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Posted: 8/26/2011 5:35 AM

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arukAdo

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What is the end date for registration ?

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Posted: 8/26/2011 3:46 AM

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arukAdo

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Well i managed to get past the plant and understood its mechanics thanks to positions address. So what happen is like waffle pointed out the camera give extra invulnerability (would there be a timer? didnt investigated this aspect), the thing is to have full speed and correct direction while you change camera for last time, this is done by first taking a hit so you bounce back and forth the cameras then start running, this give you oppertunity to run a bunch deeper into the tentacles than if you run straight from the door without boucing cameras. Once you reach a certain deep youll be able then to turn, and eventually make it so that the plant push you in a direction that will give extra invulnerability (theres 2 type of "push", one giving more invulnerability than the other), thing is, if you was to have a too low position then the plant will always push you away and you wont ever make it trought, but with the first boost from camera letting you go deeper, this let you recover nearer from the "edge" of tentacle action zone. We are at room 156/172

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Posted: 8/25/2011 9:23 AM

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arukAdo

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Thanks for the confirmation (this save me some sanity), Dacicus was kind enought to help me find position and direction address, i also checked their speed and they are equal, now i can make a real compare between Jill and Chris to find out whats wrong, and if theres any difference it would be the hitbox (but theres no evidence of this yet). We can also simply cheat now to get past the tentacles (test run) and verify the cons/pros or whatever happen with cutscenes (piano without chemical? heh). The biggest issue i think in the early stages for Chris will be the sword key (yellow key in serum room), zeno is able to dump it into the chest when he get the chemical, and we cant do that. We also are wondering if it would be better to shoot the plant instead knifing it, it seem not possible due to items management but yet it would be nice to see if theres a real difference, since theres 2 clip laying near sharks it would be possible ammo wise, eventually.

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Posted: 8/24/2011 3:44 AM

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arukAdo

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Also dont be so naive, of course magicians does steal their tricks to each others, hell theres even magicians schools, its not like magicians live in a different world where everything is fair ect... If every tricks was exclusive to any magicians they would all die with their tricks undiscovered and its not the case for vaste majority, its fun you take that exemple because i think a good magician is actually the one that have many tricks, so he "stole" (or learned or whatever) many of them probably, like moozooh sayd earlier you dont generate spontanously content like that just by luck, you do some yourself, and you take what others have to give, eventually you might also enhance them. (Note that im not saying somebody is unfair in this whole affair, i just dont agree with that comparaison)

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Posted: 8/24/2011 3:11 AM

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arukAdo

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I was more like thinking we can get up to 4 clips that way, shark storage + chest. I think only 2 clips may not work. If you have ideas to make that script to find crits im all open mind on the matter ;) (im not enought good at lua to make such) But i whored a bunch the snake, and i believe you cant get any extra critical from it. Edit: do you know if Chris can skip as well the chemical ? well if you ever got it working or it was just with Jill ? Edit2: after many fighting with tentacles i noticed things are different for Chris, i cant match the same pushes and he just wont align like Jill, it would really help to know if this ever worked for Chris or if its for Jill only. Just a confirmation would help me to investigate further because so far it look it doesnt work and im running out of ideas. Edit3: we cant tas chris if we cant know for sure he can sequence break the chemical or not, also its pretty unclear how it affect cutscenes flow

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Posted: 8/23/2011 10:52 PM

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arukAdo

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Im not worried by the ammo for gun, because theres also 2 clips in the storage room near sharks, and they are really on the way. Again, 13x30 damage is impossible, this wont ever happen unless the boss fight last for like 2 min instead 10 seconds, i only get 2x30 damage in this battle, and im fairly confident you cant get 3, even taking damage, 13 criticals is overkill. About item space saved, you wont save anything because youll need a slot for gun ammos (so you switch bazooka with clips, basicly)

