as possible.
Again, I'll TRY, that does not mean I'll do good. Yes, I am using Frame Advance for the whole level this time.
But one thing is for sure: my second try will be faster, better and hopefully more entertaining. I've always wanted to TAS and I randomly did this TAS after numerous tries of doing a no kill run in RTA. And then, after that, I took TASing seriously. It's fun to do a TAS but it's pretty hard... But I'll try the hardest I can on the second try of No Kill No Starworld, and also probably rename the category to make it sound right.
My goal with this category I'm doing is probably to make this run faster than the No Starworld WR. And I will not give up (unless No Starworld suddenly gets an INSANE WR.)
