Quick note: I found a new skip for the "no wrong warp" category with multiple controllers. (Or as we call it, 1p2c)
You can skip going to the Frost Gigas after getting Salamando. Normally what would happen if you do that is, in the Fire Palace you'd encounter the event "seed stolen", where the Mana Seed of the Fire Palace is simply not there, thus you can't continue.
However, by skipping the first orb you'd have to activate with Salamandos exploder in the Fire Palace (where all the lava is), that event will simply not occur and you can seal the seed and proceed to Southtown.
Oh wow.. I did not even notice that the Sprite was charging there... It looks like kind of multiple things overlap:
- Sprite gets hit at the exact same time the slime gets hit and starts charging at the exact same time (Without swinging before.. And it was player controlled)
- The slime dies at the moment when the snowman stops charging.. Actually, not accurately so?.. We also don't really know, whether the charge was simply released
Also an invalid animation from the Snowman is something we've encountered before, when then Boy gets into the cutscene right after the sewers as snowman, the game will softlock when it tries to nod the boys head as a snowman
Interesting..
I found it on Nicovideo :D
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm12572369
19:55
This seems entirely accurate to Regrs guess. The slime gets killed and basically the Snowman exactly vanishes alongside it. (My assumption it being Boy -> Girl -> Sprite is completely wrong)
I've tried to find some information on this and haven't come across terribly much. The guess from "Regrs" from the GAMEFAQ thread:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/588646-secret-of-mana/69150657?page=24
I haven't been able to reproduce this so far after trying for roughly 40 minutes. It seems to be a very specific circumstance in which this happens.
I've heard from different people that it happened in the Sewers and the Ice Palace. So it's almost certain, that the character disappearing is tied to the snowman effect.
What I have noticed is, that the game unloads already loaded enemies in order to make space for more Blue Slimes on the screen. The reason I know that:
- At the end of the Southtown->Northtown sewers, after the 3 goldfish room, there is a room where you get upstairs and enter next to a blue slime, which will immediately start multiplying. It happened to me on more than one occasion, where I got past the slime, one of my characters got stuck on the slime, and there was a missile from a goldfish from offscreen. But the slime multiplied anyways making the fish disappear.
Oh and one more thing - From what I've read, it only ever made the Boy disappear, never any other character. (Although, in one instance apparently it even made the Girl disappear as well, but only after the Boy disappeared)
Greetings SirMK, I have asked that exact same question before, and eventually I understood enough to figure out the answer.
Short answer is: No, you can't from all I know
Selling any item always only manipulates the 'amount' of an item you have. You do not create any new item by selling "BLAT". The "BLAT" is literally just the name you get when you have can select the items with the default value of "nothing".
Same thing with trashing equipment glitch. It also only ever affects the amount, but never the type of the item
Awesome work HHS, definitely like what I'm seeing ^^
Also, I agree with the branching of categories. While Touch-mes TAS is a bit outdated, it is still an extremely well-done work, which takes a drastically different route
Oh.. That doesn't show? I did not realize that, thanks for pointing this out oô
^ Since I now understand the thing about having "0" options in the address you described, a few questions in my post become obsolete. But I have a new one: Which actions manipulate that address back to "0"? Only the save-screen?
Edit: Also, my assumption is correct, that there can't be any text at all before the money-window appears, right? You talk to the NPC and it appears like the canon dude... Or would it work with the kind of pretext you have in the shop/inn of Pandora?
I know it works in the Inn of the Dwarven village, just tested that
So, a few questions:
- Would this also work on another place where the gold shows up when talking immediately? Like a shop in Pandora?
- Which kinds of windows/textboxes influence what's happening? Every single one?
-- Or I guess the more accurate question is: What other effects would it have to open various menus (stats, button config, behavior)?
- Can we in theory call every single script/cutscene in the game by using your setup (simply by selecting the correct order of options to reach the correct number?)
Further, apparently Rabites and Lullabuds can drop gold in chests, wouldn't that be faster than using the canon travel guy?
