I don't think most of the Jinjos are really that far off, though. I'd have to poke around the game again, but the only one that comes to mind as a definite skip is the one in Treasure Trove Cove, with that stupid underwater blue Jinjo. (How did he even get down there, anyway? Idiot.)
I did not actually know about those cheats for the Stop 'n' Swap items. Huh. Guess I should wait to shoot my mouth off in the future. *blushes*
I agree that any% should be done first. I enjoy minimalist runs, even if it's not all that much shorter than a 100% run. Any ideas on which 6 Jiggies should be cut? I'd vote for Mr. Vile's minigame as one of them. Very tedious, and probably one of the longer ones.
Just as a gneral note, the Ice Key and the Eggs aren't obtainable in this gamer, only in Banjo-Tooie. They just show up in the end if you get all 100 Jiggies.
I voted yes. It was fun and fast-paced, and very entertaining. I would have preferred seeing you take on the target and platform stages just to break it up a little more, but it's a matter of taste.
-Tentacles (The one hard battle, as only Edgar will be with you. Are they vulnerable to Petrify? If so, you can one-hit KO them with Shoat.)
Nope, but one of the tentacles (bottom left?) can be ohkoed and the rest can be hit with ice rods.
Which means spending money, unfortunately...I'm going to start calculating item costs next. I was wrong when I said we'd only be spending money on Echo Screens and Smoke Bombs. We're also going to need rods (at least four Ice Rods, three for the Tentacles and one for the boss in Thamasa) and Sprint Shoes (preferably three pairs.)
Another note on rod usage: The one good stat Kutan has is his Magic (33, which is tolerable,) so rod breaking is a very good idea for any battle in which he might actually be fighting.
Jyzero wrote:
Another thing to try:
-Enter the South Figaro dungeon by the exit to take the Earring.
All right, I've done some testing, and offer up these results:
Triggering Celes' cutscene before using the slip-through glitch is...not really significantly faster than the normal route, to be honest. None of the other soldiers that block paths are in motion, so you have to play through S. Figaro as normal until then. (You can use glitch 10 from the list to skip the fight with the Officer, but you can use that in a normal route too.) After triggering Celes' naming screen, you then would leave the house WITHOUT her, and slipthrough the guard to get out. You can not take her with you, because the game will not allow Locke and Celes to exit through the house. You still have to solo the cave with Locke. Celes appears as normal during the Narshe battle.
In conclusion, the only advantage this route has over the normal one is fewer random battles, as we don't have to go through the basement. Not a large increase of time, and we still lose the equipment from the basement. I don't think this one is worth it.
Going back to the Kupan route, I still think this is the best choice. Yes, his stats are horrid. Yes he has little to no equipment. Yes, he doesn't have Runic. All of these are important.
In a normal game. In a speedrun, particuarly a TAS, that's not the case.
Let's look at the battles where Celes/Kupan is a required character. How many of these are we going to be fighting in a normal manner?
-Tunnel Armor (Kupan won't be there, and Locke can one-hit KO him with the Thunder Rod anyway. That's probably the best bet even if Celes is there.)
-Number 024 (You'll have three other characters with you. He can be taken down fairly quickly with a well-equipped Gau and Sabin. Celes would not be a huge help anyway.)
-Nerapa (Always a joke.)
-Tentacles (The one hard battle, as only Edgar will be with you. Are they vulnerable to Petrify? If so, you can one-hit KO them with Shoat.)
These are the only required ones. For everything else, Celes is optional. I think in the end, taking Kupan will lose you more time on the map than in battle. (He can't be equipped with Sprint Shoes, which means walking through the WoR until acquiring Edgar.) And I still think he's faster in the long run. I'll keep play-testing.
Here are the potential problems with skipping Celes :
-You miss an Earring. This will lower Sabin Aura Bolt damage and damage with rods.
-You miss about 2000GP (You will need enough sometime to buy Echo Screens and smoke bombs)
-The character replacing Celes is very weak, you cannot change his equipment and he can't learn magic
-Kuppa will be is a forced member for a good part of WoB and almost all WoR (since we wont get alot of party members)
At least in Locke's scenario, Kupan is not in the battle party. I think he's only used for cutscenes. I haven't advanced to the Narshe battle yet, so we'll see.
EDIT: Never mind. I hadn't read all of the responses to the glitch list before posting. Kutan is indeed in your party through game end.
Money should not be a huge problem. The only things that need to be bought are Echo Screens and Smoke Bombs.If we don't make enough money off forced battles, we can always have Locke steal some rare equipment. He's a mandatory character anyway for large portions of the WoB.
The Earring is a loss, but not a huge one. The only place it would really hurt would be the Magitek Factory, and if absolutely necessary, we can buy one by then.
