For those who can't view the movie/don't have/can't aquire the rom:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=grKl5qBlg8s
Credits to runner in the description. Sorry about the subpar quality.
I just checked and it turns out the level 17 Onix does indeed have enough of an experience yield to level up Mew to level 10. I'm not sure if 2 normal Water Guns can knock out Onix with max DV's, but one critical hit and a normal hit is enough to do the job. Since you have to pass this Onix anyway, this works out well to give Mew Tnansform.
The pokedoll trick works in red, blue, and yellow.
For the so called "zzazz" glitch, maybe you could try catching two Mews, one for level 100 battling, and one for Transform? I don't know.
If such a thing were possible, to get the level 7 Mew up to level 10, one would battle the Hiker with the three Geodude and Machop. Mew grows to level 10 after defeating the first two Geodudes. I'm not sure about the level 17 Onix since I don't remember its experience gain off the top of my head. Either TM 12 in Mount Moon or TM 11 from Misty should suffice for this.
I'm not sure if it's viable. It's just a thought I had.
Just note that not all Pokémon can be experience underflowed. Only Pokémon who need 48 experience points to reach level 3 from level 2 are candidates for experience underflowing.
I must say this accually looks pretty good even though Mew was glitched to level 100.
Trainer: "One day, I end up in the mind of a 10 year old Pokemon trainer. A little while later, I discover some insane glitches that make I, I, able to beat the game in sub 1 hour and 20 Minutes."
With such insanity as Mew pummels through the second half of the game, I can understand why almost everybody has voted yes. This includes me as well. Great work!
May you go on to complete bigger and better things.
Which is faster, getting poisoned by Hypno, leaving Fuchsia City, having Erika's Pokémon give you a beating, finish WTW-ing, and saving Koga for the second WTW, or doing it the way you did it in the WIP, find a Grimer/Koffing in Cinnabar Island Mansion to poison you, and finish doing what you have to do?
I was thinking about Fire Blast for the Onix's, bit I didn't think it would one hit KO Rhydon with a critical hit.
You are very right about the hero name thing. I even mentioned that in an earlier post of mine.
Excerpt from page 30:
SpeedRun Lover wrote:
I understand the point of using your runner name for the trainer name, but naming him one character too also saves time.
How much exactly depends on how many times his name appears in the run. I think using capital I was the best one character choice as well.
With Fire Blast being 5 power points, it is only usable against 5 Pokémon. Who's going to be the last receiver of Fire Blast, or will the last one not be needed?
Would it be possible to WTW and then be able to get into Blane's gym without the key, or would doing that make the run longer? This would save having to go through the entire mansion on foot.
If you can't get Mew to beat the two Onix's, try obtaining the Blizzard TM right by the switch in the mansion. Besides those, you may need to use an SE attack on Rival's Rhydon (too bad Blizzard's a long animation move). I would've suggested Water Gun, but then you'd have to redo more of your run.
Why will Rival not be "nicknamed" this time? Is nicknaming him slower now just like Abra?
Would it be possible to get poisoned by the Hypno, leave Fuchsia Gym, have Erika's Pokémon give Mew a beating, and save Koga's battle for the second WTW (assuming there are enough steps to do Koga, Cinnabar Mansion, and Blane)? If not, randomizing a Grimer in the mansion might be the best option.
For the second WTW, you could do a tour of Celadon City and end your trek over the ledge on Route 7.
Is it required that you save and reset your game at the Safari Zone in order to do the WTW glitch? If not, you could go back into the building, exit into Glitch City, and then fly to Fuchsia City. If this method can be used, it would save about a minute since you wouldn't have to save and reset the game twice.
This means Experience Underflowing Mew no longer makes the run uninteresting making it no longer a debatable tactic (but rather a huge time-saver).
The only big hurdles now are the second WTW, Mew's health meter, and the league.
Is it really faster to get poisoned by Hypno instead of Muk like I saw before? Or was luck manipulation better on Hypno?
