You could do a two player run with it. Either kill off one of the players right before you do it or both die and gain a life. You get to keep one of your guns I assume so if you can get both players to enough points in time then it'd be nice to to both do, not to mention that you'll have another player. If points for both is a problem then just continue with 1 player and do the rest with him or die and continue with both players. The continue might be faster because of time saved on level 5 with two players.
I'll look at one of the previous runs and see how many points are available. I know you can get a ton from certain badies if you kill them and they'd be quick to kill too.
We need to know at how many points each extra life is given, it looks like the first one is really quick.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I'm on the verge of something big here. On the course loops of the second ciruit, I've come within 1 block of making it past the containment zipper at the very start. I think if you can make it past it you will be able to fall all the way to the end of the course or at least skip the first 2/3s of it.
What did was jump after going down the first hill a little ways then do a TtFR3T, release right untill near the end of the track then hold right and jump. Then I did some fiddling around with how you want to land to skip the furthest ahead.
having your head touch first and as far to the right is good. But I found something a little better, if you put your head down more like 60* instead of 10*, then go into a table top, then come out of the table top right as you land. There might be an ever better way to land to get further so I enourage people try on their own and maybe we'll find something.
Another way to get further would be to have more speed. The speed address doesn't seem to accurately show your speed it's quite strage how it will jump from 200 to 30 all the time with no significant change.
I need to know how boosts affect your speed. It seems like you don't start going faster untill the trick is displayed on screen and you build speed as is goes through all the tricks you did (Tt,.. F,.. R and so on). Will your peak speed be any higher if you do 4F instead of TtFRTZ or how is your peak speed determined?
Is there any way to affect your speed in the air after you do a manual jump? The speed adress always varies in the air but I don't see why other than if it counts your Y-component too.
Here's a pick of how close I got:
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I was able to get a 24.02
I did the better half loops tricks. In order to get the big jump on the last jump I found the key was to not pass 15 on screen position untill just before the jump. I think what this does is make your boost last longer so when you go off the jump your still in the boost.
Also I didn't tap right on the frame before jump to do a twist. I found it was faster to do less twists and not get slowed down by this.
I think you might want to stay in the 15-175 position for other situations, like when your going up a hill and can't do other tricks. Also I think this applys to dragster as well.
How did you stay below 175 in dragster? I think once you pass 175 you should keep doing tricks, then you could pass 175 sooner.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
See? Now do you understand why I wanted to know what time you got? That's why I always say "Bigger boost doesn't always mean faster time". Will you stop arguing on this point now? :)
I know it isn't always better as it can affect later jumps. But if the boost doesn't affect anything and then wears off and your further ahead I don't see how that isn't faster.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
C'mon Z do a run. any% would be quick and you could prolly beat it by 3 seconds or more. Or 100% would be great too, but that's like 5 times longer and more dense with hard to optimized parts.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I'm trying to figure out how you went so far on the last jump. I can't seem to replicate it. Even doing a TtFT on the last half loop doesn't get you as far. When I try F2T like you did it doesn't work either. I guess I'll take a look at the speed memory adress or something. What are they btw? Maybe I can figure out what's going on here, but it's quite strange.
I was wondering if it's possible to delay your boost other than jumping that would be very useful through out the game if possible.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Are you going to do brood war too? What has been done so far?
For SCZ08 you can do a strat where send kerrigen to the bottom left nexus and everything else to the other one and kill them at the same time. Takes less than 2 minutes I think. The problem is that kerrigen hardly ever survives and you have to make 2 really hard psi storms on their obs. But it can be done with a TAS for sure.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I found an even better trick for the first half loop. Do a TtFT for the first trick, and at some point in the air let go of left for 10 frames, I do it after tapping right for the twist. Then you can do the TtR just like I described earlier. This put me even further ahead at the top of the hill.
There's some fenomenom going on at the half loops where your uni faces different directions. Sometime I do a roll and some times a flip, the only thing different was pressing left or right at different frames in the half loop. I think might be able to do flips on the other two half loops this way too, but It's not relevant for these half loops because you can flips the slower way just as well.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
like I said, it's nothing but hill track after the boost so the bigger boost will have no effect on later tricks, for this case a bigger boost is obviously better.
The reason you wanted a slower boost for the particular jump you're refering to was because it affected the next jump.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I don't see how the lap time would be slower. Your further along the track by doing the TtR, and there's nothing but uphill track after it. By the time you can be in the air again the boost will have worn off so the faster boost won't affect any later jumps.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
For the first half loop, I've found you can do the R2T, then jump and do a TtR. This saves about 1.5 frames by my estimation. Holding L and left the whole time, I do an 11 frame jump upon landing, then 2 frames X, advance 6 frames, then 2 frames X.
For the second half loop you can do TtF.
