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Mario would either have to jump at a shallower angle (which he can't) or lower (which there are no enemies around to do so).
Mario needs to be moving upward to clip fully inside of an object.
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The correct one has "slow" and "fast" timer settings. This matches up correctly with the original arcade version. The wrong one has "normal" and "fast" both of which run the game timer at improper speeds.
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There is still some potential for it, but I've tested quite a few ideas personally. One thing I never checked is the possibility of pausing at specific frames in order to alter he patterns.
That said, there are still ideas worth looking into, but I'm not sure if it's possible to save time.
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dunnius wrote:
andrewg wrote:
More and more I feel like I'm finding it hard to trust any above average gaming performance. Maybe I'm just a grump now, but many ridiculous speedruns (and other) come along often that I'm just not sure I believe. I may believe they are humanly possible, but I feel I'm questioning runs more.
That's why live streaming speedrun attempts is important and must be encouraged. Luckily in today's world this is easy to do.
Even this isnt foolproof though, especially when people only stream gameplay. I guess I am just super skeptical these days, and sick of cheaters...well, moreso I want accurate competition.
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More and more I feel like I'm finding it hard to trust any above average gaming performance. Maybe I'm just a grump now, but many ridiculous speedruns (and other) come along often that I'm just not sure I believe. I may believe they are humanly possible, but I feel I'm questioning runs more.
If I had to guess, I'd say that there are probably handful of TASes being accepted to be RTAs, and it's bothersome.
I was hoping maybe there was some knowledge out there that I may not be aware of that might make it easier to identify emulation. Does anyone have any useful information regarding resolutions? Frame rates and video resolutions seem to be the most identifying characteristics here.
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I am posting this because I am trying to find out if there is a way to determine whether something was recorded on an emulator or not.
With a video recording, is there a sure-fire way to know something was recorded using an emulator? There is a specific video I am looking at and cannot tell, and would like to know if anyone has very technical knowledge about emulation recordings, etc for this and future reference.
http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/153495-Nintendo-Entertainment-System-Top-Gun-NTSC-Points-1-083-200-Kyle-Nelson/page1
So here's a run which I think was performed on anNES emulator, but cannot say for sure with certainty. Help would be appreciated.
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MUGG wrote:
Did you play on NES or VC?
I have seen people trying to get their games to run and fail/or get glitchy graphics on NES. I think that pause thing is related to that. In other words, a hardware failure.
NES. All I know is that I was pausing as I reset and the game started up with no music, and no sound effects. Upon completing the first stage, it did not progress to 1-2 until I paused and unpaused, and that made it go back to normal.
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Lord Tom wrote:
andrewg wrote:
One thought/idea:
In 5-4, would it be possible to get a speed boost from the spinning bars at the very start of the stage? The reason I mention it is because in Ultimate NES Remix, this can be used to save time (but as Mario 2's princess), which means I have no idea whether this actually would work in any successful way here.
Just my 2 cents. Awesome run guys!
Glad you liked it!
I tested that 5-4 strat for the published run; you can finish the first screen faster, but then you go into the tube without P-speed and it ended up being slower due to losing time on the 2nd screen.
Would it be faster to do that initially and then get pspeed at the end of the 1st section? Just because id think the momentum would build pspeed slightly faster?
Though, im probably wrong haha... pspeed only builds on ground, so idk if extra momentum starting would build it faster or not. I just like throwing ideas out there.
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One thought/idea:
In 5-4, would it be possible to get a speed boost from the spinning bars at the very start of the stage? The reason I mention it is because in Ultimate NES Remix, this can be used to save time (but as Mario 2's princess), which means I have no idea whether this actually would work in any successful way here.
Just my 2 cents. Awesome run guys!
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I have the console speedrun record of this crap game :) That said, I think this is a good run. I don't see any obvious improvements, but I there is one glitch that I use in my runs that I'm not even sure saves time.
