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Posted: 8/2/2006 9:25 AM
(Edited: 8/3/2006 7:24 AM)

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Tompa

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Oh, have forgot that you are using Save&Quit warps. Aren't there a lot of places where you could have saved time that way? Your progress looks fine. But is it really faster to go right instead of left when you shall go and get the honey? Seams longer to me... Another thing that could be a little faster is when you enter the dreamworld you can press up before you appear, the enemy will walk down but Link will stand on the same place. So you can run into him and kill him from the side and run up a little faster. EDIT: Forgot to mention before that I really liked your Genie battle, hehe. Nice way to avoid the fireballs :D. EDIT again: I have updated the Bomb and Arrow use. I also did a "Walkthrough" through dungeon 6. Hope you can understand it or els I wil do a movie of it. Here is my new bomb/arrow use:

(20) Bombs and (20) Arrows at start. The (19) is how many you got left. Overworld = 1 bombarrow (19 bombs 19 arrows) for pig. Kanalet = 4 arrows for Bomb Enemy (15) 2 bombarrows (17 bombs 13arrows) for hidden knight. 2 arrows(11) for ball%chain enemy. D3 = 3 bombs(14) for mini boss. 1 bombarrow(13 bombs 10arrows) for knightmare key. 1 bomb(12) for Clock Bombs here you will get three new bombs(15). One bombarrow for wall (14 bombs 9 arrows). Overworld = Two ways: Either glitching with two bombs at the same time which could be very diffucult or even impossible to do but is the fastest. Or els one bomb and the rest slashing with the sword, you can still take him in one round but is just a little slower. You can't use two bombarrows because the arrows wont be enough for D5. (12/13 bombs 8 arrows) D4 = 1 bombarrow(11 bombs 7 arrows) to blow bombblock. D5 = A total of 7 bombarrows (5 bombs and 0 arrows left) and 4 bombs (1 left) are needed for the Hookshot guardian (On the last hit on each time you can use just a bomb instead of a bombarrow to save arrows, don't do that on the last one though.) 1 bomb refill that you shall take. Just one room away Left-Up-Right from second Skeleton Knight. (11 bombs) Overworld = You can get 2 arrows (2 left) in the jars before key 6 guardian. Use boots and sword to kill him. D6 = Bomb(10) switch, bombarrow(9 bombs 1 arrows) wall, bombarrow Moldorm and Wizzrobes (I guess you can with luck manipulation kill them all three in one bombarrow (8 bombs 0 arrow), use Hookshot glitch so you don't need to bomb switch again, arrow and bombrefill (18 bombs 10 arrows). When lifting the jar you need to open the door take both the bombs under the jars (20), 2 bombarrows (18 bombs 8 arrows) to kill wizzrobes to get a key , use hookshot glitch to take a shortcut through the dungeon and skip the miniboss. 2 bombarrows for rabbits (16 bombs and 6 arrows) 6 bombs (10) to kill the mini mini boss. Go and get the nightmare key and jump down to get the key from the chest then teleport back to start. Go left and back to the switch room, continue to the room with the arrow refill and Wizzrobes, take the arrows (16). Go back to the right and up the stairs. Do the Hookshot glitch again to get down to the jar and horseheads. Go right and continue to the boss room. Kill him with 5 bombs (5) Overworld = 1 bomb (4). 1 arrow (15) D8 = 3 bombs (1). 4 arrows (11). Go down from the statue holding the key to get a bomb and arrow refill (11 bombs 21 arrows) D7 = 2 bombarrows (9 bombs 19 arrows). Last boss = 16 arrows

Posted: 8/1/2006 1:22 PM

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Tompa

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I have now finished my glitchsearching game. I couldn't find anything interesting with Up/Left/Right/Down glitches or other tricks more than I already know. But there is nothing I need to say now, I shall wait and see your runs first. And thanks that you will continue with this run instead of a warprun. It makes me really happy ^^.

Posted: 7/30/2006 8:10 PM

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Tompa

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If you shall go for the Pegasus teleport ýou shall remake your dungeon 3 a bit. You only need to take the boots then teleport to start and warp. I will do dungeon 8, and what's before, tomorrow to see if I can find anymore usefull glitches.