Jyzero wrote:
With the previous sketch glitch strategy this would have been a big no. But with the new Gogo strategy, I think it's possible. The most troublesome battle would be Tentacles in the Figaro Castle.
This is assuming Celes is not forcibly added to the party either post-Opera House, as the finder of the glitch speculated, or post-WoB. I admit it may be difficult if that doesn't happen.
EDIT: And it doesn't.
Jyzero wrote:
There's aslo another possibility :
Use bug #11 to go straight the the rich man house and do the Celes introduction where you name her. This way Kuppan will change to Celes. Go back and exit town. Tunnel armor can be soloed with Thunder Rod and luck abuse.
Can someone try this ?
Give me some time. I'll try it out. Hopefully, I'll have results by tomorrow.
I just tested bug #11, and it works perfectly! Locke can get out of South Figaro by himself in under 15 seconds. You then have to solo the cave with him, but you'd be running from most of the fights anyway. The only problem is if you get pincered. Tunnel Armor would be a problem, but there's a Thunder Rod in the cave that can kill him in one hit. In total, Locke's scenario can be completed in under three minutes.
I'll keep playing with this bug later. I'm not sure how skipping Celes will hurt the game, besides having a Moogle replace her in the cutscenes.
So, I was poking around GameFAQS today, and I found this link on the FF6 boards.
http://www.mnrogar.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=325
While most of these aren't going to be to useful to a TAS, some of them would. In particular, I point you to number 11. It should allow you to skip all of South Figaro in Locke's scenario! I'm going to try playing with this and swee how well it works.
There is techinal explanation in Master ZED's Bug FAQ. I won't bother explaining it here - just search for joker doom. I've tested it and it works. About Magus Rod - if you can sacrifice 20 Mblock, you can just use the Heal Rod.
Huh. That's interesting. I still question how fast it is, as it requires going through Zone Eater and getting Gogo, and returning to the Solitary Island to pick up Palidor (will we have any spare Magicite in the inventory? Maybe we could call him up that way.)
If we went with this, then Mog becomes more useful, as this is a second dungeon where the Moogle Charm would come in handy. In this scenario, he'd probably be worth it.
Jyzero wrote:
It's nice to have discussions about FF3 again. Here's is what I think about the points suggested :
- I'm not sure skipping Mog is faster. Don't forget that he'll be 5 levels higher than everyone. And if you don't get him, you'll need to have two character alone as the final party. This mean you won't be able to Vanish/Doom in the first turn of un-runable fights.
Two? Celes, Edgar, and Setzer are all required pickups. Even without Gau or Gogo, that's three, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Mog's extra five levels are nice, but I wouldn't think they make a huge difference. If he's attacking physically, his poor Vigor and inability to use Illumina easily cancels out the extra damage he does from being higher-level.
Magically he fares better. If you could keep him in near fatal status, he has the strongest desperation move in the game in Moogle Rush. That uses Magic to determine damage. It also ignores defense, so it would probably be the strongest move available to him. I know it takes a few seconds before becoming available to use, but we're mainly talking about the tiers and Kefka, which is by far going to be the longest battle in the game (unless we go with Joker Doom.)
I'm still not convinced he's worth it. I think Gau offers better returns for less time put in.
Also, you can get the Charm Bangle by talking to every soldier before the banquet in Vector and answering Gestahl's questions perfectly. This relic cuts the amount of random encounters roughly in half, is equippable by everyone, and is gotten about halfway through the run. Best of all, you lose no time by getting it.
but don't you? in order to get enough points for the bangle, you have to take a break during the banquet and trounce Gestahl's bodyguards.
Ack, forgot about that. I still think it's faster in the long run, as it's an easy battle.
With Gogo, you can use Joker Doom in the final battle. You need to have Gogo in the air with Jump or Palidor, use Setzer's 7-7-Bar to kill your party, land, and use Mimic until Kefka is dead.
...seriously? I thought Kefka and the three tiers were programmed so Joker Doom could not work. You've tested this?
Ego Buff wrote:
(Magus Rod from Dirt Dragon or betting Heal Rod, Force Shield from Kefka's Tower, Tao Robe from maranda in WoR and Bard's Hat from one of the 1000 shop that sells it).
Dirt Dragon would take too much time. I think the Colosseum would too, but there's probably stuff to be considered there.
Corundrum wrote:
Plus, at the low levels you'll be at, I'm fairly certain the Illumina can't hit 9,999 damage.
Regular hits won't. Catscratch just might. But we'd need to get a Merit Award, and that doesn't appear to be obtainable via the sketch glitch, according to MasterZED's FAQ. It seems to be Colosseum only, and would take at least two battles (Imp Halberd or Titanium -> Cat Hood -> Merit Award). Probably isn't worth it.
