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I have resumed working on this project. As of today, I have added to the TAS first-pass basic routing from levels 5-1 to 10-7 with a total time of 1h59m22s. Updates to the levels showcased in the previously linked WIP include resyncing to BizHawk 2.9.1 and improved routes in 3-2 and 4-4. After all is said and done, I'm expecting a final TAS time of just under 2h30m. I will post an updated WIP if I go on hiatus with this again before completion.
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The two potential TAS categories I see discussed for this game the most are for Grand Prix mode and Mission mode. It's also not difficult to see why a TAS of either has not been finished yet: there is a significant amount of effort required to optimize each of these with 32 tracks and 63 missions to work on. However, there are two other potential TAS categories that I think would adhere to the rules of the site which would require significantly less effort to make: Shine Runners and Balloon Battle. I'd imagine a TAS of each would simply consist of beating 7 Hard CPUs on each of the six battle maps.
Shine Runners would be by far the easier TAS to make as each stage would only last exactly 1 minute as the player collects all 9 shines and the CPUs get none. So, the TAS time is relatively trivial to optimize. The high-effort part comes to play in how entertaining the TAS author wants the movie to be. Interspersing the TAS with powerslide turbo boosts and sniping CPUs with green shells, bob-ombs, and banana throws might increase the entertainment value of the run, but also the level of effort.
And then there's Balloon Battle. Unlike Shine Runners, there are no fixed-timer benchmarks to meet here, so every frame counts. The Nintendo DS, Twilight House, and Palm Shore stages might be the quickest stages to TAS because you can get CPUs to lose 3 balloons practically at once by first hitting them with an item, then shrooming into them before their I-frames start, and simultaneously knocking them off the stage with the shroom. Tart Top on the other hand might be a nightmare to optimize because there is no out-of-bounds to knock CPU players into and the inconvenient locations of the item boxes do not allow for sandbagging. But with only six battles to work on, I still see Balloon Battle as an easier TAS effort than both Grand Prix and Mission Modes.
I bring these two modes up because we still do not have a TAS of MKDS up on the site yet, but if someone had the motivation to do a Shine Runners or Balloon Battle TAS, it might be a relatively quick way to finally get one published to the site. I would volunteer to make such a TAS myself but I don't have the MKDS TASing know-how to pull it off. Let me know what you think!
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Treasure Cove!
This was the only DOS game I had as a kid so it has a special place in my heart. Though it is a simple children's game, it is also rather long, the end goal being to rebuild the rainbow bridge. Luckily, a speedrun of it has already been done, so a whole lot of new routing or investigation won't be required of the TASer.
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With the acceptance of Windows XP and now Windows 95 games through PCem + libTAS, it's time I submitted my comprehensive wishlist for Windows PC games! Each one of these games I've had at some point as a kid, and each has a special place in my heart in one way or another. I will not be TASing any of these games myself because setting up the environment for Windows emulation is too technical and way over my head. All hyperlinks lead to either the speedrun.com page or the world record run for routing and other references.
1. Jurassic Park III: Dino Defender
This is the Windows game I'd like to see get TASed the most. Not only would this game be an easy TASing effort, but optimized routing has already done—I have speedrun this game heavily, have put up a very optimized record for it, and even played it at AGDQ2020.
2. Ballance
A 3D marble rolling game similar to Marbleblast except the ball cannot jump. It is heavily physics-based and has some pretty wild hyperspeed glitches that would make for an extremely entertaining run. I have no doubt a TAS would be able to find and showcase new strategies as well with the superhuman element at play. I should say it would require a high TASing effort, though, as optimizations for taking the tightest lines, cutting corners, and speed management will be required everywhere.
3. Star Wars: Empire at War
My favorite RTS of all-time, available on CD-ROM or Steam. The three campaigns are already well-routed, showcasing many skips that a TAS would use and possibly find more of. I would also love to see a TAS of this absolutely dunk on the enemy forces in every battle, and have perfect resource management on the galactic map. This would require a High TASing effort, as optimal directing of your forces in battle will likely require lots of micro-management to make sure they take the fastest lines and attack as efficiently as possible.
4. Reader Rabbit: 2nd Grade
A simple children's platforming game which is already well-routed with a solid speedrun record. This makes for an easy TASing effort.
