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Tee-N-Tee wrote:
I tested the "bounce-gliding" technique (no idea if there's already been coined a term for this but I guess it's self-explanatory) on the Metropolis Boss that Kiske showed in the any% TAS. Here's what I've come up with:
[URL=http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/203707346/k-met3-nr.gmv]Metropolis 3 in 0:47::17[/url]
Due to the boss' 7 orbs, there's a myriad of possibilities, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it's still improvable.
That’s why we all should always work together on Sonic games
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
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Sadly, the moving object later in the level is in a worse position for me than in your case, so I cannot finish the gmv right today, sorry. Have to find a solution to keep the improvement to the end of the stage. If you have mood, you can try with me. Here is the partial gmv: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/573648251/s2k-htz2.gmv
As I am a bit (just a little) drunk at this moment, maybe, you’ll be better at inventing a solution for this. Good luck.
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Kiske… Friend… I am trying myself at Hill Top 2 and to be honest… I am ahead of you by a very lot… :)
Even if you do not want to cancel this submission, I really ask you to not forget about a lot of issues with this run — the team which you mentioned in the author list has great potential, it can create way better runs, seriously! Remember our frame war in EHZ, wasn’t it cool? :)
P.S.: not going to claim that the run is bad. I really appreciate your work on this, and the level endings are really beautiful, but… Some places just need to be done just a little bit better :)
I hope we can return to this run together soon.
(upd) I will try to finish this gmv this weekend
(upd2) I know your attempt at HTZ2 is faster than mine, published on Youtube, but don’t forget that it was a testrun, the one on Youtube. :)
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Kiske wrote:
Here's a demonstration (By WST, and has performed with Knuckles and has also achieved, but not as fast as Sonic, so it takes speed a bit ahead to make glitch. I don't know because it is the reason, I have tried thousands of times as it has done with Sonic but not as fast as expected.
The reason of Knuckles being unable (or nearly unable, who knows) to beat CPZ1 in the same way as Sonic is Knuckles’ less jump strength — 1536 against 1664
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Kiske wrote:
WST wrote:
The only mistake visible by a naked eye is at the CPZ2 boss fight, there seems to be a missed frame...
See here!
I have a problem and find something weird in this zone.
When finish CP2, in the current movie, is normal, but, I improve this to 3 frame faster, and find the surprise that I loss some frames
Ok, I see, but I think the animals animation is not counted as the in-game time, while one of your goals is „Aims for fastest in-game time”. Loosing frames on that boss to luck-manipulate animals seems to break this rule. Personally I would prefer to not care of those animals at all, though some people could call me not meticulous enough to be a TASer :)
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Hat, when combining your resulting gmv from pieces, don't forget to set the proper number of rerecords. Hopefully you know how to do it, if not, tomorrow I will explain (using phone this moment).
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Man, everytime you post a gmv or make a submission or just a comment, I have only 3 words to explain my feelings:
like a boss
Do you even realize yourself what you do? You’ve just accelerated to 5600+ without taking boost from the slope before the loops! I begin feeling that you can do anything to this game *_*
Like:
<WST> hmm, is it possible to skip that wall?
<Aglar> take it
<WST> would be so nice to accelerate to 5600+
<Aglar> here it is
How if I ask you to accelerate to 6000 after those loops? Still possible? If not, where is the limit?
In other words, if someone has to update Sonic 2 run, it should be you. Tee-N-Tee had years to do it, but still didn’t. I don’t want to claim that he’s worse, I just love seeing you doing things so much like a boss :)
(upd) honestly, I am not that stupid and I see myself that your speed after the loops is dependant on the points which give you boost — like up-loop jump and down-loop jump in the first loop, then a series of rolling + small-jumps on every signle point allowing doing it. So I actually realize how you manage it, but it still impressive. Perfect alignment, friend, and now I do not have questions like before.
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Crazy! It looks like Tula has no idea on how to use that kind of thing :)
Anyway, good luck in that Juanda or Janda or something
And yes, I am going to comment all your future posts and WIPs like now, because I am so glad to see you doing a TAS of this :) your run is really adorable, almost like Pokota’s avatar. If I could, I would give your run a hug :3
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At ~0:08.30 (MCZ1) can’t you glide-glitch through the obstacle? If you could, it would save a few frames.
