Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
That's my bad. I had been up nearly 24 hours when I first posted and then never updated any further so I apologize for that. As stated before, not much is known about the full screen 9999 hitbox still sadly. Some things that effect it are how long you charged the imp and what type of whip you did (standing, jumping, crouching). Normally I know TASVideos doesn't factor in the language difference for improvements but it seems a lot more varied there so it's not known for sure if that could potentially do things any faster. I doubt it would be that big of a difference though so it'd probably be the best to continue using the US version.
You can set it up anywhere as long as you have cards. You can do so as mentioned before with the falling platforms, a frozen enemy, or by doing a Bone Float. After that you activate the Quick Draw (Mars + Griffin) and hold B for a second. If the green circles stay around Nathan and you can move around, then it's good. Next you switch to the Imp (Saturn + Black Dog) and charge it by holding B. Lastly you let go of B and whip again. This is the part that is a bit random/finnicky right now. A lot of the time it'll do 1 damage, or sometimes normal whip damage but after about 5 seconds or so is where it was starting to 9999 in my testing. If you want to make the hitbox permanent, you have to do a jump whip instead and leave the screen the same frame it were to hit everything. Then once it's activated, you turn off your cards and whip. Hold B on this until the whip starts spinning and it will make the sword charge animation loop and never finish. You will have to repeat this any time you whip or else the animation will finish and you'll lose the effect. Once the glitch is activated, the strength of it is set at that point. So any equipment, all the level ups, ect that happen afterwards are completely irrelevant. It's also worth noting that if you get hit, you lose the glitch as well. This only matters for the Ghosts that can spawn on top of you. Hopefully I didn't forget anything. Feel free to let me know if you need any help!
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
KSeptuple wrote:
bonecrusher1022 wrote:
so uh I'm about to head to bed but figured I'd share some things here from what was going on yesterday/today. There was a new glitch discovered by halgorithm that makes things a lot faster. There's way too much to explain now but tl;dr: the weapon/familar you can charge up are broken in combination. We don't really know why it occurs still which was what I was originally going to test. Both Simply and I had the idea to do rough draft any% magician TAS with this to see what sort of time was possible with it. They finished theirs cause I started messing around but I managed to find another application to break the game even further.
Nice job! I managed to do this myself, but failed to get a 9999 damage. This is what I did:
Use charge whip after floated in the air using skeleton form. It seems also work with breakable platforms and frozen enemies.
After fallen onto the ground, switch to the familar and charge.
Did I miss anything? The damage seems to be so random.
Sadly I cannot use discord :(
Yeah it was with a breakable platform it was initially found with I believe. And frozen enemies is how people perform it for any% runs in real time.
Sadly we never figured out exactly how the damage is determined. That's the major roadblock at the moment because it acts differently on the Japanese version compared to US as well. I had no luck trying to reverse engineer anything. I'd love to give making some full runs a try since this would likely save a bunch of time in any sort of category. I also don't know how to do the first zip quickly like the current submission does so I wouldn't want to submit something without that, or knowing how the glitch works at all. Though I'd gladly help someone else out if they were interested. Just let me know :)
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
so uh I'm about to head to bed but figured I'd share some things here from what was going on yesterday/today. There was a new glitch discovered by halgorithm that makes things a lot faster. There's way too much to explain now but tl;dr: the weapon/familar you can charge up are broken in combination. We don't really know why it occurs still which was what I was originally going to test. Both Simply and I had the idea to do rough draft any% magician TAS with this to see what sort of time was possible with it. They finished theirs cause I started messing around but I managed to find another application to break the game even further.
Simply's TAS:
Link to video
and then my short clip with the new application. This part really only saves time in a theoretical longer category. I think this may still be faster on an any% run since it would cut out the extra pauses to get the skeleton (that's still faster on the first Dracula due to the long charge time):
Link to video
I'd link my TAS movie file up to that point but I think I set it up wrong in bizhawk + it was on an older version so it just desyncs immediately and doesn't load saveRAM :/ Feel free to ask any questions and I can try to answer them to the best of my ability or maybe the discoveries will continue on discord. I'm sure some people there can help as well https://discord.gg/Aw26kwA.
Thanks for reading
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I agree with this too. Vault quickly sort of became synonymous with "oh it's just there so there's a movie on the site" which implied there was hardly any quality control (which obviously isn't true) Personally though for me I've never paid attention really to any of that stuff
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Figured to bump the thread with even more videos from T3 from the past month. Won't link them all but here are the fastest ones time wise for each stage excluding the first day. I recommend checking the channel for other alternate routes, and general TAS videos on the game! A lot of time is being saved
Link to videoLink to videoLink to videoLink to videoLink to video
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I played this game a tiny bit casually and managed to get slingshot off Robo Sandy presumably to the air but i wasn't entire sure. I tried to replicate it but never managed to successfully :/ dunno if it'd be useful or not since I never came back down. Can try to mess with it in the near future if you'd like
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
WarHippy wrote:
The work looks good so far. That speed boost looks like it can be deliciously broken. I have a few questions, though.