5. The Fairly Oddparents: Shadow Showdown
This one is just a collection of simple minigames and also already has a well-routed and solid speedrun record—another easy TASing effort.
6. Rocket Power: Extreme Arcade Games
The goal would be to beat all four games to reach the credits screen. Hockey Shot, Rocket Pogo, and Roller Rocketball are all simplistic games, but Sandcastle Slam will be a bit more involved. So I would give this one a medium TASing effort overall.
7. Timon & Pumbaa's Jungle Games
The goal would be to play each minigame till the last levels which features new content, all of which are laid out in the category rules on the speedrun.com page. Medium TASing effort.
8. Treasure Cove!
This would be an easy TASing effort due to it being a children's game but is also very long. The end goal would be to rebuild the rainbow bridge but requires many, many playthroughs to do so.
9. Ratatouille
This is a 3D platformer so expect a high TASing effort. Thankfully, this one has a very dedicated speedrun community so much help and resources will be available.
10. Nanosaur 2: Hatchling
It's kind of like a 3D flight simulator except you're a pterodactyl completing the objectives! Medium TAS effort.
The following 3 games have no speedrun resources available on the internet but I have compiled some speedrun and routing notes on each of these privately. If you are interested in giving any of these 3 games a go, send me a PM and I can pass on the resources I have for them!
Matchbox Caterpillar: Adventures in TimeJack's AtticCyberchase: Castleblanca Quest
And here's a list of all the point-and-click or typing games I have some nostalgia for, all of which should be very easy TASing efforts due to their simplicity. If you also feel nostalgic for any one of these, I encourage you to give it a go!
3-D Dinosaur Adventure
3D Undersea Adventure
3D Human Body Adventure
Arthur's Thinking Games
Aviation Adventure
Barrow Hill: Curse of the Ancient CircleFreddi Fish and the Case of the Missing Kelp SeedsGregory and the Hot Air Balloon
Highlights: Hidden Pictures Workshop
I Spy: Spooky MansionJumpstart Adventures 3rd Grade: Mystery Mountain
Math Workshop
Pajama Sam 3: You Are What You Eat From Your Head to Your Feet
Reader Rabbit Math: Ages 4-6
Reader Rabbit: Preschool
Roller Typing
Scooby-Doo: Jinx at the SphinxScooby-Doo: Phantom of the KnightScooby-Doo: Showdown in Ghost TownScratchesShape ShifterSpongebob Squarepants: Lights, Camera, Pants!
The Adventures of Ricky Raccoon: Lost in the Woods
The Magic School Bus Explores the Solar System
Toy Story Activity Center
Toy Story Animated Storybook
Winnie the Pooh: Kindergarten
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feos wrote:
Is there Cpadolf's input in this movie? Movie metadata indicates their movie was imported into bizhawk.
I had originally imported Cpadolf's published TAS from Gens into BizHawk with the intent to reuse the inputs from power on all the way to the first ring of Beedles (the flying enemies that spawn in groups of 4), where the path would diverge. However, after figuring out that changing Vectorman's actions on the Sega logo screen can alter lag and Beedle RNG within this short stretch, I would eventually completely rework the input in both places to yield less lag and no bomb drops from the Beedles. So none of Cpadolf's original input is retained in the final movie, unlike my work on [5623] Genesis Vectorman 2 by Winslinator & Cpadolf in 07:57.82, which reused a sizeable amount of Cpadolf's input in some places.
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nymx wrote:
Low% brings in a very touchy situation here. Since these kind of runs are rare, the rules didn't include them in "Standard". Yes, we have them on the site and they were submitted during a time when the rules were much different...but now, your run would be subjected to audience feedback. When the time comes, I will reach out to the community on Discord and try to reel in some comments.
Yeah, with not much detail in the rules concerning these types of submissions, I was curious what the fate of this would be. Thank you for doing your due diligence on the subject, seeing that language be added to the movie rules, and accepting!
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Yess!! Congrats on finishing this project! I figured this was an on-and-off project for you, but part of me was almost worried you had forgotten about it lol. Biggest thing i gotta note here are those routing changes in Level 1, 4, and 7 which were some very nice outside-the-box ideas I would never have thought of. I'm honestly kind of surprised the total amounted to less than 3 seconds of time gain when put altogether but it just goes to show how good of an eye you had in order to spot that.
