Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Big thanks to FabianX and nitsuja. The zelda desynch problems finally seem to be gone, the movie worked like a champ for me too.
About the movie, I'm thinking it's probably a good idea to get money from the one-hit-kills enemies along the way, otherwise you'll end up getting it from much more difficult enemies. But I guess it has to do with enemies' different drop rates as well... anyone who decides to tackle this game has a lot of work to do.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
O_O How the heck did you pass trough that gap in HotW2 keeping all your speed... not hitting neither top nor bottom, none the less. You'll have to write a chapter on how the flying works for the Tricks page later to be sure.
The two next levels also look good. Didn't see anything you could change. The next level Sinister Sewers will probably judge if Cyclone is worth keeping all the way there or if you should switch earlier.
Nifboy has already explained what I meant about DM2, so I won't go into that.
Another thought I had: should this run be published, subtitles for the level names would be nice, and you could throw in a note or two about what's happening too. I could code them if that's wanted.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
@HCH: Thanks for showing us. At least two levels are faster and could be used as benchmarks for a new version.
Please. Use the full stop => .
@Quietust: Sounds like you discovered THE shortcut which the guy on TSS probably used.
I liked how you used Tails on the MC2 boss. Looking forward to your next update already. Oil Ocean 1 wasn't included in the file online, it seems.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Very nice to see your progress. How do you plan to do, will you restart to grab the extra seconds you talked about, or play this one trough to the end?
Is spindashing different in this game from Sonic 3? I remember SprintGod saying you could do max speed spindash in 8 frames, and you do it in more.
In some loops you jump and in some you don't. Is there a rule to this, or do you have to test each one individually?
I find the fast ducking annoying, but that's your choice.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Does it really take that much long to pick up the samurai in E3? Even though he can break the ice afterwards and run trough the tank instead of jumping three extra times? Weird.
Too bad about the airjump. :/ It looked close when I tried, I hoped holding run at the same time would fix it.
I did some testing on Maniaxe vs. Samurai. Usually, the samurai can attack every 13 frames, and Maniaxe every 18 frames. With jump-cancel bug, both can attack every 5 frames (see below*), but I cannot find any good place to do that in the Shiskaboss level. Maniaxe might be able to do some variation of this bug (jumping low) giving him somewhere between 5 and 18 frames for every attack.
*The fastest way to do the attack bug with samurai is attack 1 frame, jump 1 frame, nothing 3 frames. I tested this on Bagel Bros, man, I think I easily could take it down another second on that level by doing it the proper way. I really feel like starting a new version now. :/
Anyway, I don't know about Shiskaboss right now. I also hope Maniaxe could get an appearance though.
After that the planning is pretty easy for a few levels. Whoever you had at SB for WW1, pick Berzerker in E (you have to), Berzerker for WW2, Samurai for DM1, keep him for TCB and E (I hope that's possible, don't remember those levels right now), open the shortcut in DM2 with samurai, pick up Cyclone, use him for KI, WG and HB. Cyclone saves about a minute in HB, but you don't get a SkyCutter for the next few levels. Probably Cyclone is the way to go.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Hmm, there was a video up to E3 in the previuos version too? I totally missed that.
Okay, so some comments:
In HotW2, it's possible to hit more enemies and keep the speed longer. Here is a video which knocks off 40:ish frames:
http://133an.sytes.net/~truncated/KC_hotw2_bouncemore.gmv
lands on teleporter 44:28, yours landed 45:06
I was forced to press left for two frames to hit the second dragon. Maybe it's possible to do the previous dragon different so that isn't necessary.
It's not optimized, I didn't bother testing a lot of different frames. There should be another 10 to get in there. I had almost forgotten how much I hated flying with Cyclone. :)
The beginning also looks a bit strange, but i haven't tested anything there.
I tried starting with an air jump in E3 to keep downward speed, but failed. Maybe you will have more luck with more buttons?
Another thing, when do you intend to switch to another character, and which one? The samurai in E3 is offpath but has a good shortcut there, plus you'll get new hitpoints which you can use to run trough the first tank in Windy City, instead of jumping trough the blocks above. (Possible bonus in E3 if you take the samurai: one diamond, and enemies to bounce on)
Cyclone probably doesn't help a lot in WC, but he might in Sinister Sewers. Lots of open air and easily bounced enemies. In that case switching directly to berzerker in CC1 is probably better.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Around frame 20200 you go right while jumping up a house, and then on the roof turn around and go left. Why can't you start going left earlier?
