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feos wrote:
WST wrote:
Я лишь знаю, что это возможно, потому что один раз это со мной приключилось, но так как я тратил многие тысячи циклов перезаписи на попытки воспроизвести этот трюк в серьёзных проектах, я на него забил.
Так а зачем уповать на удачу? Если запись этого трюка есть, просто бегаешь по форуму и всех просишь раздебажить. Вот если записи нету, там да, сложно.
Дело в том, что причина, вроде бы, ясна. Просто нужно выровняться правильно и таким образом на большой скорости «проскочить» некоторый участок между 2 кадрами. На скоростях более 6000 sp/f это случается весьма часто, но на более типичных скоростях около 3000-4000 едва ли возможно. Переход в крутящееся состояние на мгновение уменьшает Y-координату персонажа, тем самым сокращая минимальную скорость, необходимую для того, чтобы трюк стал возможным. Я скидывал запись этого бага марзоджру, но он ничего толкового не смог из этого извлечь. На самом деле он гораздо чаще рекомендует метод проб и ошибок, чем может показаться :)
Archanfel wrote:
Этот вариант никуда не годится. Как можно начинать симфонию с фальшивой ноты?
А так, ТАС получить хочется, а воспроизвести не могу ни я, ни кто-либо из друзей. Ни marzojr, ни feeuzz, ни Evil_3D не воспроизводили эту штуку, хотя пытались.
Я вам больше скажу, это далеко не единственный такой трюк, который я умышленно не делаю. Можете называть меня плохим TAS-ером, но есть и другие похожие места. Например, при игре за Наклза в S3&K в одном месте скорость (~4300) позволяет пролететь сквозь стенку толщиной 16 пикселей, и это сократило бы время, но никто это ещё никогда не сделал, потому что нужно как следует спозиционироваться, чтобы пропустить эту стенку, а горизонтального контроля в тот момент нет, поэтому выравниваться надо несколько заранее — в момент получения буста, и большой вопрос, можно ли там спозиционироваться. Подобных микрозадачек при тасинге этой игры возникают десятки, но их некому решать, точнее, если всякий раз застопориваться, ты вряд-ли когда-нибудь придёшь к результату. Хотя, конечно, Аглар и Зурггрифф такие задачки обычно решают, но у них и мозгов серьёзно так побольше)))))
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Честно говоря, мне приходилось умышленно не применять известные мне трюки из-за того, что их слишком трудно воспроизвести. К примеру, в Сонике есть трюк с влезанием в стенку (точнее, в пол) в нижней части петли, который включает в себя сворачивание в клубок. Но как я один раз обнаружил на практике, этот же трюк можно осуществить и персонажем, который не умеет сворачиваться в клубок, в частности, это Эми и розовый Наклз. Но это несоизмеримо труднее при прочих равных исходных условиях (скорость, форма петли). Я лишь знаю, что это возможно, потому что один раз это со мной приключилось, но так как я тратил многие тысячи циклов перезаписи на попытки воспроизвести этот трюк в серьёзных проектах, я на него забил. Не хотелось бы, конечно, чтобы так же получилось с этой крысой.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
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Hey everyone, i've just made a new TAS today. Here is the link
Its improvable, but i think its one of my better tases.
The spikes in this hack can somehow eject the balloon upwards flawlessly, but it seems to be hard to perform, I still have no idea how it happened to me, but I can say for sure that it’s possible and saves a lot of time.
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Yesterday I wanted to TAS Dr. Robotnik’s Plan B myself, but I couldn’t find a ROM for an hour. It’s a pity to realize it, but it’s the third time when I give up just because I cannot find the ROM.
(upd) okay, after digging in an online Sega emulator with Firefox’s element inspector and http request sniffer I finally got the rom in my hands.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
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Generally the menus in Sonic games are also optimizable in this way. For example instead of [^][][^][S] one can press [^]¹[^S]²
This also applies sound tests and so on… Can save quite a lot sometimes )
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kaan55 wrote:
Here's one note regarding spin-dashing in Sonic 3. You actually need to have less than 268 speed to be able to crouch. I'm pretty sure it is written as 256 in the game's code but the game registers the input as you going neutral for a frame (-12 speed) and then checks for if you can crouch.
As I remember, things are even more complicated inside, marzojr told me once, but I already forgot the exact mechanism.
Anyway, this leaves some space for an extra micro-optimization: you can use [<>] instead of [<] for braking, as many times, as it doesn’t make your braking a frame longer. You’ll gain some extra subpixels for free. It’s also useful for positioning :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
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In all honesty, that’s quite bad for now. It doesn’t look good enough even for a real-time speedrun, the tool-assisted speedruns are meant to be far beyond any human skills. Even a technically bad TAS can be super-human and can impress impressible people to tears.
I really suggest focusing on the basics for now. Reading the game resources page and stalking the forum would help.
1. Learn how to control your speed & position: use RAM watch or, better, Sonic TAS tools
2. Learn how to brake, at least using the most simple and sloppy methods, which are still better than braking in slow mode with visual feedback.