For the third half loop you can do TtFT.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I was wondering something about this run. Is the plan to just beat it on bronze? If so I don't think that unlocks the hunter circuit so won't actually beat the full game. I was thinking maybe it'd be best to start off with a game where it's beaten on silver; this is very much analogous to the Mario kart run. Not only would this allow hunter circuit, but the cpu racer would be faster which on some tracks, like monster, will make you faster because the cpu will catch up to you sooner and you'll get a speed boost.
I think you might be able to do the warp up trick on monster. I think it's a matter being under the exact section of the slope when you’re at peak jump height. This is hard because you have to jump over so much of that spinner, but it looks close to possible. You might need a big boost before the jump, like a TtFT.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
That's a good idea. Also you might not want the last trick to be the best, rather you want it to be just good enough to get you across the line so you don't have to jump as high and can land sooner and start the big boost sooner. Plus your X position might get too far if you jump too high and you'll lose some of the boost.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Did you ever find out if the FTZ was 18/19s as fast as the TtFT? Or how does the FTZ compare? A table of common tricks like this and the number frames they take would be nice.
For cases like this it seems you don’t want the first boost to be too big because you won’t get the full effect. However, the second boost you won’t to be as big as possible. So I wonder if you could do 3 tricks for the last air by making the first trick smaller, like a RT instead of R2T, or maybe just a Tt. Also why didn’t you do the tap backwards and do a FT instead of the RT, is this because it was a bounce and not a jump?
For the last half loop, can you do a TtTZ, TtRT, Tt2TZ, or TtR2T instead of a F2T?
*EDIT* I found you can do TtFT, this is even better than all those tricks above. Two twists and a Tt will not work I'm pretty sure.
Also for the naming convention I think it makes more since to switch the order of T and Z, even though the game list them in a weird order. It’s just easier to see where Zs are replacing Rs of Fs.
For the last jump can you tap backwards? I don’t think it’ll help for this case because doing a R2F is the same as a 2RF, but I’m just wondering for the future.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I’ve found a trick you can do in this game to save lots of time. Well actually I already knew about it but I just found it again and figured out why it works. When there’s a track above you with a change in its slope you can while moving, jump and start to roll to bring your wheel up and if you’re close enough it will warp to the track above. A great place to do this on course mega jump of the second circuit. You do it to warp up to the part right before the big jump, it saves about 2 seconds.
I also found that can warp through those silver things which spin you if you jump and whip out on top of it, it’s inconsistent, but you can fall right through the middle of them.
Also at the part of mega jump where you encounter the first silver spiny thing you can jump over it by landing on it with head first and way in front of you. This puts you into one of those orange safety barriers. You can jump out of it to the left side by doing the head first trick again. Once you fall out of this it’s all crazy, there’s no track you can see but you land on one sometimes eventually you’ll go into a very long free fall and land somewhere near the big jump. You can then see the track and it’s the same but it will go invisible in patches. Obviously this type of trick has huge potential on the right course.
Tapping backwards doesn't work on these halfloops (except for the second one, but don't ask me why only that one works).
You don't have to tap backwards on the second one; it naturally does a flip because it's a left to right half loop. I don't know why the half loops do flips and rolls depending on which way they go. I think we'd need to find the address which tells which way you’re facing to get to the bottom of this.
The first half-loop has been changed now. It's now a TtFT with a small jump doing Tt afterwards. Compared to the "old" one (which was R2T with a small RT afterwards), it gives 608 boost units instead of 536.
So is the second trick smaller now because you get too fast of a boost from the first trick? If so I wonder if you could do a slightly smaller first trick and then do two quick moves in the second one, like a TZ. A good candidate for a slightly smaller first trick would be TfRT.
I can't do anything on that "safe jump zone".
Ya, you’re right, it’s because your going so fast at that point. Otherwise you can.
Assuming you can’t squeeze any better tricks anywhere now I think this is getting close to optimal. Obviously it’d be better if didn’t go left quite as far when changing direction at that one part but that has to be balanced with the speed you get by doing bigger tricks. Maybe that part on the second lap will work out more perfectly.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Okay, so I guess they just add up for a single value which is all that matters? Wasn't sure if that's how it worked.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Zoom Zoo looks pretty good, I can’t imagine anyone doing that well non-TAS.
Some ideas for possible improvements:
I saw you doing rolls and flips in the same air; I guess that was faster than doing all flips?
When doing those things which loop you around the other way why didn’t you do a table top? Also why did you do a roll on the first half loop, can’t you tap backwards and do a flip like in the dragster course. Also after the first half loop you jump and do a roll trick, again why not a flip? Then for the last half loop, maybe you could do the tap backwards and do a flip + tt + z-flip or something.