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Posted: 8/23/2011 10:24 PM

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arukAdo

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Unless im wrong, maybe its the armor key ? the armor key would need the plant trick, so overall its still the same problem because you would still have to do all your tasks in the left wing, going for armor key but not doing the crystal sound bad idea for exemple. (we start from the hall) Im not sure to follow you for the rest, you say i would save 40 seconds or i have 40 seconds to beat plant+tyrant ? The difference between canceled movie and snake fight here is 9.5 seconds, im shooting 15 bullets and 2 grenades vs 5 grenades, its way more than 3 seconds lost i think (even considering to take damage) Edit: its impossible to shoot all bullets to do 30 damage, basicly its 1 critical hit per attack of the snake (and its fixed/frame based, work same for grenades), afaik no crits on regular zombies (but maybe it can happen somehow...) also they have recovery timers (shoot too fast > no dmg) We did made several tests on that zombie guarding the crystal, it was far better to just send a grenade for quick push of the statue.

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Posted: 8/23/2011 4:02 AM

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arukAdo

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Some of those questions are answered by the chris run i watched the other day (zeno) Without the bazooka this is a knife run basicly, look up ds submisions to find out its a lot slower to avoid the bazooka and rounds (and thats logic, given the HUGE difference in damage). A easy way to tell is that the 2 loosy grenades i use on snake avoid to shoot 11 (!) bullets. The problem with richard is that i dont know if its 5 or 15 minutes, and even if it was 5 minutes i think it would be already too long and i would have to hang around doing nothing. I think theres a cutscene if hes dead, and its probably lot shorter than letting him talk, and indeed barry would give ya the radio latter anyway. Also to get the key, i need to play the music, if you look at the map, going for this without getting the rest (crystal ect...) would be a insane waste of time since i would have to come back for them right after. But yes, _this_ is likely the place where we could save lot of time if its possible, richard cutscenes are the biggest slowdown. To answer your question, yes meeting barry in hall (acids) is what trigger the set "A", and you only meet him there if you went trought the right wing of the house (chemical route basicly, and no i see little point in putting chemical into chest since we dont even need it anymore!) To meet barry at the place with the bazooka, you have to avoid the acids cutscene, and do something else, then go get the bazooka. Since im getting the bazooka before anything else, i also skip this barry. I appreciate the brainstorming ! Maybe we can figure out something in the future, many stuff require complex testing so i wont invalidate all your theory in one go :p Im still unsure how we could properly deal with the plant, given the very limited ammos we have, but, barry is SLOW for killing the plant with flammetrower (around 1 minute), nobody going to get this out of my mind, the issue been the cutscene set required for avoiding barry save you, you have to listen to the 2 dialogues in 002 for this, pretty much nullify the whole idea, but this worth investigation imo (and would also require different route, ammo wise)

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Posted: 8/22/2011 6:45 PM

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arukAdo

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Oh wow thx So yeah this is latest revision, anybody have comments ? I mean spot something we didnt or things like that. This is 2:23 faster than canceled movie (wich end 1:03 too late), so the movie should be somewhere around 57:30, give or take 10 seconds depending how much improvement left

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Posted: 8/22/2011 4:20 AM

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arukAdo

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SoulCal wrote:

He also has a gun that causes a glitch that increases running speed.

That sound a lot like a valid reason to use sram (maybe seperate branch), is there support for that yet in movies ?

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Posted: 8/20/2011 4:11 PM

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arukAdo

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Right could be done with 4 acids, but since you are just unloading everything as fast as possible, its unlikely to do 130 damage twice in a row, and yeah im speaking of US DC, its slus00551. This is more important with explosive because of huge damage drop (basicly equal to gun normal damage) Edit: this also explain how zombies dont always die with the same ammount of bullets, there could be a max/min with many monsters. Edit2: well we got in troubles for caverns, we get full inventory for second medal, so we had to go backward and use the chest in serum room... dump knife and spray... lost a second and half but thats better than going for acid or some other option requiring to open doors.

