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Nice. I tried that place with Amy a lot, and failed to get into the wall, I think it’s impossible for her…
Anyway, when you’ll become a better optimizer? :) Anytime you say you beat someone, it’s always all about a new trick. Of course, it’s very important part of speedrunning, but if you add just one little element — heavy optimization — you’ll be able to make TASes of submittable quality yourself…
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feeuzz22 wrote:
He had not enough speed to wrap the level
The fact that he went off screen in the game where the camera’s speed is 6144 subpixels per frame, makes it quite obvious that the speed was enough for the trick to work. I guess there is another reason, which can be visible only if we see a gmv.
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First of all, I am sorry for writing my reply in hurry and hence possibility to misnotice some things in the messages above. I have a really busy day, but AnS asked me to give my comments about the video in the first post.
As I already said about your run of ICZ1, this is pretty good for a newbie (you may want to see how usually newbie-level Sonic TASes look). However, this video is the case when I have a feeling that I could do it significally faster, so I let myself give you some advices.
1. As I already wrote, climbing in that obvious way is slower and also much less fun for the viewer.
2. Rolling off sloped surface gives you more acceleration than running. Despite the fact that your X speed gets «shaped» by 4096, your on-ground speed grows faster, and you can release it by jumping at proper point.
3. In the loops, there is a point after which the slope angle goes negative. It’s usually the best point for starting to roll.
4. In the loops (again), there are 3 most commonly used points for jumping. The corresponding jumps are called up-loop jump, down-loop jump and out-loop jump. You may read more about them in the knowledge base. Obvious fact about those jump points: more speed you have, harder to hit the point. To not miss the point, you often have to make some tricky positioning maneurs.
5. Watch your speed carefully. Red springs give you more speed than spin dash, but the spin dash gives more speed than yellow springs.
My last recommendation is very simple: instead of putting your efforts into a ring collection run, focus on the goal of pure speed. You will notice a lot more things about the game’s physics and also will realize what skills you have to improve.
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You need to use RAM watch or, better, marzojr’s Lua HUD, to determine when exactly do do certain actions (rolling, jumping and so on). It includes a simple jump predictor, and you’ll see what speed you’ll have after pressing jump button.
It’s useless to rely on character animation, instead, you should work with such values as X, Y, on-ground speed, X/Y pixel and subpixel positions, slope angle and so on.
Your TAS is very good for a beginner. Next time consider faster (and funnier) climbing, like shown in many Qwerty’s movies like this one. To know how the things are done, just look for some existing gmv file.
Link to video
You may also watch this for some inspiration
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Qwerty,
DMTM has shown that in GHZ2 you can enter the zip faster by glide-glitching through the bridge in the very beginning. Even without optimization, he managed to improve your time by 1 frame. Consider adding in this trick, friend.
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IMHO, choice of the coding language for learning should depend on what tasks you are going to solve. Sometimes scripting languages are even better than compiling ones — an example case is if you are going to work in a company where you’ll have to implement automation of various processes… Such tasks may involve knowledge of bash, Python, Perl & so on. Web programming would require knowledge of languages for which there are good MVC frameworks present. PHP, Python, Ruby are good candidates. Finally, if you are going to write GUI applications, you’ll probably have to deal with C, C++ (as there are such frameworks as GTK, Qt and others). So, the task and the tools should help to make the choice.
Tool assisted speedrunners approve this frameworkAs well as this XMPP server
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LTRP, I love your run.
The zip which you used to beat MZ1, is possible for Amy, but (unfortunately) it is slower than what I did.
(upd) I’ve found a way to cause lewel-wrap in LZ1 faster. Funny fact: the level is already beaten fast as hell, but it’s still very improveable.
(upd 2) LZ1 can be beaten in 7 seconds, but the trick is very Y-subpixel relevant. My last results is 8 seconds and 2 frames, which is kinda frustrating — I hate when only a frame or two separate me from a significally better result, and it happens too often :(
(upd 3) I’ve succeeded, friends… :) Here is the today’s time table
Green Hill 1 0:22:58
Green Hill 2 0:12:29
Green Hill 3 0:30:52
Marble 1 0:15.04
Marble 2 0:11.07
Marble 3 0:27.21
Spring Yard 1 0:21.14
Spring Yard 2 0:29.20
Spring Yard 3 0:46.12
Labyrinth 1 0:07.50 (seriously!)
Labyrinth 2 0:08.46
Labyrinth 3 0:16.48
Star Light 1 0:14.20 (surprise, DMTM! :-p )
Star Light 2 0:09.55
(upd 4) LZ3 is hard, I’ve found a lot of places where it’s possible to enter terrain, but couldn’t use any of them to perform level-wrap. Maybe I’ll have to use Tee-N-Tee’s zip, which I did not try, yet (tried to find something faster).
(upd 5) Succeeded to break LZ3 and went further. Nice to mention: every single Crramalama’s time is beaten, and most of Sonic’s results as well.
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Ilari wrote:
I compared the videos. It seems that the times are the same within +/- 1 frame for act 1, but for some reason, act 1 starts 3-5 frames later for you.