To get Mew down to 1 hit point for the second WTW, you would have to get Mew's health down to the same point as when you did the first one. Even though it's an extra battle, there is a second Hypno at Koga's gym where you can get Mew poisoned (Edit: Wait, scrap that; beating Koga means you can't battle this Hypno. Oops.). Or in the mansion, you can find a Weezing at level 42 to poison you, and then either run away, or let Wezing KO itself with Self Destruct. I don't know if either are optimal options, but there worth a shot.
I meant from the point Mew was underflowed, not the end of your WIP which would count for the confusion. I see you realized that battles = trainers. How many trainers does Mew face after Experience Underflow is used anyway (discounting the league)?
It would seem nicknaming Abra is not the best route since its name appears in scrolling text less than 5 times after capture.
Looks like you've tuned the tables by using recoil as an advantageous strategy.
As long as Mew has less than 10 hit points by the time you're warped back to the Safari Zone entrance, it most likely won't be too bad.
I just seen your WIP, and I can say that it's looks very good so far even with Mew experience underflowed. Your run totally throws using Charmander all the way through all the way out the window! With Mew now going through less than 30 battles before the league, Experience Underflow might no longer be a bad move (but rather more beneficial).
Just two questions. Why do you Mew Glitch a third time when the founded Pokémon isn't even caught? (Edit: you can skip this first question. I just realized that you Mew Glitched so that the Snorlax Skip can be used on the one blocking Cycling Road (since Cycling road is the faster way to Fuchsia City))
Even though Abra is only used 2 or 3 times, would nicknaming it be any faster, or would it instead lose time?
How long do you think the run will be when finished? Once this run is done, it will become the fastest run in Pokémon history!
Actually, I have watched the Gyarados run, and it looked excellent. Gyarados only gets a huge advantage thanks to having both Dragon Rage and Hydro Pump at only level 7.
--Some of the things I was thinking with the new glitch findings--
In the new run the Snorlax skip and WTW glitches are going to be used. The only way to Snorlax skip is to Teleport or Fly (with Teleport being the only available option), hence the Abra. A Pokémon for Fly is already obtained in the current run and would still need to be obtained (hence Pidgey or Spearow). Thanks to the Snorlax skip, taking routes 12 through 15 to Fuchsia City is completely workable.
Now that the Super Rod is obtainable, and with only Cut and Surf remaining (and finding a Pokémon who can learn both Cut and Surf other than Mew was tricky), I found the only 2 Pokémon other than Mew capable of doing this task are Krabby (who would have to be level 15) and Tentacool who works much better at level 5.
Why level 5 Tentacool over level 15 Krabby? Simple; if the WTW glitch works with more than one Pokémon, weak Pokémon with low defense and hit points (less than 20 is best) would need to be caught.
I thought that with all the new tricks and findings, maybe Mew glitching the main battler might not be needed anymore.
With that lead to one main problem, WTW. Planning such a run using Charizard as the main battler was looking pretty good until Charizard lost access to Fissure.
Here is some things to consider though.
1. The Charmander line takes more experience to level up than Gyarados
2. And with more experience needed, less level up music will play saving almost 2 1/2 seconds for every level Charizard stalls behind Gyarados
3. Gyarados may be faster early, but requires more Ethers. Hydro Pump is 5 PP and Dragon Rage is 10 while Mega Punch is 20 and Ember is 25 (too bad Ember's weak except on grass and bug) With that, any Ethers found might be able to be saved 'till later
4. Without Fissure, Charizard could learn Submission for Lorelei while Gyarados still has Thunderbolt
5. With WTW, strength now becomes obsolete
6. While Gyarados was fast, it starts at level 7 while Charmander had just enough experience to evolve into Charmeleon, and Charmeleon roughly at the same point has slightly larger stats than Gyarados (though Gyarados is able to play catch up quickly)
7. While Charmeleon would not be able to fight off against Misty's Gym right away, not too much time is lost regardless.
8. Experience Underflow is really a very debatable tactic.
--I know it's a little long; just a lot to say--
With all that said, has Charizard pretty much lost the battle (even if glitching both Gyarados and Mew is taken into account)? I wonder if a run without Mew Glitching the main battler would be allowed to be submitted along side the current run (since Charizard then presents the fastest route)? I'm guessing not, but it doesn't hurt to ask as going through every battle with just the starter is also entertaining to watch.
