Posts for Twisted_Eye

1 2
8 9 10
25 26
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
I would have never, never has guessed at the ending party. Fascinating idea to do the last few battles with just four generals! With the high manipulation I guess it doesn't really matter to lose that fifth, and it slows things down to do that one extra menu sequence every time you let the heads roll, great idea! The rest of the run is simply amazing as well, you took this to the stars. You've earned this huge Yes right here.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Seems like it wasn't even mostly a sword run, but an air-attack sword run. It's a novel concept, especially since the sword attack in the air has a dreadfully low range, half the time when I play I don't even use it because I tend to get hit so often. I like interesting concepts for fun games, but the actual run itself was mostly boring. It really is a very long game.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Wow, nice improvements! Never even thought to test skipping Xu Zhe outside the castle, good eye.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Nicely done, both pinball and breakout stages were much easier to watch! Definitely a keeper.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Seems like a fun game to play, and it is rather puzzl-ish with its action. How many levels are there? I would see a two player warps TAS being alright if there are a lot of boards. It just seems really repetitive.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
mklip2001 wrote:
If the game is supposed to be this hard, why are all the Par scores so low?
It's Mini-Golf, a low par is hard. This game is so difficult that in hard mode, they're expecting you to Hole-in-One nearly every hole! It's actually pretty revealing about how hard this game is since the TAS broke exactly even, going under par once even! My uncle had this game when I was young, it's a delightful entry into the woefully under-appreciated Mini-Golf game genre. The only attemptable difficulty in real-life is the Practice mode, where you're given something like 30 strokes, and even to this day I've never gotten past the seventh hole. Questions about the run: 1. The second hole, with the hamburger. You delay to bounce the hamburger, but this is unnecessary--you can press A while the ball is rolling. In fact, while testing this to make sure I remembered correctly, I accidentally got a hole-in-one from firing the ball randomly, with the hamburger sitting still before I fired. 2. The level with the fans...it looked really good, I just wonder what can be done about shortening it to the hole-in-one. I'm sure you tested a lot. Just keeping the fans going won't do it, but maybe if the ball is manipulated closer to the fan before the final hill then you can get more speed to get it down and blown across to the hole. I just can't guarantee that it's faster to do that way though. 3. The pinball machine and the blockbuster hill both looked pretty slow in spots, but I know how hard those are to work AND how dang slow this game moves, so there probably isn't much that can be done. Those last couple holes looked especially awesome, great job on the run, and it was definitely short enough to maintain interest despite being mini-golf.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
That was pretty entertaining despite! I enjoyed watching the enemy's blade spaz out and bounce away, sometimes spinning multiple rotations before hitting the ground. The random women every tenth hit, especially the old women, were amusing WTH moments.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Most of the last few levels were the same as the first just a little tougher, so that made it harder to watch, but the boss fight was neat enough. The game sure looked like it was tricky to TAS, though, so I'll give it more of a Yes than a Meh. Tough to make it exciting, but you made a good run.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Ha, two levels gained at once after the last fight. Yeah, using those tactics there sure was pretty! Yi Xin was a great idea. Also, now that you have Hong Shui, I wonder if it's worth using that in a battle. Maybe one round of All-Out to kill Rebel Forces, Bei Ji on the two casting Hong Shui to help the others do their damage without using a bunch of time, and then have two or three people hit the waves doing enough damage to knock the enemy generals down multiple thousands of soldiers in one turn. The need for a river nearby will hurt the potential for use a little sure, and it's a larger amount of TP than Yi Xin, yeah. Lookin' great, still! 15 minutes saved so far is awesome.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Every minute or so the game screams out "Sonic has passed," and yet you never died once, what is this That was a good watch, lame ending but the run was nicely done.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Already almost 10 minutes saved, excellent! Another idea, possible less attractive, is to wait until after the Chang An battle to bring Lu Bu into the actual party, since you have to walk by the building several times anyway. Just throwing that in there. I'd be willing to help test any of the odd ideas I come up with but it does sound pretty tricky for someone who didn't make the actual code itself. You're screenshot's pretty sweet looking though, that's quite the set-up.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
hahaha the sequence of criticals in the first fight alone is hilarious, wow. heh followed by a series of misses from Zhang Jao, this is great. Interesting that you didn't hire Han Zhong before the Zhang Liang fight, would the extra firepower make the fight faster or would his low strength actually make it slower? And I believe that in one of MeteorStrikes comments I read that Cheng Nei when successful multiplies damage by .7, though I don't if that's really necessary to program your script for since the damage lowering will be noticed and accounted for automatically anyway. If you do skip Han Zhong, you can just pick up Yang Jin in Hua Xiong's guarded gate. A few more health and strength with one less fight. Wouldn't be worth picking him up for any other reason, and if you came this far without Han why bother anyway i dunno. Also, would it be worth testing picking up Han Zhong and just not going the back way? The extra hp and hit per turn might outdo the time it takes to nab him? --After watching the second run, wow, losing Mi Zhe sure hurts. Han's worth a try to keep him alive, and it would reveal if killing weak hitting tacticians is actually better for time. I guess what I'm trying to ask is how long did it take to do these two runs and how much work was it for you? Relatively comfy and painless? It definitely looks awesome so far. A minute saved in the first eight, man, that's a large improvement!