Also, did you know you can enter the doors in the last stage to avoid he bomb explosions? One spot seems to neglect this, but maybe it is actually slower than getting hit? I could be wrong here. Specifically 14:54 of the youtube encode.
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The goal is a bit odd because it's not well defined. Hopefully this isn't discouraging.
My 'Twin Galaxies rules' high score is basically just the highest score I could get without exploiting the koopa shells. Of course, this entailed me beating the levels quickly for the end timer bonus.
All I'm saying is that you're not going to get very far if you're submitting to TASvideos because I don't see a clear goal. The problem is that higher scores can be achieved by abusing the koopa shells. "Fastest time for the maximum score" doesn't work because you aren't getting the maximum score unless you run the timer down to 0 on most stages.
Sure, you could do a run with that goal, but it won't be very fast. Also, since the lives are unlimited, there really isn't a maximum score. :/ I guess I suggest "maximum score on 1 life," because it is interesting. I doubt it would be that interesting to watch though.
Again, I hope this isn't discouraging.
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Zakatos wrote:
andrewg wrote:
By removing the loops, you'd have to change the main route, and so it's not an option unless the goal itself is changed: (1 life, Most coins, all stages, no loops) vs. (1 life, most coins)
Yeah, but I'd not consider "all stages" as an extra condition for goal change, since it's the natural consequence for the "no loops" condition.
I also do not see any problems with it; this site had very many other publications using planty of arbitrary conditions, like "bad ending", "no Zero parts", "pacifist", "no running" and so.
I realized this after I typed it out, thanks for pointing it out. :)
I think that the current goal is probably the best one as far as entertainment. The loops are interesting, although not ideal. Most unique coins with deaths could be interesting, but as I stated before, I am sure that this would involve waiting for a timer to expire at some point. Also, it would be tricky to optimize the path and make sure you didn't recollect coins, etc (as happylee was stating), and also a run with deaths seems silly for this TAS.
Most unique coins on 1 life is basically this TAS without as many clever tactics. It might still be interesting, but I would personally find the current one to be more interesting.
Yes vote! :)
EDIT: This run for smb2j might be cool with the restriction of no backward warps.
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One weird mechanic that might have use in 4-2 (all coins TAS) or possibly anorher smb run is something I came across while TASing smb warpless a while back.
So heres the idea:
Grabbing a mushroom or taking a hit delays Mario`s forward movement. If this could be avoided, it would certainly save time. If Mario starts sliding through a wall at the same moment he takes a hit from an enemy, he will continue to slide through while being hit.
So I think that potentially more coins couls be grabbed in 4-2 because the timer also stops when you are hit by an enemy. Im thinkinh just 1 extra coin could probably be grabbed here.
As for the warpless runs, I am curious if this could work while grabbing a mushroom. If it is possible to start sliding through a wall while grabbing a mushroom, Mario might not be stopped, thus gaining time.
Just something to consider. I dont have the time to TAS at the moment, but this might have an application in some smb TAS.
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heh, uhh no, but that seems even better than the secret i was referring to. (my secret would still have application).
Weird. I don't know how that works! Is this possible in the original? It seems like it would be considering deluxe is nearly the same. But I don't get what's going on, which really surprises me. Thanks for posting.
Actually, I don't know if this would be possible in the original. How in the world was the shell destroyed by a small Mario? What the heck is going on? hahaha
EDIT: It seems that they changed some aspects of the game, but I'm still not understanding those continuous 5000pt hits. Even though this is in real time, this is basically what a high score TAS would be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUxvjWUxioY
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samurai goroh wrote:
Game Resources) but all you have to do is press B when you're about to die and you'll appear on top of the screen... (instead of having to swim through the wall)
As far as I know, this is not the case.
When lifts are involved, it is possible to loop top to bottom, but I've never seen it performed an alternate way. Either way, I don't think this would work to avoid the currents that pull Mario down. (EDIT: I see what you're saying now, but I still don't think I've ever seen this glitch happen)
----
My main point with my lengthy post is that it seems regardless of how you do a "max coin" TAS, you're going to have to use the fast forward function at some point. I mean, you could make one that doesn't have any loops or waiting periods, but I feel that category would be arbitrary, less creative, and not as interesting.