Posted: 7/29/2006 3:17 PM

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Tompa

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Oh, hadn't changed that yet... It is faster to take the 100 rupee chest in dungeon 6 instead, as I have to take the seashell. Shall edit the route. I found a shortcut in dungeon 6 using the hookshot glitch: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1477/Dungeon%206%20bug.vbm Sadly this won't save as much time as it looks like. Because you need a key to get the nightmare key, which can be taken very easy close to the "Bug place". Next, after obtaining the nightmare key jump down and take the key in the chest and teleport to start. You will now either have to go the long way and kill the mini boss so you can get to the nightmare the right way. Or els do the bug once more, which I think is faster.

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:43 PM
(Edited: 7/29/2006 3:18 PM)

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Tompa

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I have done a 100% Speedrun route a while ago with Maur's help. It's the same from my movie, but if you wanted it so here it is: --> shield --> sword --> +10 rupees from enemies --> -10 rupees trendy game +30 --> -10 yoshi doll, trendy game --> -10 magic powder, trendy game --> -10 rupees trendy game +30 --> seashell #1 --> yoshi doll -> ribbon --> -10 +5 -10 +20 fish game, heart piece #1 --> ribbon -> dog food --> tail key --> heart piece #2, well --> dog food --> bananas --> Tail Cave --> +50 chest in mysterious forest cave --> heart piece #3 --> get bowwow --> +50 chest in middle of swamp --> Bottle Grotto --> +50 re-enter bottle grotto, grab chest --> +50 chest in cave west of bottle grotto --> heart piece #4 inside cave --> get bomb upgrade --> chest with seashell #2 --> return bowwow --> -200 -10 shop, buy shovel, bombs --> exit shop, reenter steal bow + arrows --> dig up seashell #3 --> head east of warp hole, bombarrow rock face --> get seashell #4 under rock --> get seashell #5 outside Seashell House --> get seashell #6 inside Seashell house --> banana -> stick --> koholint castle + golden leaves --> seashell #7 in Richard's house --> slime key --> Key Cavern --> dig up seashell #8 --> heart piece #5 inside cave --> stick -> honey --> honey -> pineapple --> warp hole -> mabe village --> ocarina --> get marin --> seashell #9, outside Tail Cave --> seashell #10 dig oustide cave --> seashell #11 seashell house --> angler key --> fall down, heart piece #6 --> seashell #12 under rock --> heart piece #7 in cave east of animal village --> learn BotWF --> get heart piece #8 under grave --> dig up seashell #13 --> insert key --> pineapple -> flowers --> Angler's Tunnel --> after flipper collection, use the miniboss warp to exit the dungeon --> learn the mambo --> warp hole -> animal village --> flowers -> letter --> seashell #14 on the "bush island" --> seashell #15 in bush --> get arrow upgrade --> play the mambo --> letter -> broom --> Mabe village, broom -> hook --> warp hole animal village --> dig seashell #16 at bridge --> hook -> neckless --> neckless -> seashell --> Catfish's Maw +200 rupees --> jump from water up on bridge --> seashell -> magnifying glass --> face key --> get seashell #17 under statue --> Face Shrine (Get seashell #18 inside +100 rupees) --> mambo warp: skips owl after face shrine --> seashell #18 in tree --> learn frog song of soul --> rooster --> go down to beach, get boomerang --> play mambo song --> seashell #19 in bush east of Key Cavern --> seashell #20 outside koholint castle --> get lvl 2 sword --> heart piece # 9 in water outside koholint castle --> eagle key: jump into pit to exit --> blow wall, heart piece #10 --> get magic powder upgrade --> pass through flamethrower --> wake + pass through turtle head --> Turtle Rock (Getting heart piece #11) --> play the mambo --> Eagle's Tower --> fall down cliff --> heart piece #12 --> Angler's Tunnel --> mambo warp --> Wind Fish Egg EDIT: I have found a place where the Hookshot glitch can be used to save a bomb, and time, in dungeon 6: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1476/Use%20of%20the%20Hookshot%20glitch.vbm

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:36 PM

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Tompa

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There are both of the types on the Link to Past runs. Why shall this be different?