I was able to shave 2 frames of lag off this submission by avoiding the enemy kill in room 3 on Level 9. Here is the updated movie file. I looked into the other enemy kills as well but ran into problems that perhaps nymx could provide more insight on:
Level 2: I was able to cancel this kill but faced some very difficult enemy patterns in the next room. I was wondering if manipulating more favorable enemy RNG in the next room was the very reason nymx opted to kill this enemy. If so, then I know it's probably not something worth fiddling around with then!
Level 4: I was able to cancel this kill but when I did so, something changed with the treasure hitbox—I had to progress an additional movement step inside of the treasure in order to collect it for some reason. This is just one of the many minute oddities with movement that exist in this game which I still don't understand. Without the kill, I'm leaving the room with a net loss of 6 frames.
Level 8: I was unable to cancel this kill.
Also, at 1:30 in the encode, I noticed you bumped the wall rounding the corner there on the overworld map. Just wanted to make sure this was intentional and not something which was overlooked.
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Alright everyone, time for another update from Favini01!
A huge time save was found in the Land Below that utilizes the backwards bouncing off enemies trick to full effect. Reworking this into a full-game TAS context, this means we would do the Maximum Levels TAS strat of using Skycutter for the second half of the level instead of Eyeclops, avoid the telepad and collect the 10 diamonds (so that's 10 extra diamonds for the Any% TAS) and then get a hyperspeed bounce off the scorpion in the hallway. This would end the level as Skycutter with 1 HP, so it would also save a full transformation animation in the Final Marathon.
Link to video
A brand-new technique which we have given the rather appropriate nickname of "Edging" is a strat as fascinating as the nickname is sensual, LOL. As Favini describes it:
To sum up, you can fall off a ledge and land on the same ledge. Just make sure to duck before falling; otherwise, you would fall down since you would instantly go 1 pixel lower after falling. This method allows you to inflict damage every 6 frames.
Below is a video where Red Stealth uses Edging to obliterate Shishkaboss. In a full-game context, it looks like this technique may go on to only yield a timesave in Boomerang Bosses (no video of this yet), as the new methods for beating Shishkaboss and Bagel Brothers with Berzerker appear much faster.
Link to video
And yes, the strat also works with Maniaxe!
Link to video
Breaking through the Beneath the Twisted Hills rock block wall as Kid. That's right, you can now break a block even if you are adjacent to it from below. How is this possible? As Favini says:
If the character is near a wall and he turns around right before a bounce, he will break the block of the wall right above him.
The question is, can it be done with Micromax? Not to worry, this trick works with any helmet!! I would guess that Micromax can beat this level even faster than Kid, as no manipulation of the nearby shifting blocks would be required. Thus, this discovery just straight up saves at least 25 seconds over the current Any% TAS. Truly remarkable.
Link to video
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PiePusher11 wrote:
RetroEdit wrote:
I have an idea for reducing the number of bob-omb spawns in Egg Modern, but it crucially depends on whether recreating the RNG necessary for the rest of the movie to sync is possible. I'll make a follow-up edit to this post in a few hours about my findings.
This would be nice if you could come up with something.
If you have any ideas for RNG manip in DK Jr Modern too, that'd be pretty huge! Dropping fruit on enemies (especially 2 or 3 at a time) is far more efficient than running through the screen normally, so if there's some better way to manipulate that so I'm always able to hit the maximum number of enemies every cycle, there's probably significant timesave to be had there. Not that I necessarily expect that'll be easy/possible to find, but it'd be nice to get a second set of eyes on it.
If you two are cancelling this submission and will be redoing Egg, now would be a good opportunity to set up a GBL movie file to also implement the time save available with Judge 2P. However, I would like to apologize as I once again stated something a little misleading in my original post.
When originally calculating the time spent on each minigame, I was merely taking the difference in timestamp between the start of each game and the next, not the start of each game and when 5 stars were attained. This is wrong, as it includes time spent menuing, and in the case of DK Jr. Modern Hard, it included all the time spent in the Gallery Corner as well! In reality, DK Jr. Modern Hard took 5m54s to complete and Flagman Game A took 5m52s; they are actually very close in duration, and shows that a better understanding of RNG in DK Jr. Modern Hard could easily push that to be the faster minigame overall.