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Posted: 8/20/2011 8:24 AM

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arukAdo

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zaphod77 wrote:

This doesn't even meet it's goal of minimal kill counter. There's a glitch involving the stopwatch and getting hit as it runs out and killing the boss at the same time that lets you not increase the kill count or get exp! People have reached the final save point with a kill count of ONE without tool assistance. Perhaps with that glitch, a kill count of 0 is possible.

Thanks but its me who discovered that glitch and who first reached the 0 kill count unassisted, and yeah i use that in the movie, the stop watch is only required for doopleganger, one way to tell this really happen is simply theres no level up when the kill occur (at level1 pretty much anything would make a levelup). Next time watch the movie at least before saying it doesnt reach its own goals. And try to get the heart refresh unassisted or without increasing luck, not even in a million years youll get it :p Ill fill more the submission text later, this isnt exactly a top priority thought so it may take a while, also the encode was replaced. Edit: on the previous youtube upload someone bringed up a good question that ill answer here since its not easy to figure, the reason im wasting almost 40 seconds to get the jewel knuckle is that the central clock room statue would be close if i was to go as fast as possible, there was no workaround for this.

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Posted: 8/20/2011 1:52 AM

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arukAdo

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Damage on snake (400HP) Acid max 130 min 80 Explosive max 80 min 15 Gun max 30 min 15 In the canceled run in order damage are 80-130-80-80-80. The address seem to be variable so it would change on any runs. This isnt a easy boss with the equipment we have, we are forced to do max damage with the 2 grenades, and we have to do max damage with gun twice. (2x30 - 13x15 - 2x80) So far we are loosing 10 seconds on the boss, but i think this can be reduced by taking damage, we are forcably going to be slower on this thought. Note the boss have to take over 400 damage or it doesnt die. Edit: well actually taking damage didnt helped much, this is a hard boss with our limited equipment, also it would seem you have limited oppertunities to do max damage, dont really see how to improve it, doors are like 5 seconds each so going for more ammo isnt worth it. We are still 2:17 ahead of canceled run after the snake.

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Posted: 8/19/2011 1:49 PM

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arukAdo

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Spider-Waffle wrote:

Does it take longer to avoid hearing that conversation through the door, or why was that done?

You cant avoid it afaik, we avoid the cutscene _inside_ 002 but we cant avoid the _outside_ one, seem to be direct result of avoiding the meeting with barry in the mansion hall (giving acid rounds) And thx for the comment, glad you like the run ;) To be fair i have to say ajax's run is getting better once we get back in the mansion, but we are still racking up some frames so its quite hard to make an estimation of the ending time, might drop to 57min if it keep on the same pace. Edit: Spider-Waffle was again right about damage, while fighting snake i did smell something fishy with damage, so i search for the boss hp, its impossible to register max damage if you unload all ammo on the boss right away, to be more specific, grenades are able to do up to 80dmg (havent checked yet acids) but if you shoot 2 grenades in a row the others are likely to do 15 damage, the boss have a weakness momentum or a recovery timer (that would still allow damage, but lower them). The plant may behave the same, ill have to make tests but it might be possible to save a grenade there if it would be same than snake.

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Posted: 8/19/2011 12:32 AM

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arukAdo

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My point was just that you was trying to justify your tas been slower or equivalent with realtime-gametime explanations, i dont understand how you could be "slower" than the human speedrun, of course now well you talk about the first few rooms so yeah i hope for better later, and i guess its just theres no action in thoses. I wasnt making critic just for the hell of it and i wasnt trying to be offensive, but i probly confused some stuff you sayd because you was starting to compare frames with sda runs ect... Try to keep it simple, but yeah i was sarcastic i dont doubt this should be good tas candidate.

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Posted: 8/18/2011 9:23 PM

Post subject: Re: Console vs Dolphin Load Time Differences

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arukAdo

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SoulCal wrote:

Well some TAS runs go for game time (several Metroid games do).