After the big jump about 1/3 through there’s a patch of green and blue track on a small hill, this is the color code for safe to jump. You can jump near the top of the hill and get a normal jump trick in (tt+f+t). But maybe you lose your big boost or something since your going too far to the right of the screen, how does that work exactly?
After the big jump near the end you can do a small jump near the top of the gold ramp and land a twist or z-flip I believe, but maybe the same problem as the last one exists here too?
I was thinking you might be able to save a little time by jumping when the slope of the track is increasing, like on the big jumps or the loops; just like on sonic.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
So here's some stuff for stunts points f=flip z=z-flip r=roll 4r= 4 rolls, ect. This is basically the order you'd want to do tricks in with points first, then time as the tie breaker. I stop at the 3f 8 point tricks because a table top is obviously better.
4f 64
3f 32
4f 32
4z 32
4r 32
2f 16
3f 16
3z 16
3r 16
4f 16
4z 16
4r 16
1f 8
2f 8
2z 8
2r 8
3f 8
3z 8
3r 8
1f 4
1z 4
1r 4
Twist go like this:
4t 32
3t 16
4t 16
2t 8
3t 8
4t 8
1t 4
2t 4
3t 4
4t 4
1t 2
2t 2
3t 2
4t 2
1t 1
1t 1
1t 1
.
.
.
For the first stunt track I think your first 13 big moves should look like this.
4f
3f+2z
4f
4z+1f
4r
2f+3z
3f+1r
3z+2r
3r+1z
4f
4z+1f
4r
1f+3r
I'm hopping the z-flips can be combined with flips or rolls in 5s, I think they can be but it's close. You must also be able to do a table top with everyone of these, if you can't that's really bad and something else might have to be done. Note after this point I think it's better to do extra table tops instead of a big jump because you'll get only about 8 points max. Also note this includes everything up to the 8 point tricks except the tripples and one 2f. The 2f could be done with a table top when jumping into the pit.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I would join any IRC channel on gamesurge, but having to connect to two different networks can be a pain.
I think for the stunt tracks you'll want to do a 12 point table top every time you leave the ground besides the head bounces at the begginning and maybe when doing Z-flips if you can't fit the table top in as well.
For the first stunt track I'm pretty sure you can do table top + Z-flip city no problem.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
The points are worth this, I think boosts are proportional, expect for maybe table top:
roll 4
twist 4
Z-flip 4
flip 8
table top 4-12 (seems to vary with time held with 4 being very rare and 12 very common)
head bounce 32
note: the table top is the only move which doesn't depreciate.
I wonder if you held your table tops for longer if you’d get a better boost.
Z-flip, flip, twist might better, or the same, but if it's the same and takes a smaller jump it'd be better.
I think if you jump during a boost you keep the speed the whole time your in the air. So maybe it’s faster to get the flip boost and then jump and do the trick again. Or at least jump at the end.
Trick’s points depreciate, I don’t think boosts do. It's half the points each time you do the same trick again. So after you do twister city twice it's twice as many points to do just 3 twists.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Great run, new tricks and shortcuts are cool, manipulation on the things you have to wait on saves tons of time, and boss fights look so much faster than any other version. This is a great run on a legendary game, very nice.
I would still like to see the second quest because that just epitomizes this game. I’d also love to see this game beaten as many times as possible. The 4th time around is just crazy, I’ve never heard anyone beating the 5th time, even with a TAS it would still be very hard, I think at some point game will become impossible, this would be fun to see.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I was experiementing and I found roll and twist give you the same boost, doing them both together doesn't seem to add any speed but I think the boost last twice as long. I think Z-flip gives the same or maybe less boost. I couldn't get table top all the time but it doesn't seem to be any faster either. I'm not sure how flip works but I think it's boost is faster and can be stored.
Z-flip or twist is the fastest move, so for the best emediate boost I think it would be as many of one of these as possible. Unless flips are better. Double z-flip or double twist might be better than single flip.
I know for many jumps on uniracers you want to go low or not far and thus have a slower speed at take off, I think this is actually where most of the time can be gained.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Ya yoshi would be better for the accelerating parts, but he doesn't have good long boosts or tight turning like koopa does.
Well to start the zipper long boost you need to power slide into a wall. The only wall you can really do that into is the right wall. You can bounce off the right wall and go to the left side, might be a little faster. But I don't think it'll be faster than just doing it normally if you can't make it down the second set of lava jumps.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I knew I got below 25.07.
To do roll plus twist I would tap left right in the air while holding R. To do flip plus twise, better, I would do the same but release R before landing so that you land perfectly at a 45* angle, or whatever the angle is when your moving on the ground. Or I would release jump at some point so you jump lower, I suppose this would be faster.
You could try my technique and see if that works, I know it gets you flip + twist.
With a TAS you might able to do Z-flip or a table top, even maybe head bounce idk, I might try a little.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