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
While I was digging around tryinig to set up that Xu Zhe Leaves .fcm up there, I was also looking at this area of memory, so I was able to pick out that, in hex, 80 is 'can't be found outside', 90 is recruitable, 98 is recruitable after defeated in a castle/gate battle first, C0 is recruited, and there may be another value for recruited but in billeting. Wow, 5 seconds on that one little fight? That's quite the improvement! The second demo was sweet, too. --and yeah, the Item Exploit glitch only affects data in a range that affects items on the map or in chests, spell casting data that is uncorruptable, and a blank area that doesn't ever affect the game at all, so I doubt it'll be helpful in the run. Maybe to pick up an extra sword in the castle south of Chang Sha since you have to go back, or for the same reason the Scimitar in Cheng Du (--edit, this scimitar can't be glitched to reappear except by one guy just before the last Luo Yang fights anyway.) I doubt it'd be worth the set-up time.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
haha such silly bugs. Nothing changes if you hit B if the first party member is dead and the second is now leader, and I can't really think of anything else to alter the bug's effect. heh, I'm going to go to that battle, kill everyone else, and do the bug and see what happens. --nothin, he's already in battle so why would it affect him? Anyway, wouldn't be hard to add the B button to an earlier battle when a wait is long, I'm sure. I'm also curious what happens during one of the points when a character has to leave a party, but what if that character was the only one alive in the party? -- this does, hahahaha: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1885322646/DoaE%20Xu%20Zhe%20left%20%28U%29.fcm I imagine if you create a party of all non-tigers that this would happen when you lose a single battle, as well, and would have to go to the Bulleting House to switch in a live character just to use a Resurrect!
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Here's an interesting note I found at the end of a FAQ on GameFAQs: - On the way to Luo Yang the first time to fight Dong Zhuo, the second gate is kinda goofy. Every 1 out of 4 times I play the game, Xu Rong is accompanied by Guo Si. Guo Si had a decent attack and like 419 hit points, and you could recruit him too. Which is weird that he'd notice it's rare--the published TAS fights this guy here, yet a couple other FAQs also say that he shouldn't be in this fight. Just how powerful is the Item Exploit bug? If it can make characters disappear from a battle completely, who knows what we can do with it to make our run stronger--taking guys out makes things faster, and it also lowers XP after battle, bringing us closer to the 258 we have to lose before picking up Xu Zhe to gain Fu Bing. I dunno.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Holy CRAP, that one tile is exactly as the image appears! The rebel forces even are so strong that they can hit first, and hit for over 100 when over 1000 still. That's way too strong for even the TAS to work with--at the time, it would take casting Ye Huo to just do that much damage back. Each Rebel Force killed is about 205XP, and a typical castle battle of the area is about 130XP. If you come back later with a slightly stronger force, it might not be enough XP to balance the large use of time. The rest of the map's inconsistencies always pull from a previous chapter, so this is the only tile in the game to do this with looks like. Still, that's really cool to find! Glad to hear that your script is coming along so well! The demo video sure shows it well, the Zhang Liang battle looks very well manipulated in the end where Liang just hits Liu Bei over and over and on the last turn an ally general gets the first strike and knocks him out, for example. Looking real good so far!