Its rare and often for good reasons (see sonic ect...), give us a good reason, theres none so far tbh, do we even get to see the game time screen at all, do we care ? Like you already mentioned this game have lots of loading, so you are suggesting to make the movie even longer just to win seconds on the end screen? imo this is very bad idea. We arent in sonic where every single levels (think rooms for re4) could be a whole seperate challenge and where pulling off any frames could warrant something more funny/entertaining, here its just toying with numbers. Ultimatly this isnt SDA so dont take game time objectives arbitrarly especially since this is something the site usually against (our movies are measured real time), if the runs arent comparable then it doesnt matter your time is higher than another run, given its still superplay, if your run doesnt do anything spectacular and is basicly just the same thing than a human would do, maybe you have a problem with the game choice.

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Posted: 8/18/2011 3:22 AM

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arukAdo

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For those who cant watch the movie or too lazy, i encoded the current progress Link to video The encode sux a little but oh well, this is ~ 2min20sec faster by the last door

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Posted: 8/16/2011 2:06 PM

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arukAdo

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Erh sry saw you went on IRC but unfortunatly i was in bed already, next time maybe :p (tips: the morning isnt exactly the best time) We use the DC version, DS have the screen "This game contain gore", so its a lot slower and yeah, all iso run at same speed (lol). Ultimatly, the game is sync friendly, this mean we can add some blank and actually DS will sync. Note also using analog is totally useless, so we dont. The main gain in re3 of jap version versus the us one is texts (shorter in japanesse so quicker to skip) more than fmv skiping, also bosses have less hp in jap version. This is likely the same for re1, yet remember that the canceled movie wasnt very precise so if you watched it you can except some serious differences with the current material we have, as far as i can tell fmv are lasting only for 1 frame here before you can cut them off.

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Posted: 8/16/2011 5:50 AM

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arukAdo

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Well i was about to make a long post to explain the cons and pro of the choices we are given here. But after thinking about it, im gonna make assumptions and say that barry will kill the plant faster than us (mainly because it mean to grab extra grenade to defeat it, and his long extra dialogue), so we are going to mix gun and the 2 grenades left for the snake, your idea seem the most logic, i made test he dont die with 15 bullet but with 2 nades on top he does. I also decided to use the aid spray earlier in the run (lion statue), this mean i dont need to access the chest anymore (dont have acid rounds...), we did store gun/knife previously so i had to resync all this, taking damage at the snake (may happen) will not be a problem, also he doesnt seem to poison you in that fight. Note: rapid shooting in this game work (like re3 basicly) yet its not very applyable, everything seem to have a recovery timer long enought so damage will not register (for the gun at least).

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Posted: 8/15/2011 8:58 PM

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arukAdo

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kthxbye

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Posted: 8/14/2011 2:25 PM

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arukAdo

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Im not sure about chris route, been forever i havent played him. Spider: well we take only 4 hits from the plant to catch the key, so it take maybe 5 seconds or so. (maybe that improvable but we havent managed to do better) Ill look into room 003 if theres flame rounds then we are all set i guess, any better suggestion? Also, that link cinematic flow chart suggest that skipping the barry meeting in guardhouse would lead to barry kill the plant, this may not be the best option (will probly require a test, killing it ourselves might be faster). Edit: as far as i can tell, we reach the serum room opening 9 less doors, almost 3min earlier than with previous route (and we was 20 second ahead the canceled run), now of course ill loose ~40sec in guardhouse and loose (?) some when going first floor right wing, since after richard i cant use the back stairs. I think this is pretty nice. For those interrested SVN logs are here and direct download are here. Jill.pjm is the current run Edit2: the flamme ammo in 003 are in the closet and theres a zombie inside, this may not be any faster than the save room. any better option ?