Also, some dancing with the sword in synch with the music in the autoscrolling levels would be fun. This game is sort of... boring. Why did the W&W games decrease in quality for every new game?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Speaking of which, Viper is due to return in two days and continue working on this run. Let us all pray to the great video game god in the sky that he hasn't forgot, gone missing, is in a coma, got himself a girlfriend or any other such divertion. The only acceptable reason for absence is one's own funeral.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
I have some ideas, mostly about cutting corners and having maximum speed as you pass them. I can post specifics tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, I have an exam to study for now.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Just watched the video, it's great. I haven't figured out what you did to fix it, though.
At the ending, would you mind putting in the thing you did with the bonus at the end in the previous version - namely looking up and picking them one by one? I thought that was fun. That and making the big ring appear while the score counted and entering the bonus stage without entering it.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Collins> Dash less, run more. Or if you Dash, don't rev up as much.
I was thinking the other way around. Dash more, run less. And when you dash, make sure to rev it up to max. But maybe I'm missing something.
SprintGod> That movie is nothing *evil grin*
When can we expect this new gift to humanity?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Wohoo! :D Glad to hear that it worked out. What did you do to fix it?
Is there anywhere I can see this achievement? It's not on your webpage.
Also, I demand that you continue making this video. Quite obviously noone else has the knowledge of this game you have.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
You're talking about CP2, right?
I'm watching the video from TSS with knuckles, it finishes at 0:34. He uses the gliding move once to lose his upward vertical speed. Other than that I see nothing which Sonic wouldn't be able to perform. What am I missing? Is it the jump at the start which cannot be done by Sonic for some reason?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Hm, that's strange. Falling into pits should depend on character location, and that's highly deterministic. Did you do everything the _exact_ same way? Did you bounce on any enemies before this gap? That could be it, because some enemies behave differently depending on which frame the level is started.
You could try hexediting in the old run and see if it still falls into the pit.
Anyway, 1 frame is nothing to cry about. Random factors might make the level impossible to finish as fast as some other time with other random variables.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
I noticed something else: the score countdown is not linear. After some amount of points, the game switches from 40 points per frame to 160. After a while more to 640.
If you can choose, it might be better to get no hits bonus at the levels where you get a lot of points for other stuff, because then the added time in counting becomes very short. Assuming you care about real time and not level time, that is.
I might take this into consideration if/when I decide to update my run. I'm not sure. I haven't though of a place it would have an effect yet.
Time Divisions
Time is counted until the timer stops. Usually this is when the egg capsule is broken or the end flag is hit, although it may apply to other events; for example, in Wing Fortress Zone, time stops when the screen fades.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck. It's very nice to see this game get the attention it deserves again. Previews would be fun.
Oh, and don't disappear mysteriously like everyone else has. :)
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Wheee...
One thing, your submission contains some text from the previous version which doesn't apply to this version:
>this run uses 5 of these ramps (there are 6 on the track).
>- Slows down a bit the bike to be able to get 5 or else it would jump over one of them on the first lap
Not that it matters much, the video says it all.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Hhhh... Okay, I tried to be nice because you're new here I don't want to destroy all your motivation because of a bad few first submissions (everybody's first submission is bad), so I said "You're getting closer" when the truth is "This submission blows."
You have the completely wrong attitude. Don't settle for being 45 seconds slower on a level. Don't even settle for being 1 second slower. If you are 2 seconds faster, redo it again and see if you can make it 4 seconds faster.
>Sure, they're fast, but you haven't been spending the last three days playing Sonic the Hedgehog 2 every waking hour to try to improve oneself.
Wow, three whole days. How long do you think people usually spend perfecting the movies here? :/
>For example, Chemical Plant 1: there's supposed to be a small little door that opens up and leads to the area where normally I run under the little blue beads that hop up from the floor. In MY version of the game, it's non-existant for some reason, or I can't seem to find it (oddly, though, i've looked in the same place: apparently someone took it out, or something).
That's no excuse. (If it's true, which I somewhat doubt.) Use the same version as they did.