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
(Jia Xu would actually require stepping out of Chang An in the wrong direction I believe, so it's probably not worth it over all.) Anyway, that probably is the best route. If getting the Songs and waiting until after Liu Feng to pick up Mi Zhe saves that first trip or two to the inn, well, it might just be worth testing. Thus, of course, would affect things if we wanted to do the Gold Key/Lu Bu idea, because the extra taken spot would require toodling around with sooner or later. Lotta stuff to juggle. It all depends on how powerful the automated script will be. The better manipulation alone will surely cut down on the number of inn runs in the TAS, so I dunno. Maybe we should just come up with a list of ideas and test each of them--if the script makes it relatively painless to test each idea, I sure wouldn't mind spending a couple hours seeing how far behind the silly sounding ones are. Which brings up the point about dropping the tigers to save the time on the HP gain. Rewatching the old run, I noticed that at the end of the game, Zhu Ge Liang, Ma Chao, and Zhao Yun had over 10,000HP, which is the best they can have for the damage multiplier. Picking up new generals near the end that have the multiplier and high damage would be a big expenditure of time, just to skip the levelling messages. But then what if they were sent to the reserve while weak and pulled out at the end of the game, now magically at their max? It would cut down on most of the level-up messages and skip needing to pick new generals at the end.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Wow, I must have done some tooling around a couple years ago and not finished any work, because my memory is off from the published run. I'll have to watch it to make sure I'm on the right page. Yeah, that's what happened, I was working on improvements but never completed it. I'm sorry for the confusion! --Rewatching my old run...so many moments of "man, what was I thinking??" Picking up weapons and not equipping them, or equipping them on people that aren't even fighting...A new run will just demolish the old one.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
EDIT: wrong, all of it actually. Strange. To avoid picking up Ma Chao immediately, you have to avoid Ma Dai as well and grab him from the reserve elsewhere. For Fu Bing, it's possible that we can pick up Jia Xu after the Dong Zhuo chapter. He's got exactly 220 INT and after the battle we're level 9. The 400 HP would help in the next section as well.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
The first shop is at the very far back of town, so it's a long walk. Getting gullwings there probably wouldn't be useful this early in the run. Chi Xin, hmm. Since using TP for Lian Huo is a waste, it could be used to save time from going to an inn. It can only be used in battle, though, and that's a slow process, too, but probably less slow. In the planning process for my first one, it was recommended to me that going through the cave, getting the key, going through the later castle and getting the sword would take so long that it overrides the gains from removing Lu Bu from three fights and Guan Ping. When Acmlm's sexy, sexy script is finished up, it would probably be trivial to fully test. (The gullwing probably wouldn't help, since it can only take you back to Xu Zhou at that point.) Yes, Mi Zhe is probably a necessity, although it's possible that picking up the Songs would be a better idea. Ren is just as tactical as Zhe. My big idea for this section to test is picking up the Songs to start, ignoring Han Zhong, and fighting the front gate instead of that big looping rear path. The runner would be down an axe, but hopefully the manipulation will make up for it, saving a large amount of time. It is completely possible that, after Guan Yu and Zhang Fei are lost to guarding their castles, one can have a full party of generals that do not gain HP on level-up and can be changed out at will. Whenever you have a full party of seven and pick up one of the necessary generals, they go right to the reserve, and you never have to pick them up. (I do this in the published run to skip Zhao Yun, but it can also be used to skip Zhu Ge Liang. All other HP-gain generals can be ignored, and non-HP-gain generals are made more powerful by joining the TAS's weak army.) Some more enemy recruitment might be needed towards the end of the run as a result, perhaps, but it'll be a large amount of time saved on text between levels. I had no idea the TP gain was manipulable. That would've been very helpful to realize. This would end up giving us that extra An Sha that my old run needed but didn't have, causing an extra inn run at the very end. If Zhu Ge's not picked up, though, that's an extra TP gain that wasn't had in the first run (-2 compared to -1), unless Pang Tong is sequestered, which is quite the idea to toss around. Extra battle, long battle with his large health, but weak Rebel Forces and manipulation will make it not so bad. His 3000+ HP will be very useful for most of the middle part of the run. Actually I think it's a good idea to plan for. The only time that gaining a level is important is if the very next tactic gained will save a good deal of time in the very next battle. The only tactics to do this for would be Ye Huo, An Sha, and the first group healing tactic (Tong Xian I think? or Yin Xian). This would be completely conditional to the final run and would have to be tested for at the time. I say that it might be possible to save time this way but unlikely. Good questions, it lead to the Pang Tong idea. Any others you can think of?