However, viewing these minigames as fixed 5-star blocks to swap out in place of Judge 2P is also not the right way of looking at this problem either. As PiePusher mentioned in their original submission notes, one RTA runner split up a block of 5 stars by gaining 2 stars from Flagman Game A and 3 stars from another game, which is genius. Should we do the same here? Well here's a breakdown of how long it took to get each star for both minigames:
Flagman Game A:
1st star: 0:19
2nd star: 0:45
3rd star: 1:11
4th star: 1:36
5th star: 2:01
Total (menuing removed): 5:52
Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Hard:
1st star: 1:17
2nd star: 1:13
3rd star: 1:13
4th star: 1:05
5th star: 1:06
Total (menuing removed): 5:54
Based on the above, it would seem that the best option is to get 3 stars from Flagman Game A and 2 stars from DK Jr. Modern Hard. But once again, better RNG in DK Jr. Modern Hard could easily tip the scale to make 2 stars in Flagman Game A and 3 stars in DK Jr. Modern Hard the optimal route. The key will be whether or not the 3rd star in DK Jr. Modern Hard can be collected in under 1:11!
I looked at unintended consequences of this routing change as well and there doesn't appear to be any. In the above route, we would be entering the Gallery Corner with 32-33 stars instead of 35. This is OK as you only need 30 stars to unlock Lion. This is important because Peach's dialogue in the Gift building is shorter when presenting Lion versus Judge; something to be mindful of which is easy to overlook when considering routing changes.
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Finally, a TAS of this game which I played so much as a kid! And based on the submission notes, a well-researched one at that... While I would've liked to have seen a TAS of all the game's events, I understand that would've required significantly more effort, as clearly it was a monumental effort just to optimize these five.
While this doesn't play through all single-player events, I personally think this should be acceptable for the site since Ghost is its own single player mode, and it was completed in full here.
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InputEvelution wrote:
Are you sure about this? Checking the save file for my recent playthrough of Game & Watch Gallery 3, I have a total of 100 stars, whereas I should have 105 if this was the case (I got 5 on all modes for Mario Bros). Additionally, this would mean the max stars achievable is 175 instead of 150, which doesn't line up with what I've seen online. (It also makes putting a "Congratulations" screen at 150 rather than 175 a bit strange...)
So it looks like InputEvelution was right to call this claim into question. I did some rigorous testing and the 5 extra stars seems to be completely not a thing. I even loaded up PiePusher's movie file and right after Donkey King Jr. Modern Hard finished, I scored 1000 points in Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Easy, ending up with 40 stars... exactly what you would expect if my claim was not true. This is wild because I believed this to be a hard fact for the past 15 years, which is why I was so boldly stating it in the previous post. Now I'm wondering what led me to believe this in the first place? Did I think that just because there was a mere cosmetic addition of 5 stars to the select screen after you get all 20 for a game, that must mean it's also reflected in the actual star count? And I didn't even check my math or anything? It just seems very unlike me to do that. Since I find it very strange that I believed this bizarrely specific fact for so long, I almost wanna say this doesn't rule out that a special condition may exist which triggers counting of the extra stars, so I will strikethrough everything in my previous post having to do with the 5 extra stars claim. Everything else concerning routing changes with 2-Player Judge should still be accurate.
One more thing, I actually found references to a similar thing in all three of the walkthroughs below. If you Ctrl+F for "sixth star" or "6th star", you'll find the references. Funnily enough, I don't seem to be the only one who believed beating all four game modes awarded actual bonus stars rather than just cosmetic ones, as it seemed to be an internet rumor around the time these guides were written.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/197424-game-and-watch-gallery-3/faqs/34170https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/197424-game-and-watch-gallery-3/faqs/6945https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/197424-game-and-watch-gallery-3/faqs/6292
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Now this is a TAS I've been wanting to see since I first discovered TASing over 10 years ago. Thanks for finally getting one out there and I applaud you for your efforts! This is a game I had from a very young age and I got so into it I even posted many scores on https://cyberscore.me.uk/
So given that I've played and thought about this game a lot, I think there are two routing improvements to be had here. The first actually involves finishing off Donkey Kong Jr. with Modern Easy. This is because once you've earned 5 stars in all four modes for one of the base games, you're awarded an extra 5 stars. And since this TAS already completed three of the Donkey Kong Jr. game modes, that means getting 1000 points in Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Easy effectively awards 10 stars!