Thank you! In fact, I didn’t put any effort into optimizing the menu selection, since this game and it’s hacks usually do not desync when you make editions. By the way, I found significant improvements in act 2 and 3 (which are not shown in the video above), mostly relevant to rolling on sloped ground, somehow missed by emu2000. However, I find it hard to TAS act 2 and 3 without emu2000’s input file (I need to see which route he took). If he’s still active, I’d be glad if he could share his gmv file. It also could help to improve act 1 (the boss fight) as well.
(upd) Here is my last time table for my amateur Amy in Sonic 1 TAS:
Green Hill 1 0:22:58
Green Hill 2 0:12:29
Green Hill 3 0:30:52
Marble 1 0:15.04
Marble 2 0:11.07
Marble 3 0:27.21
Spring Yard 1 0:21.14
Spring Yard 2 0:29.20
Spring Yard 3 0:46.12
Labyrinth 1 0:08.53
Some of the levels are already optimized (GHZ1, MZ1, MZ2, MZ3 and LZ1), others need deeper research and further optimization.
Anyway, here is the video for your interest.
Link to video
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marzojr wrote:
I did some work on that hack (using rev 8), and I haven't optimized it thoroughly, but I got much better times than that:
Green Hill 1 0:24:44
Green Hill 2 0:12:53
Green Hill 3 0:31:14
Marble 1 0:15:04
Here are the results of my last effort.
Green Hill 1 0:22:58
Green Hill 2 0:12:29
Green Hill 3 0:30:52
Green Hill 1 is pushed to my best (thanks to Aglar and Crramalama), Green Hill 2 and 3 still to be improved. My goal is to reach the same optimization level as in the first act.
I still can’t beleive that it’s impossible to reach the end of the tube after the horizontal underflow in Green Hell Zone act 2, but still cannot pull it off. If someone could make some research on it and prove it possible or impossible, I’d be glad. Another my question is about animal luck manipulation: how to perform it?
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The glitches in this game are so much similar to NES version — the fact that impresses me every time I see a SNES Super Mario run.
Yes vote, enjoyed the TAS.
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Sorry for triple posting; here is my attempt on TASing Sonic Boom. It’s a brilliant Sonic 2 hack intruducing a truely game-breaking Sonic’s moveset, speedy level layouts and good music. TASes of this game are mainly about the camera speed, not Sonic’s… :)
Link to video
I tried to cause horizontal underflow in act 2 as well, but unfortunately it’s impossible. I do not know if I beat emu2000 in act 1, or not. By the way, I’ve performed the zip in the act 1 in an extremely tricky way, where I had to fit into a 36 subpixel-wide window (which is insanely hard to do, because the running acceleration in this hack is heavilly increased), but soon after that I’ve found out that the zip can be done easier. Anyway, I am happy that I managed to take the nerdy way (which, in fact, is also faster by 1 frame).
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marzojr wrote:
I made a lot of things good for TASing and a lot of things bad for TASing
I’ve also noticed that you modified the spin dash. It’s possible to jump from the same X-position where you just performed a spin dash, which is not possible in the original games. Was it meant to be made for TASing?
LTRP wrote:
It's a good run for a quick attempt.
Well, I had a reference video, which I could play with slowdown in my player, so I was mostly simply trying to repeat your run. I wouldn’t like to join the WIP though.
By the way, is the cheat code in your run entered as quickly as in mine? If not, you may want to take mine as my very little (even not in-game) contribution.
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Wow, this is amazing. I am happy that you are working again on it.
In my opinion, you should try cooperating with feeuzz, who is capable of recording 3 separate inputs (which is surprisingly supported by Genesis and by this game). One player controls 3 characters — imagine how impressive it could be :)
Btw, it’s very visible that the game is made by a TASer — the score countdown is made much faster and the displayed in-game timer is more accurate :)
(upd) by the way, I failed to beat your GHZ1 result in a quick attempt, which I made just a few minutes ago. But if you want, here is my run
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Friends, stop discussing my run, may I have some my own projects? And what’s the matter of this discussion if I got the same result in seconds (which was my only goal)? I realize that the last part could be done faster, without that braking which decreases my Y speed, and fall to the red spring faster, but I was simply lazy to do it in other way, because I saw that the previously made improvements allow me to loose some frames at that place and still get 0:28 with ease.
Of course, when/if I redo mine part of mine and feeuzz’s cooperative TAS, I will watch your run once again, but, just FYI, the Tails run was made offline, and I could not go to TASvideos private messages and check your gmv.
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Aglar wrote:
WST wrote:
By the way, here is my last job.
So feeuzz didn't show you my short take on this act that I sent to him, like 2 months ago, to help you?
He did, but I was lazy to find the input file and see the exact improvements. Anyway, my goal was simply to repeat the same in-game time in seconds, and it’s reached.
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Uh… What the hell happened to CPZ and ARZ1? Memory corruption allowed you to modify some value by just jumping around in the end of EHZ2?.. Or maybe you run back just enough for the capsule to get unloaded and breaking it every time «completes» the next act?.. And is this glitch possible to perform in HTZ2 or WFZ?
By the way, here is my last job. It’s mostly optimized, excepting the very end (because I already saw that I reached my goal of 28 seconds). Found a possible zip, which I am going to test with feeuzz’s assistance.
Link to video
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Sorry for off topic… :)