(upd) nevermind, I’ve just realized I was wrong — the moving objects will “eat” the improvement anyway
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The next stage is so beautiful, really hope to see it done soon :) I remember there were a lot of secret rooms, and you'll be flying a "plane" in the middle of the stage.
BTW, I still remember most passwords, like zerotks, alartus, radaral...
Sadly, I do not remember the names of the stages, so I cannot tell which is my favorite one. I only remember that it's underground. And it's not the final stage.
I also forgot the effects of the other energy drinks :(
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So basically we need to have such a combination of speed and alignment that allows us to skip 3 intervals in a row (when the space for alignment is very tiny)? 2 for the slopes and 1 for the ring box? Can’t we calculate explicitly the possibility of doing it and minimum required speed?
I think it could be possible if you perform a perfect alignment and speed management way before that place, so you will minimize loss of speed. There should be a combination of speed and alignment allowing to “hit” the required position sequence, though it may require way too high speed =(
(upd) I think it also makes sense to draw vertical boundaries of the areas that need to be skipped, to have a better visual control of your movement.
(upd 2) I also considered the possibility of taking Amy’s route for Sonic. It would give Sonic extra boost from the slope before the loops, and we could accelerate to ~5600 sp/f, and finalize the stage like in the currently published TAS. I assigned that task for feeuzz, but I have no idea if he succeeded at it or not…
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Relax :) maybe he works as a project manager in real life. The good fact is that this project could easilly die forever if Hat didn't help it's resurrection. And the other important fact is that Tee-N-Tee is way too skilled in terms of optimization — his level at this game is unreachable for most others, so, I can understand if Hat doesn't want this to turn into Tee-N-Tee's solo project after dedicating it incredible amount of time and patience.
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Guys... I want to explain why I call this glitch "monitor madness".
Just a few days ago I was sure I was a very experienced Sonic TASer who knew the game very well. Then I saw Kiske's TAS.
That TAS exploded my brain to a level, similar to what I felt after watching the famous bortreb's TAS of Pokemon Yellow the first time. Why? Because... I could maybe expect just some kind of a new strategy. New zip, for example. But what I saw was like a bomb. It destroyed all of my knowledge about the game's physics. A flat ground. A monitor. And Sonic running into it. Before that day I was 100% sure that there were no way to break that monitor without slowing down because of the RSC. What I saw looked crazy. I have no words other than "madness" or "insanity" to name that kind of thing. Because that thing had proved that Sonic game is just so complex that even very basic tricks are still discovered from time to time.
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Aglar wrote:
About the monitor thing, if you're 1 pixel in front of it on the frame before you hit it you'll catch some air and thus run again once you land. The adjustment of position needed for this is the answer to your others questions, except for the loop one which I simply didn't spend too much time on. That's the reason why I suggested you to work further on it, have fun ^^
Ok, boss, we will ^^
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WST wrote:
Beleive me, someday we’ll see Sonic finally break into the 0:14 area
Aglar wrote:
Here's something for you to work further on
Hey, Aglar! Out of curiousity, why did you miss a chance to take an extra boost at 0:04.49? In all honesty, I do not quite get it.
Anyway, congrats on finally aglarizing this being the first person on Earth beating EHZ1 as Sonic (ha! Sonic and Tails, not actually Sonic alone =P) in less than 15 seconds.
Also I really want to know, what’s the trick to break monitors in this crazy way, without getting affected by the rolling speed cap? I think you guys somehow roll for only 1 frame, but how does it happen?
And the last question: at 0:12.19 you jump, but can’t you just apply the “monitor madness” trick once again and then run up a slope and finish the zone exactly like in the current published TAS?
(upd) one more question: in the second loop, you let the rolling speed cap affect you for a few frames, doesn’t that slow you down? If so, is it done in the name of proper alignment or something?
Sorry, friend, I have so many questions… :)
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Here it is, Kiske. It is only 1 frame ahead of you at the point where it ends, but note that the X speed in the end is 4926, which is higher than yours (4745), which may allow further improvement.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
P.S.: not going to claim that the run is bad. I really appreciate your work on this, and the level endings are really beautiful, but… Some places just need to be done just a little bit better :)
I hope we can return to this run together soon.
(upd) I will try to finish this gmv this weekend
(upd2) I know your attempt at HTZ2 is faster than mine, published on Youtube, but don’t forget that it was a testrun, the one on Youtube. :)
Strongest Yes ever :3