>Another, in Oil Ocean Zone, people make awesome times by being able to rush under the oil and get through to parts previous unaccessible without risking life or limb.
So why don't you? You SHOULD risk life and limb, because if you mess up you have the handy F8 button to fix it for you. Redo it until you get it right.
>No-one from Sonic Center has posted their movies, nor a speed-run, here on this website!
The Sonic Center doesn't use savestates or slowmotion. Why should they post their movies to a website with different standards?
>As far as i'm concerned, this record is unbeatable.
Hilarious. Brain meltdown?
>And when this submission gets accepted, ....
*topples over laughing*
>For now, why don't you just act like there /are/ no records. It'll be a hell of alot more impressive.
From http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html
A speed-oriented movie must beat all existing records
If your movie is going to beat something, be sure it beats it. If your tool-assisted movie is slower than the non-toolassisted world record of the game you play, your movie will almost certainly be rejected.
>The records on Sonic Center have NOT been accepted here as submissions, and therefore, should not be used against me in the judging process.
See above. Your submission has about a snowball's chance in hell to be accepted.
>Interestingly enough, there are a ton of levels that you can beat with an incredibly low time with Knuckles or Tails (since he can fly in Sonic 2 and Knuckles) that you cannot beat with Sonic.
This is no excuse. All the times I posted in the Sonic 2 topic were for Sonic only. You have Tails too (which is probably the reason you're faster in Metropolis with the screws).
> I'm playing Sonic 2, not Sonic 2 and Knuckles: there is no blast processor, Sonic 2 is ultimately slower than Sonic 3 or Sonic 2 and Knuckles, and it's being judged by being compared not only to records that don't even apply to Sonic, but also to the Sonic 3 and Knuckles movie.
Sonic 2 and Knuckles cannot be played with Sonic. If Sonic 2 and Knuckles is faster or not is irrelevant, all the times I posted were for Sonic 2 only.
>And, just as another quick note, Sonic 2 is a much shorter game than Sonic 3 and Knuckles. He had to use 100K+ re-records, because the game is much longer, and much faster, and even at 20% slow-down, things can go by blurringly fast.
Your movie is 30 minutes. His is 50 minutes. 900 * 2 = 1800, not 110,000.
I wouldn't have cared about how many rerecords you had if your submission had been any good, but now it's not and the rerecord number makes it obvious you didn't try hard enough.
-----
On another note, I wonder which 4 people voted Yes for this. They must have seen another movie than I did.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
A while ago I asked Sprint God if he had the 9c beta, and he already had it. So this doesn't change anything, probably. Or maybe he's already doing a Sonic2 in secrecy, who knows?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Ouch, I just noticed you used 900 measly rerecords. It's obvious from the number alone you didn't try which was was the fastest in every instance.
Look at this video:
http://tasvideos.org/movies.cgi?id=156
This is the quality people are expecting.
That video used 110,000 rerecords.
Try much, much harder.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
You're getting closer.
Did you read this message?
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=337&start=60
It applies to your previous submission, but it's good info anyway. If you don't beat those times (played by people without savestates and slowdown), your run has a somewhere between an extremely small to no chance of being published.
From the first level counting onward, you are 1, 3, 17, 25, 6, 15, -3, 23, 12, 8, 5, 27, 52 (!), 45 (!), 7, -16, -17, 10, and 23 seconds slower. (minus is where you are faster.)
Special Rules: Use of the pause button is strictly prohibited! Using the select button to rapidly enter and exit the sub menu, as your weapon hits the enemy, to register more then one hit is BANNED! Rapid Use of the sub menu to pass through the walls on any stage is also banned. Passwords are NOT allowed! Timer starts when you hit the start button and ends when you defeat Dr. Wily for the final time. You must complete the game or your record/attempt will be disqualified!
Doesn't say anything about it actually. He doesn't press start rapidly (only once) and he doesn't pass trough any walls. He never uses select.
It still seems strange, judging from the other rules I've seen them make. Hopefully Mr. Kelly R. Flewin will come in here and set it straight, since he judged the current video.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Reviewer, Experienced player
(969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Another thing: you use the pause bug to reset motion in air. Is that really allowed under TG settings? I thought they outlawed everything that didn't conform to what the game makers had in mind.