Posted: 7/29/2006 2:24 PM

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Tompa

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Please, don't use any teleport qlitches in this run... I have been waiting for one without it for a long time. I have reached the hookshot and it is working nice buggy with it too. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1475/Hookshot%20bugs

Posted: 7/29/2006 11:10 AM

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Tompa

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I think Nitsuja is thinking about some places in dungeon 2 for example. In that time Chef didn't know it was faster. And As you don't save many frames he didn't remake it either. Very nice dungeon 3! I don't have any questions. Good use of the Pegasus bug too. EDIT: I have not done that before, Graveworm.. So I'm not sure how it works. One tip, don't use the same movie name on both movies=).

Posted: 7/28/2006 12:28 PM

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Tompa

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Nice so far. Not thinking of any questions for the moment. Haha, I tried what you said with the pegasus boots Graveworm. Link are running very fast :D. When pressing Up+Down Link will run diagonally very fast, as Mr. Worm said. And when you jump Link will jump down instead of diagonally, and he will jump very long :D :D, and fast. Pressing only L+R will do no effect. But by pressing Down too Link will run diagonally Left instead of Right. If you jump this time Link will jump Left. I haven't figured out a way for Link to run diagonally down instead of up... have you, Graveworm? I will play through the game so I can test some stuff with new items eetc.

Posted: 7/26/2006 3:14 PM

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Tompa

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Whatever, I have added you now. I'm online quite a lot on MSN, but I'm away from home till August 2. And I don't have my LA with me, and this computer hasn't got the rom. I can download and continue with my researching if needed. But I will still read about your progress here! Oh.. Think I shall download the rom anyway, hehe, can't watch your movies els=). You can check in my 100% Testrun about the bomb/arrow use locations. They are nearly the same. Some things like shooting the Key 6 guardian and hookshot skeleton are different. EDIT: I watched your new movie and found out some more possible improvements, sorry if you "have to" remake it again to make it faster. But isn't it a little faster to take the left torch before the right one in beginning of dungeon 2? As you are going to the right after... After killing the mini boss.. It's shorter walkway up-right instead of right-up. Sure it is faster to go past the floating hearts? Or is the bat in the way maybe?

Posted: 7/26/2006 7:23 AM

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Tompa

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OH! Stupid me, had absolutely forgot about those two. E2 is a really big waste of time. As we don't even take that path. But C5 can pretty fast be taken. I'll will edit my post right away. Thanks Spocky!

Posted: 7/26/2006 6:43 AM
(Edited: 8/2/2006 10:22 AM)

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Tompa

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Chef, can I please have you MSN if you got it? I wrote a PM to you but you haven't answered... Here is mine Tompa_1989@hotmail.com It is NOT worth to go to a bat, here you can easier see how many arrows/bombs you need to spend and where to get refills. It may look a bit complicated because I have just done it easy for me to understand. (20) Bombs and (20) Arrows at start. The (19) is how many you got left. Overworld = 1 bomb (19). 1 arrow (19) for pig Kanalet = 4 arrows for Bomb Enemy (15) 2 bombarrows (13 bombs) (13arrows) for hidden knight. 2 arrows(11) for ball%chain enemy. D3 = 3bombs(14) for mini boss. 1 bombarrow(13 bombs)(10arrows) for knightmare key. 1 bomb needed for the Clock Bombs here you will get three new bombs(15). Overworld = 2 bombs(13) for Dungeon 4 key boss. You can use luck manipulation and use bomb glitch and lay two bombs at the same time and kill him without using any arrows at all. D4 = One bombrefill at start, takes some sec to get. 1 bombarrow(12 bombs) (9 arrows) to blow bombblock, get key. D5 = A total of 6 bombarrows (6 bombs and 3 arrows left) and 4 bombs (2 left) are needed for the Hookshot guardian (On the last hit on each time you can use just a bomb instead of a bombarrow to save arrows). Here you can get a arrow refill before the first Knight fight, but you need to take a few extra rooms to get it, can take around 15 sec but may be worth it. 1 bomb refill that you shall take. Just one room away Left-Up-Right from second Skeleton Knight. (12 bombs) Overworld = You can get 2 arrows (5 left) in the jars before key 6 guardian. Use boots and sword to kill him. D6 = 20 bombs. 7 arrows in this dungeon. Bomb(11) switch, bombarrow(10 bombs 4 arrows) wall, bombarrow Moldorm and Wizzrobes (I guess you can with luck manipulation kill them all three in one bombarrow (9 bombs 3 arrow) , use Hookshot glitch so you don't need to bomb switch again, arrow and bombrefill (19 bombs 13 arrows). When lifting the jar you need to open the door take both the bombs as well (19) 2 bombs (17) bombs to kill wizzrobes to get a key (I think you can do the same thing here as the Key 4 boss this will save you two arrows, use hookshot glitch to take a shortcut through the dungeon and skip the miniboss. uUse the Ocarina to kill the rabbits, 6 bombs (11) to kill the mini mini boss. Go and get the nightmare key and jump down to get the key from the chest then teleport back to start. Go left and back to the switch room, continue to the room with the arrow refill and Wizzrobes, take the arrows (23). Go back to the right and up the stairs. Do the Hookshot glitch again to get down to the jar and horseheads. Go right and continue to the boss room. Kill him with 5 bombs (6) Overworld = 1 bomb (5). 1 arrow (22) D8 = 3 bombs (2). 4 arrows (18). D7 = 2 bombarrows (0 bombs 16 arrows). Last boss = 16 arrows (0 arrows and 0 bombs in the end. A perfect use!)