You know what else makes Gyarados so fast? It doesn't try to learn any moves in battle thus saving a lot of time. Experience Underflowing a Mew possesses the same benefit, but I find that tactic a little controversial.
Ok. With all the battles which Charmander participates in the current run, it is able to reach level 16 and evolve into Charmeleon. With an attack of 31, it is able to 1 hit critical KO Voltorb with Mega Punch, but is it enough to 1 critical hit KO Grimer with the same attack? I know it is possible to 1 hit critical KO Grimer with an attack of 33, but that requires Charmeleon to reach level 17 (all assuming enough IV's in attack and special).
Koffing would need to be 2 hit KO'ed, but it might be off-setted by the fact that Gyarados is not glitched.
2 hits would be required for at least Pidgeotto (both critical), but again, it might turn out all right if we don't glitch a mew. What may further off-set the deal is that backtracking would not be required until the Snorlax skip needs to be performed.
With Charizard as the main battler we would need to pick up:
1. Pidgey or Spearow for Fly (findable on route 3)
2. Abra for teleport (findable just after nugget bridge; Abra can be deposited after the Snorlax skip is performed)
3. TM01 (Mega Punch, required to 1 hit critical KO Grimer and Voltorb)
4. Super Rod (collectable prior to going to Fuchsia City)
5. Tentacool for Cut and Surf (level 5 with Super Rod)
I'm trying to think of a good moveset for Charizard to have from beginning to teh league. I know its first 4 moves will automatically be learned as well as Mega Punch and Dig through TM's. It will also learn Slash at level 33, and Fire Blast after Blane (since it won't reach level 46 by the league). I'm trying to think of a good final move since Fissure won't be obtained. I was thinking of Submission, but then Charizard suffers recoil damage (but might be worth it if it can 1 or 2 hit KO's Lorelei's Pokemon).
Just note that a star you can get coinless should be the last one you collect on each floor of the castle. For example, Peach's Slide works great as a last star for the lobby.
That would require testing...
I would assume it could be done with more than 1 Pokémon, but like you said, the others would have to faint (and can stay fainted).
I realized that with your run, the only HM's required are Cut, Fly, and Surf, the second learnable by a Pidgey, and the other 2 can be taught to a Tentacool now that the Super Rod is accessible.
Now the only thing is, can it all be done with Charmander/Charizard as the main battle Pokémon since Fissure won't be learned?
Your glitches work out in improving the current TAS run. However, seeing the entire competition being blown away by a level 100 Pokémon is not as interesting as seeing it done through pure skill.
However, with your run, strength is entirely skipable saving a little time.
How does the guard not ask about the Earth badge? I don't get it...
Too bad Charizard only learns Fly in Yellow or else it could be used as a possible flyer for the first WTW glitch.
Why does WTW require you to have only one Pokémon anyway? Nobody has explained that yet.
As somewhat of a purist, I must say that imho the only two runs that should be accepted are the 1 star and 120 star runs (excluding CCCless, which is cool because it has a far-and-away different objective).
To me, a 70 star run of any kind has no meaning. 70 stars is the amount required to beat the game without abusing it. However, since these runs are all TASes already, there is no way to define an abuseless run that still conforms to TAS quality - nor would such a run be desirable to make or watch.
The other reason - which is probably better - is that a speedrun should go for game completion given concrete goals in the fastest time possible. So the fastest time to beat the game involves getting a single star. The fastest time to beat the game to full completion involves getting 120 stars. 70 stars is neither the fastest route nor a full completion.