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Awwwesome, wow. And here I was hoping it was just one little random address that changed once a frame and/or once per use so that it would all be a little easier! Silly. Good luck getting the predicting to work. It seems like you're pretty close to the formulas so far. My old run deserves to be bettered, and the game deserves the best it can get.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
MeteorStrike's amazingly detailed FAQ on the Item Exploitation/Disappearance Bug explains so many of the memory addresses beautifully here: http://faqs.ign.com/articles/974/974431p1.html Thanks to him doing ALL of the memory digging for me, I had a nice headstart on the script I wanted to make, and after a couple hours, I came up with this (probably really ugly) "Find the Best Frame to All-Out" script.
-- This script, when running correctly, will
-- brute force checking All-Out for a full
-- minute and keeps track of the best frame
-- for time and best frame for health of group.

	local i=0;
	local frame=0;
	local framecount=0;
	local bestframes=0;
	local bestframesframes=99999;
	local bestframeshealth=0;
	local besthealth=0;
	local besthealthframes=99999;
	local besthealthhealth=0;
	local health=0;
	local endloop=5;
	local enemies=0;
	local statell=savestate.create(9);
	local myinputs = joypad.read(1);
	FCEU.speedmode("maximum");
	savestate.save(statell);

	--Increase the second number here to brute force for more than a minute of gameplay.
	while (frame<(100)) do
		framecount=0;
		endloop=5;
		myinputs.A = nil;
		joypad.write(1,myinputs);
		savestate.load(statell);
		for i=0,frame do
			if (i~=frame) then
				joypad.write(1,myinputs);
				gui.text(8,150,"So far... Fastest: "..bestframes..", "..bestframesframes.." frames w/"..bestframeshealth.."HP.\n Healthiest: "..besthealth..", with "..besthealthhealth.."HP in "..besthealthframes.." frames.");
				FCEU.frameadvance();
			end;
		end;

		myinputs.A = true;
		joypad.write(1,myinputs);

		--Increase the latter number if you don't mind winning All_Outs longer than 5 minutes of gameplay.
		while (framecount<15000> bestframeshealth) then
						bestframes = frame;
						bestframeshealth = health;
						bestframesframes = framecount + frame;
					end;
				end;
				if ((framecount + frame) < bestframesframes) then
					bestframes = frame;
					bestframeshealth = health;
					bestframesframes = framecount + frame;
				end;
				if (health == besthealthhealth) then
					if ((framecount + frame) <besthealthframes> besthealthhealth) then
					besthealthhealth = health;
					besthealth = frame;
					besthealthframes = frame + framecount;
				end;
				endloop=1;
			end;

			if endloop==1 then
				framecount=18001;
			end;
			gui.text(8,8,frame.." "..framecount.." "..enemies.." "..endloop)
			gui.text(8,150,"So far... Fastest: "..bestframes..", "..bestframesframes.." frames w/"..bestframeshealth.."HP.\n Healthiest: "..besthealth..", with "..besthealthhealth.."HP in "..besthealthframes.." frames.");
			FCEU.frameadvance();
			framecount = framecount + 1;
		end;
		
		savestate.load(statell);
		--Printing bests to screen
		gui.text(8,150,"So far... Fastest: "..bestframes..", "..bestframesframes.." frames w/"..bestframeshealth.."HP.\n Healthiest: "..besthealth..", with "..besthealthhealth.."HP in "..besthealthframes.." frames.");
		frame = frame + 1;
	end;

	-- Loop the message forever until you choose to end the script.
	-- In the future I should change this to set state 7 to fastest's start and state 8 to healthiest's start via an anonymous state,
	-- maybe even set 6 to alternate healthiest or faster in case two come out equal so I can test both and see which is more entertaining to the viewer, say multiple consecutive crits/misses? I dunno.