The second involves getting 99 points in the 2-player Judge mode. Now, I know this one is a bit trickier because you need to set up the Game Boy Link (GBL) functionality in BizHawk, which allows you to TAS in two different GBC's side-by-side. I would think the simplest way to handle this would be to just record identical inputs into both systems until you get to Judge, where the inputs would then diverge for the two GBC's. Unfortunately, I don't think you can simply import this movie into TASstudio when GBL is enabled and then go from there. I think you would have to manually re-enter all the inputs you did in this TAS into both GBC's because the architecture of the input files is different.
Now, I was able to get the Game Boy Link functionality to work in BizHawk and can not only confirm that Judge 2P is indeed playable, but you are also rewarded 5 stars when you reach 99 points, as expected. Surprisingly, Judge 2P is even faster than Judge 1P because the characters do not tap their feet before each round for some reason!
Here's how I enabled GBL functionality: BizHawk toolbar > Tools > Multi-disk Bundler > set system to GBL > load the Game & Watch Gallery 3 ROM into the bottom two fields. This will create an XML file for G&W Gallery 3 that can be loaded just like any other ROM, and will launch two linked instances of G&W Gallery 3 simultaneously.
So now let's talk about alternate routes now that the above has been discussed. Here's how long each of the minigames relevant to this discussion took in the TAS:
Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Hard: 6m08s
Flagman Game A: 5m55s
Egg Modern Easy: 4m37s
Turtle Bridge Modern Hard: 3m58s
Egg Modern Hard: 3m57s
Judge 1P: 2m 43s
Given the times above, it seems like the reroute options would be to either:
Replace Flagman Game A, Egg Modern Easy, and Turtle Bridge Modern Hard (14m30s collectively) with Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Easy and Judge 2P (which may only take about 8m30s if we're lucky) for a potential 6-minute time save! This seems like the best option but is also obviously a lot of effort as much of the TAS would need to be redone due to different RNG.
Now, Egg Modern Hard was only 1 second faster than Turtle Bridge Modern Hard in this TAS, so the right game to remove between the two could honestly go either way. However, my gut feeling is that removing Turtle Bridge Modern Hard is the way because this would force different RNG going into Egg Modern Hard. Watching Egg Modern Hard in this TAS, I thought there were a lot more bob-omb spawns than I was expecting and just have a feeling different RNG may present an opportunity to get an even better time there. Maybe your experience in TASing the game lends some different insight
You could also simply replace Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Hard with Judge 2P (might save about 4 minutes?), which would be considerably less effort than the above.
If Judge 2P is found to not be viable for whatever unforeseen issue with the link cable functionality, we can still replace Flagman Game A and Egg Modern Easy (10m32s collectively) with Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Easy, which might also save about 4 minutes.
Hopefully the above was insightful, and that making such an improvement isn't too much work. Regardless, I voted yes here, and would be glad to see this published even if the improvement doesn't happen. Do also let me know if anything I've said is inaccurate. Finally, just some random comments with timestamps from Donkey Kong Jr. Modern Hard I felt were noteworthy:
24:19 Would it have been faster to move to the right first, trigger the coconut, potentially get 15 points, and then proceed to get the key? I've done this maneuver a lot hen playing casually because it feels like the faster play but let me know if your TASing experience has shown different.
26:10 Did not know you could stomp a bullet bill like that if you jump first!
28:12 Did not know you could do that either!
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Please replace the movie file I originally submitted with the one below which hopefully has the correct time. Not sure where the extra time in the original came from.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638517412531524398
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DrD2k9 wrote:
If not maxing out the distance on the last round is 3 frames slower than this submission, then don't change it and make a longer overall run. We obviously wouldn't want a longer any% run.
Sorry, I meant to say that the movie would only be 3 frames shorter, not slower, if the 416-yard longest drive goal was taken away. My apologize for any confusion brought on by that.
DrD2k9 wrote:
The game also "very clearly and unambiguously" displays each round's drive distance on the Score Board screen, so I don't feel that only the round score being shown on the driving screen is a very strong argument as to why distance shouldn't be considered.