Oh... i finally understand the part about number of options o.o.. You want to have 0 to select any option you want
For people (like me) who dont realize it: There is a submission on the submission page by HHS. And its amazing ^^
Oh... And, HHS, you can get money with only 2 items. I think that should be faster
Edit: To be more specific
- If you have 2 items, put cursor on the 2nd one
- Sell both items
- Leave Sell-Menu
- Enter any other menu (like pressing Y outside of Neko or simply entering the Buy-Menu)
- Back into the Sell-Menu and you can sell those weird icons for money
So in conclusion, you literally don't need to farm any gold and also not open any chests, since Mantis Ant provides all the gold you need.
Major respect to you HHS for figuring out how this works. I managed to trigger the menu in real time a few times now, now I need to figure out the menus ^^
One question: Selecting the options is not time-sensitive, is it?
Edit 2: As in, do I have to get the perfect frame the first time talking to the canon guy? What happens if I get it on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. time? (as in, failing in an RTA attempt) Are the options to select any different? (still trying to understand what actually happens)
Edit 3: Also, is it relevant to use the barrel the screen before the canon guy?
The information about location not being loaded is actually something I assumed myself. It has no other source than that being the only explanation I could come up with and it seemed to be true for all instances where I came across that
But it makes a lot more sense if the distance between that character is simply not yet calculated.
Unfortunately, the only occrance of the glitch is what BJW encountered on his casual VC playthrough. I tried for quite some time, but couldn't reproduce anything so far.
A different question, in your gigantic data table of values, there is the follwing:
7ecc00 Player names
And later there is
7ecc24 Hats
Does that mean that the entire region between those is taken up by the player names?
Edit: Also, what was the reason that the Slow Down evasion lowering doesn't work? Is it possible, that it works on the last frame of the Slow Down effect?..
Wow...That's a lot of information, thanks a lot o.o
Does the chest spawning not having a location set at that point the first frame it's spawned have any significance? Since you can interact with anything loaded if the location-information is not yet loaded
Since there are separate RNG-values for bosses compared to regular enemies, is it safe to assume, that after a soft-reset, the boss should always behave the same?
Further, which values affect the boss' RNG? Does money/levels/stats/name of the characters matter?
On a sidenote, adding to Patashus comment:
As far as I'm aware, there is no way to use all 3 players in an SNES emulation. I tested it with Secret of Mana, but it did not work. I once had someone somehow involved in the development of BizHawk where I also mentioned it to him.
In the release notes I read, that in version 1.1.1 "SNESHawk - Hooked up controller 3 & 4"
But that was in 2012, so I assume there was no recent change to the 3+ player inputs on BizHawk for the SNES.
For those unaware: For the SNES you need to hook up and activate (!) a multitab device for the SNES tor recognize the 3rd and 4th player. There is specifically a switch on those multitab devices, where you can turn on or off those 'modes'.
--> It's probably not as simple like adding more controllers for other consoles
Edit: @Patashu, there are various small timesavers in Secret of Mana, but no actual big skip ^^
-> You can get past the guard in 2 other ways too
Thanks a lot HHS, this knowledge about the RNG could lead to a few interesting things - especially the portion where you say, that the bosses have separate RNG behavior
Also, I love those small bits of trivia, I'll check that out :)
Edit: Unfortunately I didn't manage to make the message appear or make the people disappear in any of the houses... I wonder what I'm doing wrong
I recently had an interesting occurrence:
- I was fighting the 2 wolves before you get the Girl
- During the fight I think the Sprite died, I revived him
- He got smashed some more, and lied on the floor
- The wolves obviously hit him, but meanwhile I realized, I forgot to equip him with his armor
- So I equipped him with the armor, strangely enough the wolves did no damage when the Sprite got up
- I killed the wolves and talked with the Girl, got her in the party
- When equipping her I suddenly had 3 Kung Fu suits in the equipment inventory
I'm not sure the event with the Sprite happened exactly like that, but something along those lines... Does it have any effect on the damage calculation or action taken, when equipping Armor while a character is on the floor and another "damage number" is queued up?
Another oddity on that: When opening the Equipment menu with the Girl, the cursor is set to a Suit, which is the one she has equipped, but the Head-symbol (which usually indicates who has what equipped) is set to another Kung Fu Suit
I would really like to have some input from the TASvideos-regulars on what you think about the case of "deactivating" or "unplugging" components during gameplay. I now found at least a minor case of it being useful in SoM which would save roughly half a second. I'm sure there are other application possibilities, but the point is - it would be useful in an actual run.. (If at any point someone dares to improve the current TAS that is)
For reference, my original post: