Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
I haven't checked this forum in a while but found your improvement today, great job. Several years ago I had found an improvement in A and held onto it thinking I try to improve the other levels as well, unfortunately life got in the way! I will see if I can't dig it up for you. Cheers!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
My first contribution is 3-4
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/296676277/AdvLolo2-3.fm2
About 142 frames almost 9 steps
I was able to find a very efficient way of manipulating Rocky. Besides the initial push downwards it only takes 2 1/2 steps of waiting for Rocky to come back around. I did spend an extra day trying to find a slightly better route, but in the end I use the extra steps to keep Rocky from pausing. The end manuvering saves about 10-16 frames.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
I know that a lolo shot will not block medussa so you can pass by.
Does anyone know if Fire will obstruct medussa?
Or if a shot stopping fire will block her?
Thought I could ask rather than spend time trying to figure it out myself
I disapeared for a few weeks. I just purchased my first home, moved, and it took forever to get my internet. Ill be putting more time in this :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Probably best is the first frame lolo moves (maybe the same thing?), the end sounds good. I'm unclear when the point is at the beginning myself. I usually -16 frames after lolo take one step in the level. I dont need 1-1,1-2,1-3 of course.
I spent about 4 hours on 1-4 I hadnt done it myself before. I was surprised to find that it was faster to go up through the sand rather than getting out of it to the left sooner and then up. only about 4 frames diff. There are about three other senarios that came to me since trying last night so I'll try agian tonight.
2-1 seems perfect all other attempts to redirect pusher takes the same steps
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Ok, Count me in!
I just need a few things that would make things go way faster for me.
Hanzou: Do you have the individual level frame count?
and doas anyone have BMP images of the start of each level. (something I did before that was a big help)
I have been very dependant on realtime play so any advice about rerecording/frame advance would be a great help. Just PM me. I just know the basic basics. slow down & record. Even just give me links if you feel appropriate.
Otherwise: I just watched the movie again. It's a very tight but I would make a bold guess that around 30%-40% of the levels are improvable.
I was aware of 4-1 as well just from the SDA vid
I am thourough, but also slow.(family/job) So you are forwarned. Besides patience is a virtue ;)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Thank you for your kind words hanzou.
I'm certain that my solutions would have been impossible to find without the solid effort of all the previous individuals involved.
hanzou wrote:
Keep up the good work.
Hmm... It's as if you expect me to continue to find improvements ;)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Thanks, it feels nice to set this game down. I finally have stretched each level to the best of my ability.
The 20% is just the number of levels I've managed to improve in relationship to the entire game 10/50 :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Found it!
You improved my 8-4 so I improved your 6-3 Baxter. ;) HA
This was the last level I was speaking of, and am glad to have found 4+ step improvement (about 69 frames)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/34673982/AdvLolo-1.fm2
I aviod waiting to pickup the heart on the first pass, and then dont use the emerald at all to block the either medussa.
Im really trying to keep my 20% :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Hey Baxter, I'm looking at one more viable improvement so if you want to hold off submiting for a little bit. If I cant find it in a few days perhaps everyone can help. I would say at this point there shouldnt be any more improvents over 8 frames.
I can think of maybe four exeptions:
1. If you could avoid waiting so long in 1-3 (Nitrodon proved this is impossible)
2. Better optimization of pushing in 8-5 (I exuasted most alternatives)
3. 10-1 Having the skeletons run wild differently (I tried many other options)
And the last..... ;)
I wouldnt be surprised if there where a half dozen sub 8 frame improvements throughout. But the they are beyond my basic TAS ability.
So this level will be my last possible improvement
I Really mean it this time :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Ouch! Nice
It gave me a bit of inspiration to check out the level some more though, and I was able to improve your version by another 20 frames! It involves using the snake for the second time not at the top left, but at the bottom left. 10-4 is now 46 frames faster than the published run!!
I got to work yesterday and realized I hadnt tried that option. I did know that going to the bottom was one step less, but when I got home couldnt find it.
Im very anxious to see...
Excellent :O !! I hadnt tried splitting the top left like that yet. I'm not sure I would have found that without another week of playing so my wife is very happy. :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Ive been quiet for a few days because my son was born on 1-15-09. Carter Evan Pike (my wife wouldnt accept Lolo Evan Pike) Happy Day. :D
Baxter:
It certainly wasn't my intention to be a co-author but I would be honored.
I've been playing when I get a chance and finally found the 8 frame improvement in 10-4 I had mentioned on the 28th. It might be a touch more or less than 8 frames. I dont know how to frame advance. It was my real time strat that helped with this improvement as I dont have to pause in the upper left corner. The difficult part was finding the pause in the upper right to time the Don Medussa.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1804779070/AdvLolo-6.fm2
I can now say I've improved 20% ;)
EDIT: Thinking about it before falling asleep, I realized this improvement should be closer to 1 step maybe 14-16 frames
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
After spending some time on level 10-3, I realized the only thing that keeps you from finishing the level quicker is the frequency of the Don medussa. (you have to finish the level in multiples of 64 frames - 4 steps) Since there isnt another solution that is an entire 4 steps improvement it should be impossible.
I had found many ways to get to the rock break faster, but a few did not have the snake present in time to push.
Then it came to me. What if I could use this to my advantage.
The idea was simple enough: I had to make the level faster to the rock break, but the snake appear more slowly. If I can break the rock, then get inside the snake that will shave of 8 frames.
This proved to be an extremely ridiculous task. After TWO WEEKS and a hundred variations I finally stumbled accross the key. This perfection is the result
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1496106543/AdvLolo-2.fm210-3 in .5 steps less
I really can't explain how satisfied I feel right now :D
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Sorry about the triple post. Baxter must be on vacation...... or maybe sick of me finding improvements :P
Made a 1 step, 16 frame improvement on 10-1 (Hey I was right about this level!)
This solution is sick. Again, its not what you'd expect.
Also I'll need your help Baxter on 10-4. I realized tonight that my realtime solution for this level MAY offer an improvement. It would only be like 4-8 frames. I'm just not that good at frame advance/slow mo.
You guys know of a website that will host my fcm files?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Its 4am here, and I'm very pleased to present a 24 frame improvement in 10-2 I achieved this by finding a more direct route to all the sleeper chambers. Starting with upper right I go clockwise. My route is actually 4.5 steps shorter (Thanks Randil) then the current TAS but there is more time wasted waiting for the sleepers.
Perhaps if someone else would like to look as well there may be more frames saved by better enemy manipulation.(Nitrodon) ;)
How close are we to sub 22:30 Baxter?
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
Edit: 12/26/08 I was able to modify this level to get a 3.5 step improvement - 56 frames over the current TAS.
This level I had been avoiding because of the "seeming" complexity, and to find the solution Id have to rely entirely on my emulator. My original idea was to save steps by not going from side to side, so the answer to this solution requires you to go in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction. I realized today I could start in the lower left because although you pass the upper right chamber to begin with you end up there regardless, so you dont waste time. Fortunatly this way aviods any enemy waiting. :)
This puzzle should now be optimal. The only other way I could see to save steps would be to:
1. to have the sleeper follow you out on the upper left chamber. less distance to walk out and back in.
I dont belive this works because then I cant go in the clock pattern as I get shot deprived.
2. Do two of the chambers in combination with each other.
Although a great idea, I tried several variations with no success. VERY close :( Edit: verified this again tonight 12/28/08 with a couple other variations
Hurray! I do believe this secures sub22:30
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Have you found the 110 yet Baxter?
309/5=61.8
309+96=405
405/62=6.5
.5sec=31frames
is my math right?
about 2 steps to get sub 22:30?