Yeah, I will admit, the score board does "very clearly and unambiguously" display each round's drive distance on the score board screen, in addition to win count. But that doesn't necessarily mean drive distance ought to be considered in the scoring metric. For instance, baseball score boards track all kinds of metrics besides runs which include hits, errors, balls, strikes, and outs, and I think we can all agree none of those latter parameters should contribute to a final score tally in any sense. So I don't feel that drive distance merely being displayed on the scoreboard is a very strong argument that it should be considered.
DrD2k9 wrote:
... I'd still feel that [drive distances] would be a better metric than simply rounds won. Mainly because, maxing out the drive distances leaves nothing else to maximize for the game; where only winning all rounds (with less than maximum distances) does leave something else that can be maxed out.
I guess let's first ask the movie rules what the "maximum score" goal actually is:
Score Attack: Aiming for maximum score while otherwise completing the game as fast as possible.
Well that's literally all it says. It gives no mention that you must include any sort of ... secondary measurements of in-game performance in with your maximum score, which is really what the yardage is. It's just a tool the game uses to assign the points. Lumping yardage into the score equation simply because it is "something else that can be maxed out" is beyond the scope of what the movie rules say "maximum score" actually is. Take NES Tetris "maximum score" for instance. We can all agree it sure did max out the score but let's not forget there's also a whole bunch of other metrics on screen as well. Should the authors have maxed out the line counter as well? The level counter? There is certainly "something else that can be maxed out" in many, many maximum score submissions on this site. And my argument is just because there's something else you could max out doesn't mean you must.
Let's also not forget about Olympic-style games like NES Track & Field "max score, playaround", where many events give you three attempts, saving only the best score/time. It appears to be common practice in Olympic-style TASes to max out on the first attempt, and simply foul out or get a low score in attempts 2 and 3 to save time. Why is that unanimously seen as acceptable TAS practice? I mean clearly, the score on attempts 2 and 3 could have been maxed out as well and be perceived as an overall higher performance on the scoreboard. But I know what everyone's counter-argument is. At the end of the day, attempts 2 and 3 don't matter because your final score at the end of the event is equal to your best. And that's what I'm saying here about Long Drive Golf. Whether I win the round scoring 416 yards or 342 yards, it doesn't matter because the final score awarded at the end of the round will be 1 regardless.
Lastly, page 17 of the the plug and play unit's instructions manual explains Long Drive Golf. Of particular relevance to how the game defines "score" is point 6:
The computer keeps track of each player's score and the distance of each drive on a separate scoreboard screen. Following each round, the player that hit the ball the furthest will be awarded 1 point. At the end of 11 rounds, the player with the highest score wins.
The first sentence goes out of its way to imply the "distance" is a separate thing from the player's score (i.e., the win count).
Regarding the last sentence, if the player with the highest score wins, that must mean total yardage is not considered score ... that's cause you could play a game where you get a higher total yardage than your opponent but still lose.
And I know somebody out there might say "instruction manuals shouldn't count as evidence of anything whatsoever because they're a separate entity from the game", or whatever. But instructions manuals have been used to support judgements in the past. This submission in particular would have been accepted had the instructions manual told the player how to perform the cheat which the TAS used.
nymx wrote:
If you still don't agree, we can certainly discuss this among our staff.
Please do so, I believe I've presented all the arguments I have to the table.
TL;DR I maxed out the win count because it constitutes the score. I did not max out yardage because it is not the score. Therefore, the "maximum score" goal is met.
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nymx wrote:
Can this submission be reworked to salvage your movie?
Yes, very easily. I can remove all discussions from the notes regarding maximizing drive yardage and define score solely based on # of wins. The movie would just require a minor tweak at the end to not max out the 416-yard longest drive, and would only be 3 frames slower shorter. I agree with most of DrD2k9's points, especially that I admittedly went for a weird amalgamation of scoring metrics. However, I would argue # of wins is a better metric for basing "maximum score" on than total yardage. This is because the game very clearly and unambiguously labels your # of wins as "SCORE" on the driving screen. And that was my main intent with this "maximum score" submission. I think if a future submission wanted to max out total yardage the branch should be called "maximum yardage" instead.
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I don't think anyone is tackling improving those TASes right now, though there are many known improvements that have been discovered but not yet reported in a centralized manner. Maybe I should do that one day in this thread. Anyway, Favini's main focus seems to be on TASing the ROM hack Kid Chameleon 2: Heady Metal's Revenge, and a TAS of the full game was being worked on for a while, but I believe the project had to be put on hold for a bit due to the immense amount of work involved. I don't blame them, optimizing movement in this game can be a real pain.