Posted: 7/23/2006 6:45 AM

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Tompa

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Are you still working with this? I would love to see more.

Posted: 7/23/2006 5:24 AM

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Tompa

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There are some enemies that can drop bombs/arrows. Like the statues at the south Face Shrine. But they, so far I know, only drop arrows when you kill them with arrows so it's quite pointless. The "Clock Bombs" in dungeon 3 drop bombs if you kill them with bombs too. But you can kill them all 3 at once so you'll earn two bombs. I'm sure there are more enemies that drop bombs/arrows, just don't know for the moment... EDIT: I found at least one place that the bomb trick can be used on http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1417/Even%20faster%20%20miniboss.vbm And for Chef: http://rapidshare.de/files/26695402/Even_faster__miniboss.vbm.html

Posted: 7/22/2006 7:17 PM

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Tompa

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Yeah, I forgot to write about that key, but forgot. I also know, well wasn't 100% before, that jumping diagonally to get forward isn't faster, just to get diagonally, hehe. I have been calculated all the places you need bombs and arrows. Here is an easy explanation of how many bombs/arrows that are needed. If you want me to give a better explanation, like where to use them all so can I post the rest of my text document. Overworld = 1 bomb. 1 arrow. Kanalet = 2 bombs. 4 arrows. D3 = 7 bombs. 4 arrows. Need to go through some extra rooms to get. Overworld = 2 bombs. 2 arrows D4 = 1 of each. 1 refill with bombs, but not in the route so it takes a little extra time. D5 = 10 bombs. 10 arrows. 1 bomb refill, but you have to go hrough extra rooms. D6 = 20/21 bombs. 7/8 arrows. 4 bomb refills with bombs in the dungeon and 2 with arrows. Overworld = 1 bomb. 1 arrow. D8 = 3 bombs. 4 arrows. D7 = 1 of each. Last boss = 15 arrows. And possible other places to use them on to save time, not sure about that yet.

Posted: 7/22/2006 4:42 PM

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Tompa

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I'm not sure what you mean here... you mean I can pick it up in midair using the feather?

No, you don't need the feather. Just stand still beside the statue and you will get it. And if you walk to the upper screen just before the leaf comes into the screen you will here the tune that you have got it, but sadly you haven't so the leaf will appear again next time you enter, lol.

You'll be happy, I've just done some testing (the times are about +/- 1-2 frames): Single diagonal jump: 36 frames Diagonal run to same location: 45 frames Triple diagonal jump: 107 frames Diagonal run to same location: 137 frames Single horizontal jump: 37 frames Horizontal walk to same location: 37 frames Triple horizontal jump: 107 frames Walk to same location: 107 frames What this seems to indicate is that diagonally jumping is significantly faster, in terms of frames, than just walking. Horizontal jumping doesn't save any time, but this is also proof that horizontal walking should be avoided as much as possible when you can either jump or just take a horiz/vert route.

Thanks a lot for this. And now I just can say *HAHA* to TSA, Maur, Quijo and all the other who didn't belive me. Will you redo nearly everything to save these frames or will you stick to what you have?

I haven't had much luck with L/R in other places, but I'll test this, of course.