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Posted: 8/14/2011 4:13 AM

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arukAdo

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Ive been given unofficial clearance to do that run on psx (according to the DS judgement), theres many factors but full screen and nostalgia value are the most important i think, im sure youll have plenty occasion to voice what you feel is right when submision hit the bench. On the version matter i can tell the game is very sync friendly, its likely possible to sync on dual shock version for exemple, given you insert some blank frame for the extra "this game contain gore", i have no direct proof yet but its probable, the first release wont sync due to the lack of autoaim allthought. So back on topic, well we managed to skip the plant with as low as 4 hits (so its _very_ fast). Im still awaiting our experts to tell me what is the best option for ammo to pick up before the snake, im inclined to think guardhouse saveroom is the best since it should avoid me using the gun on plant, but im not sure if theres better available. Now of course if the snake doesnt die with 5 explosive im gonna get depressed, but it seemed to me original mode doesnt care at all the ammo types (all others boss arent affected)

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Posted: 8/13/2011 11:08 PM

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arukAdo

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I think we can safely assume that both chris and jill should be published, the fastest between them not forcably important. So i had to make tests for all this, because like you just pointed out, it change a _lot_ of stuffs. (theres on svn a successfully mega sloopy attempt at the skip/route) Ive tryed to simply calculate how long are the cutscene, but this is what happen. Barry dont give us acid round, this doesnt matter up to snake, it take 5 grenade + 5 bullet to kill plant. (shooting 5 bullet on plant will be better than using gun on the zombie guarding the blue crystal statue) You can skip the dialogue with bazooka by going to bazooka right after you split with barry (room5 that is), then you rush for armor key. In the guardhouse... you get 2 extra cutscene with barry. You still have to listen to wesker. Barry Acid Rounds cutscene last ~1:10, and it take ~1:00 for barry to kill plant42, the 2 extra cutscene are apparently ~1:40. Logic dictate its better to go that way, 6 less room to explore (minus the extra ammo pickup) on top of the ~30sec gain and shortcut to armor key, ive tested up to tyran and everything else work strictly the same. If you say we can remove the second cutscene (the longest, around 1min long), then this is without hesitation the fastest. The question persist, what is the best option to get the ammo needed for the snake, we have the choice of save room in guardhouse or the save room where there was the chemical bag, unless im missing an obvious other.

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Posted: 8/13/2011 1:23 PM

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arukAdo

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This could save a bit of running early in the run, im gonna have to look into it, theres 2 locked door that could get troublesome if you dont get the chemical "normal way", if it work that could potentially save _lot_ of time. Ill not be super happy to redo those rooms (we are up to room 44/178 already...) but this could be a huge time saver so ill investigate closely and we will use it if revelant. Im not sure how this would affect barry/richard behaviors, given we would not explore a whole wing of the house in the begin. (the question is basicly does barry will give the acid rounds) If you have more like that be sure to post it ! :p Edit: could you detail the trick a bit more, what side im suppose to go with ? how long its suppose to take ? is it limited to a particular version of the game ? so far im not able to pull it real time and it seem the plant does damage you quite a lot. (any scratch later will kill ya, fortunatly enought we have a aid spray but im not sure if it would downgrade the end ranking, anyway) Edit2: oh well i could do it after fucking with the plant for few hours, this is dumb trick really, im not sure why or how it work, the closest thing i can think off is wolf rise in sotn lol, it would seem you gain a few pixels in between each hits of the plant, i have no idea how quick this can be done, but its likely to save time, nice trick. Now im just annoyed by the lack of ammo for bosses but ill find a way to deal with it. Edit3: for reference, we get to the crest door with 58 doors vs 64 in the "old" route, so the trick save 6 door, it also save a pickup and avoid meeting barry (it actually take forever to speak to him), doing snake+plant with just 6 round sound very tricky, and it assume we use gun on zombie guarding the statue, maybe an extra pick up will be required in guardhouse or something like that, any idea where we should get some grenades ? (before snake boss, obviously) ideally without requiring to open extra doors...

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Posted: 8/10/2011 3:34 AM

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arukAdo

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Failing at the start menu is usually very solid ground for rejection (unless of course thats an isolate mistake, it can happen), any judge would have spot it i think, and thats to avoid saying any other rooms are improvable or any menu access, sorry to say it, and even if ill look like an asshole, but dino crisis would suffer the same fate, and AJAX specified now _several_ times that he "dislike" precision ect... Its not to beat a dead horse but oh well

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