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The Ooze
I believe this is the third time it's been requested in this thread but I can't believe there isn't a TAS of THE OOZE yet!!
The game is so freaking hard and totally deserving of the TAS treatment.
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Game & Watch Galley 3
Ever since seeing Darkman's TAS of Game & Watch Gallery 2, I've wanted to see one of Game & Watch Galley 3 as that was the game I grew up with.Bugs Bunny in Crazy Castle 4
Similarly, Alyosha and Brandon's TAS of Bugs Bunny: Crazy Castle 3 renewed my interest in seeing Bugs Bunny in Crazy Castle 4, as that was also the one I grew up with. I was working on one for a while but have since stopped completely. While I don't ever plan on returning to it, I thought I should link my progress should anyone want to pick up where I left off. I managed to TAS all the way to world 4-5: Download the WIP here
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I stopped working on this project years ago and while I still don't plan on returning to it, I thought I should link my progress should anyone want to pick up where I left off. I managed to TAS all the way to world 4-5: Download the WIP here
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I was wondering what, specifically, the latest movie rules mean by "adding gameplay" when pertaining to the use of in-game codes.
In-game codes that add gameplay are allowed for a separate branch, as long as such codes are used optimally. Codes that modify or disable in-game mechanics are not allowed, unless they unlock an in-game item or a skill that does that.
In particular, I want to talk about things like "final boss" and "credits warp" codes, as while almost all instances would remove significant amounts of gameplay over their full-game TAS counterparts, they often times do bring some new gameplay to the table. Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:
I submitted a movie to the site about 7 years ago for the Kid Chameleon "plethora warp", which requires a specific combination of inputs at a specific place in the 2nd level to the warp to the final boss. This was rejected simply for using a debug/cheat code. Clearly however, in-game codes are now allowed, but does this qualify as adding gameplay? While the cheat cuts out much of the game from the current publication, 52% of the gameplay in the video itself is new, as all gameplay after collecting the Red Stealth helmet in the second level is different gameplay you would never see in a full-game TAS.
I found a 1-frame improvement since making that submission so here is the updated video:
Link to video
Additionally, there is the Vectorman "credits warp", which is a code you input at a specific spot in the 1st level to warp right to the credits. Again, technically 64% of the gameplay in the video itself (not including the title screen) is stuff not seen in the published TAS, although significantly more gameplay is removed than is added overall.
Link to video
So my main question is what exactly is meant by the movie rules when the in-game codes must "add gameplay"? If a particular code also removes gameplay, how much must be added to offset what as removed? Do the examples I listed even count as adding gameplay or is this just modified gameplay?
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Bagel Brothers is done, and another 10 seconds of time save has been found for both TASes! Incredible! Though the video enters the level as Berzerker, you would actually enter as Cyclone in the full-game TAS. Not to worry though as there is a hidden Berzerker helmet near the start.
Favini also describes a time-saving technique I've never thought of nor have I seen anyone else discuss (edit: RandomPieIV has talked about it before). If you align the camera in a certain way when touching the flag (i.e., aligning the screen edges to the block grid), you can reduce the number of blocks on-screen and therefore the total time it takes for the screen to transition to the holodeck style. Even the types of blocks on screen make a difference—blank and background tiles appear to be removed at a rate of 7 per frame, while solid tiles convert to gray at a rate of 3 per frame. Favini saved 6 frames in this video just by taking all this into account. I calculate that at the two extremes (all-blocks misaligned vs no-blocks aligned) the holodeck transition can take anywhere from 40 to 105 frames.
Link to video
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Freddi Fish and Luther's Maze Madness
This is the one Windows game I would love to see TASed that wouldn't be impossibly difficult to make with current TASing tools. The game can be run through ScummVM, making it possible to be TASed through the Linux platform. I've even already did a speedrun of it as well. This run does not use the game's built-in cheats called "Junior Helpers" which give unlimited bubbles and/or unlimited lives and, while they aren't hidden features, I think a TAS that doesn't use them would be far more impressive. Check out the video and description for more info if interested.
Update: with Windows 95 and XP games now being accepted on the site, there are now multiple ways to TAS the game! It is available on both CD-ROM and Steam.