Trying to define categories for TASes that 'lack abuse' goes against their fundamental nature imho.
This is what they would call a "minimum intendedly required" run.
A TAS run of 70 stars should be made (though it doesn't necessarily have to be publicized). It would not only show the best routes, but the runners over at SDA sometimes use the runs published here to plan their own runs (as well as future break previous run records).
Regarding the 120 star run, is it possible that time could be saved by finding a more optimized route in star collection? Or even a more optomized route for getting each star?
Perhaps, but a level 100 Pokémon run doesn't look very interesting. It's better when the runner has to do it entirely on skill. Or would this just be until you could glitch a Mew?
Here's something. Mew can learn both Fissure and Horn Drill for one hit KO's at the league (assuming Mew's speed is enough to outrun all those Pokémon by then). Charizard can also learn Fissure. Nidoking/Nidoqueen can also one hit KO with Horn Drill.
Wait, what if you didn't have to Mew Glitch? Are there enough mandatory battles that if you were to entirely use Charmander, it would be able to reach a high enough level in which it would be able to 2 hit KO Misty's Pokémon?
Other Advantages:
1. Charizard would entirely burn through Erika's team
2. All the plants on route 9 and through Rock Tunnel would all get KO'ed by Ember
3. Charizard can learn Dig to get through the rock types around there too (as well as all poison types)
4. By the League, Charizard would be fast enough to Fissure most Pokémon (Only Golbat, Aerodatyl, Dragonite, and Pidgeot can't be Fissured)
Disadvantages:
1. Charizard can't learn Surf like Gyarados can (but you can catch Snorlax for Surf/Strength)
2. A few of the early battles might take a bit longer, but that might just get off setted by the league
3. Dig takes two turns to use (but you don't have to luck manipulate a miss the turn you're digging)
4. Without Ice Beam and Surf, Charizard can't beat Dragonite with one hit (don't know about Aerodatyl; it would depend on Charizard's Special)
Other points of interest:
1. Even nicknaming Pokémon you tend to use as HM users still saves a little time in the long run
2. I understand the point of using your runner name for the trainer name, but naming him one character too also saves time
3. The less Pokémon you have to catch (preferably no more than 3) saves quite a bit of time as well
4. Straight one hit KO's in the league (where possible) is generally the fastest route (plus the more one hit KO's you have, the more time you save)
There are more for Advantages, Disadvantages, and Time Savers, but I can't think of any right now.
BLJ-ing to certain points might also work in Whomp's Fortress. Right around the point where the runner just goes all up to beat Whomp, there are a few stairs which could possibly be BLJ-ed. I don't know if it's useful, but it doesn't hurt to experiment.
Which do you think is faster? BLJ-ing to the first Bowser, getting the key, going back, getting the rest of the stars, then going to basement, or is it better to leave him till later?
Well, with BLJ-ing, you can get to King Bomb-omb within 15 seconds...
Plus, you can get into the cannon under the island that way.
Koopa the Quick will always take 1 minute 20 seconds regardless...
Could possibly BLJ to get some red coins faster. (preferably the one by the black balls along with the 100 coin star along the way)
Assuming the canon's faster than the wing cap to the secrets, you could BLJ into the canon under the island again.
If BLJ-ing into Chain Chomp's gate is possible, that might save 3 or 4 seconds.
And this is just BOB we're talking about. Assuming all tricks work out right, that would be... how many seconds faster?
Now if only there was a way to BLJ from the steps to the 50 star door all the way to the Bowser stage. At least 5 seconds could be saved if such a thing were acually exploitable.
How come there is no 70-star run? Such a run is still entertaining, and it would be nice to see how fast it would take to collect 70 different stars and go and beat Bowser.
With all these new glitches coming up these past few months, a full 120-star run could easily be improved by well over 5 minutes.
Here's a question. With the new BLJ tricks coming to surface, would it accually be faster to collect the Bowser keys first, and then do the rest of the run as normal?