	FCEU.speedmode("normal");
	gui.text(8,150,"All done! Fastest: "..bestframes..", with "..bestframesframes.." frames w/"..bestframeshealth.."HP.\n Healthiest: "..besthealth..", with "..besthealthhealth.."HP in "..besthealthframes.." frames.");
	FCEU.pause();
This will save a new state and press A on the first frame and record the results, reload the state, wait one frame, and do it again, up through however many times you tell it to (right now it's set really low, to 100). It automatically knows if all of the enemies are dead, and if that round was faster or had a healthier party (in case it's not too far behind in frames you have an alternative) and keeps records of which was best, displaying the results on screen during the whole exploration. It has its flaws still, though: You have to manually comment out the lines that check whether any of your allies have died if they enter the battle already dead (I can fix this later though), and when the script is ALL done, it loads the state and then advances a frame to right the final result to the screen. This is probably an easy fix. The idea was just to get something out there that works. (I wish I could figure out why it won't actually save to State 9 like the documentation says it should, though. It would be nice to add features later where it saves states for the best runs and you can just load those states to go straight to the frame.) And it DID work. Setting it to test for 100 frames, the script found a solution that was 134 frames faster than even your improvement, with ally generals having a cumulative health that was 15 more, after more than a second of consecutive failure frames, something I doubt a real person would've had the patience to go through! This script is only good for finding ways through the battle by hitting A and letting it run. It would require some serious math to come up with a bot that could possibly improve the battle with the B button to exit All-Out at precisely the right time,and then go right back into it, hmm. I also intend to write up a script that does the same thing as this one but presses the B button after a goal is reached, say, all Rebel Forces have been slain, so as to potentially make the rest of the battle faster if we have to switch to Tactics by removing their longwinded "Attacks! Damage done!" texts. Maybe I can combine them all into one dialog box with buttons and a fancy range 'o' knobs with iup i dunnos! Good idea about equipping the Flails without taking a step first, it makes a lot of sense. Add those frames in before the 92 frames of wait my script found, and there's potentially enough time to even go into the menu again and set Liu Bei as tactician or equip a Robe or something, just to see what it can do to save health or whatevs, since we'll be waiting anyway. In the 92 frame battle, Zhang Fei never takes any damage, hence the quicker ending, by Guan Yu is dropped to 22HP. If the Robe can save another few HP then we've got something good. I'll play around more after work.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
There are a lot of ways to save time in a new run over the old, like doing one round of All-Out in a Castle battle that also has a couple Rebel Forces first thing so that their attacks don't waste time later, although Rebel Forces near the end of the game have a high enough agility that they could attack before other generals, giving another chance to manipulate a crit/miss. I like your elixir idea, though when group heals are available they're the way to go. Still, using All-Out more is definitely the way to save the most time in a new run. The formula using either STR or INT depending on which is stronger makes sense and that sure seems to be how it works; I had always assumed it was only the latter. And, yeah, the idea of Chi Tu Ma giving that general more first strikes to make fights potentially faster was the reason I picked him up, but with SO much manipulation in the game and so many parts of battle where you can't, I'm thinking it's probably fine just to not pick him up. At the same time, the logic of "it's just two seconds what'll it hurt" says it's okay. Pfft.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Yeah, this was the first TAS I ever made, and I knew when I was finished that the first few sections were poorly manipulated, as I was still developing a sense of patience. There are bits of strategy that I think I can do without, like picking up Chi Tu Ma for example, and finding more ways to keep less max-health-gain-at-level in the party whenever possible. I also missed at least one of the TP increases by only having Zhu Ge Liang around. I've also realized that the amount of damage your tactics do is related to your character's strength, not intelligence, so having say Zhang Fei cast magic is actually a good idea in the game, he just really low odds of connecting, which is irrelevant in a TAS. Improving this run has always been in the back of my mind--maybe I should use it as an excuse to learn Lua scripting. Your info there is really useful, like it might be a good idea to pick up the guy in the first castle of the Northern region whose health is just over 1000 for his extra damage multiplier. Something to test.
Twisted_Eye
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player (333)
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
Sad that this isn't getting more responses, this is a very good run for an awesome game.
1 2
8 9 10
25 26