Max points would suffer the same fate as this regarding the fast forward function. The best scoring method would just be to find the earliest Koopa in each stage and hit it against a wall repeatedly until the time ran out. It might be interesting to see what is possible, but it wouldn't be nearly as interesting as this run.
I don't usually like to toot my own horn, but I did a high score run for smb by Twin Galaxies rules, and that was actually pretty interesting. The basic rule there is no abusing Koopas. A TAS following TG rules would be pretty awesome...
However, there is a secret scoring tactic that only a handful of people know about that might make such a TAS boring. I am considering making such a TAS :) I just think the goal is way too arbitrary.
My score run is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PUmN2xJX50
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HappyLee wrote:
JSmith wrote:
Step 1 - Get as many coins as possible without dying
Step 2 - Die
Step 3 - Beat the game as quickly as possible
Hopper262 wrote:
A goal of "maximum unique coins" would be a concise way to define a no-loops run. Such a run would need deaths to take alternate paths and reach as many of the 1225 coins as possible, but taking the same coin twice wouldn't advance the goal.
To be honest, I don't really get the idea of dying. Dying in SMB just for a few coins is definitely not cool to me. Besides, it's not easy to define "unique" itself, for the basement in 1-1 and 7-1 is actually the very same basement, and perhaps no one can remember exactly which of the coins have been gotten in that run, even if he's familiar with the map.
I agree with Happylee. However, I think there is some interest in how many unique coins are in the game. I don't think it would be too hard to track the unique coins because the fastest method would likely involve deaths (and game overs).
It would go like this:
1-1: 1) Collect all coins and take the pipe, die at the goomba upon exiting the pipe.
2) Start at the midpoint and collect the rest of the coins (including the one you didn't get the first life) = all coins in fastest time.
A problem already arises in 1-1 after the first death because you are no longer big Mario, which means you are missing coins from the 1st multi-coin block as small Mario.
Thinking about that run, would we have to make a TAS that goes through world -1 and then gets a game over to collect all those unique coins also?
In the end, it would be much easier to just count the number of unique coins by hand because otherwise you're looking at a TAS with tons of deaths and game overs to achieve it unless you start skipping multi-coin blocks.
"Most unique coins without a game over" seems tricky, but maybe interesting.
For example, in 1-1, you actually could get every unique coin (including the multi-coin block) without getting a game over. It would take two deaths to accomplish this.
For that proposed goal, world -1 would have to be skipped, and I'm thinking other unique coins would have to be also, but it could be possible to get all unique coins (except world -1) without getting a game over. However, I am willing to bet that even with this goal there would be an instance where you would just have to wait for the timer to expire in order to achieve the best outcome.
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This is really nice work. This is my theory on how to possibly get more coins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQW4HVavpAM
Potentially I am correct? I haven't tested it to know for sure. It might end up being the same in the end really, but it's a thought I had. :) Forcing the floating pipe to wrong warp Mario send him back to where you would be it you just ran straight forward to loop this area. It appears you can get Mario to that pipe quicker using the above method. Though, it might not be enough to gain extra coins.
As for the run itself: I found it interesting. Before I watched it I imagined that the 4-2 trick would be banned and assumed it would have to go through all levels. However, I was pleasantly surprised even though potentially it makes it less interesting to watch. The goal is most coins on one life, so the loops make sense.
Without the loops, the run would no longer have the best route for the maximum coin count because obviously world 5 is skipped here. The reason it is skipped is because more coins could be obtained in 4-2 by looping the warp zone area than traversing world 5 (clever).
By removing the loops, you'd have to change the main route, and so it's not an option unless the goal itself is changed: (1 life, Most coins, all stages, no loops) vs. (1 life, most coins)
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