3. Learn about jumping, slope angles and how they affect your jumps. Why jumping a frame sooner or later may give extremely different results (in your run I see some places where you probably wondered “how do they jump so high?” or something like that, and use the spring instead.
4. Learn about the loops, they are common to all stages of all Sonic games and many methods of boosting the speed or entering the terrain abuse loops.
5. Try improving some Joseph’s TAS. For me he’s the best candidate for that, don’t ask me why, just beleive. You’ll see how challenging it is.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
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For now you need to learn to pay more attention to details. My recommendation is to try improving runs of other players, preferrably beginners, like Joseph. It’s easy and hard task at the same time. Easy because there are some mistakes visible by a naked eye of an experienced player, hard — because you need some experience to see them and realize where you can adjust your trajectory to save some frames or even seconds.
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=466938#466938
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Hi and welcome to TASvideos, matheusbrancobs!
Many of us keep our eyes on YouTube and thus many of us already know you from there :)
Your runs are quite good, and I hope you’ll make good contribution to our community and enjoy your time here ^_^
By the way, it looks like you forgot to link to your YouTube account, so I’m doing it for you
https://www.youtube.com/user/matheusbrancobs
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LancexExWx wrote:
I'm not one to get concerned with projects and their progress, and I know I'm a lurker, but is this project still alive? We haven't seen any post in this forum for a bit.
I guess you are new to TAS, because some projects take years to complete and this one is not a little one.
By the standards of this forum less than 2 weeks after the last post usually means that hard work is in progress right now :)
Stay patient and someday they will finish it…
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Thank you for the encode, GoddessMaria! I wasn’t able to play it, because it’s done on BizHawk.
Now I can say that for my eyes there are some visible mistakes, and it will be very easy for me to improve this run. Someone who is good at controlling 3 characters at once can do it even better.
However, it’s a good run for a beginner, a lot better than what PLAYERONE made. As usually, I recommend joining our community and working together on future runs instead of doing such submissions.
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I am not surprised. Sadly, can’t check how good or bad it is at this moment (I will take a look a few hours later), but actually, I kind of expected this kind of post from you here. Thank you for always checking it.
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I am lazy to read tons of text, but I only want to note that I love the idea of wasting some in-level time when it doesn’t affect the result time, to make the run look more fun :)
When you have like 10 seconds of time to waste, everyone agrees that you have to perform something entertaining. So, if you have 10 frames, why not do the same, just in smaller scale?
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JXQ wrote:
Holy moly. Is that this? I haven't been able to find a working download link yet but this is exciting.
Yeah, that’s it. I also can’t tell you exactly where to download it, in fact, I also never downloaded it from a public location; instead, I contacted the person nicknamed liquidshade from marzojr’s advise by e-mail and got my copy of it in the response :)
I still have it on one of my PCs, sadly I’m far away from it at the moment, but later I can share it I think.
This was my first and last atlas encode of a ring attack:
Link to video
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JXQ wrote:
Taking it farther, a series of cam-hacked encodes combined with a NESAtlas approach would be an enormous undertaking (which I've thought a lot about how to practically accomplish.. first step would be to create full-res maps like exist for Sonic 1 and 2), but it would make for an amazing result. These maps are sprawling, beautiful, and packed with interesting things, and getting a sense of the entire route and how it's split up among the two characters simultaneously would have a huge amount of light bulbs going off as you immediately understood how much more was happening outside of the traditional screen boundaries.
Such maps actually do exist; there is also a tool for creating them — called Sonic Extractor. I definitely love the idea of HD atlas encodes, and I beleive that such a great work needs some extra encodes to show what’s happening (though the default encode should also be present and… should be the default one). I remember r57shell working on an improved camera hack for Gens, allowing seeing atlas-like picture in real time while playing, but the project seems to be abandoned at this moment.
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Evil_3D wrote:
PikachuMan wrote:
So screw the primitive TAS capabilities of the past decade! TAStudio is the best way to make TASes.
Unless someone ported Sonic TAS tools to Bizhawk gens is still the best choice for this games in term of optimization.
As marzojr already told — he could port the TAS tools to BizHawk, but he can’t, because he uses Linux, and BizHawk does not support Linux.
But the TAS tools (Lua script set) is not even the worst part of the problem. The main one is still the camera hack, absense of which makes it impossible to control Sonic offscreen (which is absoultely required for almost any TAS).
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
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Anyway such kind of a glitch is kind of useless, and it’s not worth wasting time for research. Why? Because the viewers hate when you skip the stages. Even with the level-wrap glitch in 2D Sonic games, there are lots of negative responses, just imagine what would happen if you jumped directly to the final boss fight from the very beginning, for example. Of course, it’s always interesting to find the fastest way to beat the game, but there are many games for which the fastest known way is just too fast to be interesting. And absense of entertainment value kills the TAS world.
Finally, and more importantly, one can trigger the level select from the title screen :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)