I tried some but couldn't make it. I found another thing though: http://rapidshare.de/files/26640275/Bomb_bug.vbm.html You can reach enemies and bombplaces faster with this. Just hold Up/Down/Left/Right and the bomb can reach different places

Posted: 7/22/2006 11:40 AM

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Tompa

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Ok, I'm back from my vacation and can start writing again! About text skipping, Maur is the expert not me... I see some improvements in dungeon 2. In the beginning when collecting the first key. Why don't you start charge your sword and kill the enemies that way? Also, when walking in the underground to the mini boss. Your jump on the second platform could be better. You touched the wall on the way up to the ladder, you can easily avoid it by jumping earlier. It is possible to kill the Bomb Guy holding the first leaf on the first try. There is a video of it on TSA's site. http://www.thehylia.com/la_tt.shtml I'm not able to watch it... But hopefully you can. You can take the second leaf during the fall. So you can take it from the top of the screen if you like. And for the Ball and Chain enemy, you only need regular arrows for it. Bombarrow is a waste of bombs, hehe. I did the same mistakes in my 100% Testrun :D. Good job though! But still I have one little question... Can you check if it is faster to jump diogonally than walking diogonally? I've tried to tell everyone that it is faster, but noone cares. PLEASE! :D EDIT: Is it possible to use L/R to take the Ball and Chain leaf from the left? That would save time...

Posted: 7/14/2006 7:26 AM

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Tompa

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Very nice yes! Good that you are using the Key Trick now, hehe. Looks better:D. Just one little question... Isn't it faster to do a charged sword on the mini boss? As you can easy charge before him without losing time...

Posted: 7/13/2006 4:23 PM
(Edited: 7/13/2006 5:05 PM)

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Tompa

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Look really good. Just one little thing: Isn't it faster to do like this http://rapidshare.de/files/25747020/Key_trick.vbm.html ? http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1368/Key%20trick.vbm

Posted: 7/12/2006 1:18 PM

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Tompa

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For the moment it is 58 minutes long and has got 64 stars. Last world was LLL. So the next is the maze and the Metal Cap.

Posted: 7/12/2006 8:28 AM

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Tompa

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Yeah, I know. Dragorn is insane! His 2:17 is already 40 min faster than the previous run. Around 27% faster, hehe. That run is going to be great. This one too, of course:D.

Posted: 7/12/2006 7:07 AM

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Tompa

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I looked through the topic untill page 21. His time was 2:10.

Posted: 7/11/2006 2:52 PM

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Tompa

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If you are able to get the PoP in the moblin cave this will save some time on the boss. With the PoP you can keep it in the air all the time. I'm doing the bug in my run so I don't need to explain... And no, I don't know if the bosses counts. Never tried it.

Posted: 7/11/2006 7:47 AM

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Tompa

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kooz wrote:

Sorry if I offended you or anything. I'm actually going to watch your test run right now because I'm quite interested in it at this point. Would there be any way to convince you of doing a run on the DX version instead? Since you're going for completetion/entertainment over pure speed? Edit: Just watched it. That was awesome. I can't wait for the optimized run, B&W or DX. Haha my screen looks so... vibrant after looking at B&W for 2 hours.

I don't own the DX version, and I don't know anyone that can borrow it to me either... Only way is that I do a TAS of it, but I don't think I got enough "emulator experience" to do it. And this run won't be done anyway, I'm doing Oracle of Ages for the moment. Shall record segment 2 today. Nice done Chef! One thing you shall think about during the run: Try to have a Piece of Power route. Slay a lot of enemies so you will have the PoP in the start os as many dungeons as possible. That will save a lot of time. http://rapidshare.de/files/25520489/TestRun.vbm.html Here is the 100% Testrun, it is meant as a Speedrun and the quality is like it too. It shall be improved with around 15 minutes.

Posted: 7/10/2006 9:35 AM

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Tompa

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1:40 is indeed possible in a 100%. And I'm more on SDA than here so I know perfectly about those runs. The LA dx run has been improved on the "sucky-stupid-no-movies-site" Twin Galaxies, I really dislike that site, to 1:36 instead of TSA's 1:45. The old LA run on 1:44 ndone by Lucid was improved to Maur's 1:30, mostly because of the StartSelect text skip which I didn't use. Then the run has been improved to, I think, 1:24 on TG. I couldn't find the time somewhere. And the improvements is mostly because a Piece of Powerr route, which Ididn't use either. And by using those things in my 100% run a goal of <1:40 sounds quite easy to me.

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