Thanks Randil Im sure that will give me more incentive to use my emulator! especially if i want to find sub 22:30
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Yeah, so I too had a few variations (mostly the begining) that I thought were all 114. Checked and double checked mine and thought they were all the same.
I had been using the method were you push the block down from the top left to bottom left then go indirectly around going underneath the block to push. But hadn't tried pushing directly down from top left to bottom left.
So I tried going directly and immediatly found, what I thought was your 112.
Then I went back to my own method of doing it indirectly and immediatly did it in 112.
So basically I was counting one of my inferior variations :(
and we may have had the same solution.
Regardless I found it in 110 steps :D
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
HA not sure what the hell I did.
So i said to myself wow he must have found an improvement on the variation I didnt try. Checked it and sure enough 112. So I wentback to my own and... WTF... 112. So the variation I counted was in err two steps bummer, its all you. Ill see I cant squeeze out any more steps.
Of course the solution involves pushing the block from upper left to upper right then going around and pushing down. :)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Incredible! 2-3 Go up and take one step right then go left, you'll get the rest :) I'd never seen it because I dont use your solution for this level.
Ill go back over the levels we dont do the same and take a tenth look. ;)
Edit: Sorry I just realized (two minutes later) its faster stepwise but may not time right with the don medussa
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Baxter wrote:
Wow, very nice. I wonder why we (or anyone else) never thought of going up there before blocking that second don medusa.
I'm not exactly sure what part your talking about. Do you mean blocking the right don madussa in that order? I did figure out that particular move order at the begining saves 4 steps over bringing down each block individually
I could probably write a paper on this stupid level :(
Although it may still be possible to improve I'm going to call it quits with this level. :) This solution was very satisfying to find. It has tons of split second timing. There is about a frame pause before coming bake up on the first pass down. More than say four frames and the don madussa will catch you on the second pass down, but more than say two frames and youll get caught on the third pass the way up. It was a nice lightbulb moment to push the third block further than nessasary, leave the heart, then finally get it (with protection) on the last pass down. Sweet.
Edit: I realized this morning that the way I get the second to last heart is optimal. If, in a seperate solution, I were to get the heart and go straight up to get the last box, I wouldnt be doing the boxes in combination (which saves two steps) So I would be gaining two steps but giving two away because its an inferior route.
So the solution I have actually only uses 1 step for timing and I feel even more content ;)
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTCwcwjzyCE
The idea was to avoid going back and forth on the second pass down. Also I believe not ending on the right side of the screen may save steps. I do have to give two away getting the last heart differently and one at the very end for timing.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Ok I lied :)
It came to me while I was driving home, and It actually worked. It only took me about 20 minutes to do, then I spent another 2 1/2 hours trying to improve further.
8-5 is now at just over 168 steps.
Wow thats 9 steps over the Current TAS
As much as I disliked it, I realized to improve further Id have to rethink the level again. It ended up easier than I expected.
Its stupid late now so Ill post it tommorrow.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(57)
Joined: 8/15/2008
Posts: 34
Location: Sacramento, CA
Nice! That made my day :)
Crazy, I had actually found the solution you mentioned but:
1. Couldn't replicate it consistentently in realtime.
2. Dismissed it for being slower. I was sure that the time you wait in your current solution was much shorter than the time it took to manuver the block into place.
So much for assumptions. I do like to be proved wrong ;)
I looked again at 8-5 with your begining but not pushing the right man down. I push it down 1/2 a step (1+ step total) then have to push the forth block 1/2 step further (1+ step) then the fifth a half step further (1+ step) but then need to wait 2+ steps before my last pass downwards. Unfortunatly I have to use a single frame earlier in the level to aviod the knife men. So it seems to be 1 frame longer! It's a real bummer because its a beautiful solution.
You may want to double check though because it was my first attempt at using my emulater to test it out.
Again, nice job, I'm spent for improvements so I'm very happy you found one :D