I have a somewhat far out question. Is Mog worth getting, period? The only benefit is the Moogle Charm, which stops enemy encounters. That's only used for one third of the final dungeon. That's not that many battles to run from, and the time it takes to get Mog might cancel out that gain.
Also, you can get the Charm Bangle by talking to every soldier before the banquet in Vector and answering Gestahl's questions perfectly. This relic cuts the amount of random encounters roughly in half, is equippable by everyone, and is gotten about halfway through the run. Best of all, you lose no time by getting it. This seems more useful to me than Mog and the Moogle Charm.
We can just use Body Slam. It is at least stronger than cut o_O
And sadly, it's the only physical move Bulba can learn that would be better. He has a horrible TM selection. He simply would not be effective in gym 4. If you'd picked up your Fly slave by then, you'd be best off using them.
Looking at Bulba's list, he can't learn Dig either. No way would he ever be faster than Squirtle.
Things that Bulbasaur has problems with:
- Gym 4 (Enemies are Grass type and thus resistant to Grass moves, and you won't have anything powerful physically at this point in time
You'd have Cut, which would do the job. Not that I think that Bulbasaur or Charmander have a chance at being faster than Squirtle. Especially since you'd need another Pokemon as a Surf slave, and nothing's really on path except possibly Lapras.
Gau could make a nice addition to the group but his randomness could also bring the anhilation of the group.
It can't be that hard to manipulate him, can it? He's got a 50% shot of using Catscratch. Those are pretty good odds to start with before we bring in luck manipulation.
Your final party will be Edgar, Celes, Setzer and Mog (You'd be crazy to skip him). You could recruit another member as an Echo Screener.
The obvious choice would be Gau, as you could just stop on the Veldt before getting Mog and fight one battle to pick him up. Actually, I wonder if Gau might not be a better choice then one of those four for the final boss. With a Hyper Wrist (right next to the Ribbon in South Figaro) and the Stray Cat rage (could be obtained very quickly right after/as you get him), he'd certainly do very high damage with Catscratch, probably better then the others. You might even gain time earlier, as he could have that setup in WoB as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the small prep time required for that is definitively offset by time gained in battles.
Mmm... This site typically doesn't allow unreleased games,
The thing with Mother is, it's an official English translation. The game was totally translated into English and slated for release by the publishers, but then they changed their minds and didn't release it. The ROM that can be found on the Internet is of that official translation. Someone got their hands on a copy and dumped it. So it may be unreleased, but it's not a fan translation or a patch. I would think that it would be okay under the site rules, but ultimately that's up to Bisqwit.
I'm in favor of seeing more RPGs done, specifically:
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
Chrono Trigger (someone was doing a 100% run, weren't they?)
Earthbound
Earthbound Zero (Mother 1)
Star Ocean
Pretty impressive run you have there :) but I must say that i prefer a bit more the Pokemon Red movie in SDA (http://speeddemosarchive.com) because your's looks soo fake since you have used luck manipulation (or what ever) to prevent the random battles and to cause critical hits in fights.
Well, that's kinda the point of the site. If you're using an emulator, you're not supposed to be subjext to the same limitations as a console. If Tilus wasn't perfectly manipulating luck, his video wouldn't be accepted.
Very nice program.
However, it brings up the question of Dig vs. Earthquake again. The program says that Dig only has a power of 60, which is what I originally thought. Earthquake's power is 100, almost twice that. It still might be faster to grab Earthquake after all.
It really doesn't sound that interesting, to be totally honest. Family Feud's not the kind of game that seems like it would work for a timeattack. But to be fair, I would've said the same for Monopoly, and that was published, so who knows?
Earthquake is in a floor X of silph co. and requires defeating a trainer. Earthquake and dig have the same power of 100. Dig is useful for many pokemon before you'd have a chance to get earthquake, so there is no reason to give it to any other pokemon.
...So it is. Huh. I could've sworn Earthquake was stronger. It's still faster to use, but probably not worth it if you have to beat a trainer.
Finished watching it. It's a very good job, and I look forward to seeing the final version. A couple of questions/comments:
1) How far out of the way is TM 26 (Earthquake)? It's a stronger move than Dig, and it's faster since it only takes one round to use. I'd think that if it's near your path through Silph Co. at all, it'd be faster.
2) And if Earthquake is better for Blastoise, then you should probably pick up a Sandshrew on your way to Cerulean instead of Bellsprout. Sandshrew can use Cut, Dig, and Strength, which might reduce the number of extra Pokemon you need to catch. (He can use Fissure too, but boosting his speed enough to use it might be problematic.)