Is there any way to conserve your momentum while turning around? I ask because bouncing back and forth underneath a low ceiling could allow for some massive speed build up.
At 2:56 instead of just standing at the gate couldn't you build up some jump momentum using the platforms on the left? There were a few other spots in the movie where I felt this could apply.
At 4:05 in the encode is there really no way to damage boost through the snail or attack it in some way?
At 6:08 is there a reason why you stop on the ledge even though you're already invincible? Edit - Nvm, those recovery frames are terrible.
At 6:20 do the purple crystals 1-hit KO you? Also nvm, from the RTA I see that it sends you back to the check point. But, at 6:20 it does seem like there's enough time to get hit once so that the golden heart doesn't get counted at the end of the level.
Thanks! I was actually looking at this again last night cause we finished the 2nd world last week and the first 2 stages in particular look a little rough now. I did get some feedback elsewhere too but I'm not too familiar with hex editing in TAS Studio. There's no real RNG so it should be easy once I learn how to do it. Regarding conserving momentum, you can only build it going 1 way. So if you hit the opposite direction, you'll just slow yourself down a bit faster than naturally decelerating.
2:56 is definitely really sub optimal and to me looks like the most notable error thus far. Just from a tiny bit of messing around and shooting that extra bubble at a later time, I managed to cut out a ton of lag frames. Also you could do a jump like at 5:20 to release the bubble right on the thing most likely to save more time.
4:05 unfortunately not :/ you have no way of killing snails and they are literally just solid walls that block you off with no option other than waiting.
6:08 I don't believe there is any sort of pause. The turning left likely was slowing down slightly so we could make that jump.
6:20 that's a really good idea that I didn't even think of. I'll try that later. The golden hearts only cost 44 or 45 frames to get (don't remember the exact number) The one in this stage was actually grabbed despite being 7 frames slower cause it looked a lot worse to completely stop and just walk under it in our opinion.
Here's the encode of the 2nd world since I never posted it
[video=]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ6SuXzwyO0&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
dekutony wrote:
Wow, thats some insane speed. I didn't know you could build speed like that in this game, how do you do that?
I actually found this on accident shortly after my friend pointed it out looking at the speed value. The frame you hit the ground while still holding the direction you are going, you gain like 400ish speed (512 is max running for comparison sake) for 1 frame and if you let go it'll slowly trail off to 0 but if you jump you can maintain this speed as long as you aren't holding any direction. You can stack this continuously over and over :D Also I found just from messing around with the speed address, you can eventually clip through walls with about 4500 speed but idk if that will be possible to get anywhere. The highest we got so far was in the 2000s near 3000 iirc?
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Link to video
posted this on discord and my social media but forgot to post it on here. Already got some suggestions for improvements but haven't looked into them yet[/video]
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I saw this vid a couple weeks ago showing the mentioned thing in the thread as well as screenshot comparisons of all the collision. Maybe it'd be useful to help mess with it
Link to video
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Dunno if they affect any thing for stadium but other moves that come to mind that are effected by this are Young Link's grounded Up Special, Pichu's Forward smash, Samus Up Special, as well i think a couple moves with Ice Climbers? Also, I noticed the Ness 10MM TAS video link redirects to the same one as the RTA run so here's that to fix when you get the chance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDq3a2FRx8
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Yes he does. Though this may not be the final published one. We have to do a lot of testing for the other route mentioned that doesn't skip the lucky star to see which is faster.
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Here is the finished TAS with commentary, forgot to post it on here after it was uploaded sorry. Doodarino is going to re-upload it to his yt channel once he's happy with the quality so there isn't a non-commentated version uploaded publicly.
Link to video
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Seeing this thread bumped, I'm surprised the very old TAS that already exists of this game was never posted
Link to video
It isn't very good and completes every single level in order as opposed to an any% run. You can go to the link in the description for the videos on nico so the annoying comments aren't there. I guess I'll use this post to list what all I remember cause this was a while ago and it's on my laptop I rarely use anymore. In regards to skips, I want to say the are usually done with Mars Guo because his ship flies slightly higher above the ground than the others and I'm not sure if that's actually a requirement or not. I remember messing a lot with the debug menu and looking into things with a friend here's the spreadsheet we made of the debug menu stuff if one doesn't exist by now with some sort of calculation we made to figure out optimal boosting. We even had a basic route idea for the game: Start out going to the junkyard and getting a high level Cooling part so you can boost more. Then do Executioner or Sunken City for a better Pod and money for a speed part. Then do the 4 last tracks. This was before there really was anything done single segment so not much was done with it, kinda happy that's how it ended up RTA too. Would absolutely love a TAS of any category of this, assuming it's possible using Bizhawk. Not sure if there are any hurdles with the expansion pak. I never managed to find any memory addresses for this cause I hardly knew what I was doing. I TASed the first part and went to mess around during waiting for the part RNG and then saved a ton of lag frames so it wasn't there anymore and gave up lol
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Malleo will be streaming the premiere of the All Cards TAS tomorrow on his twitch channel at 2pm EST (26 hours from now for timezone stuff) Check it out! www.twitch.tv/tasmalleo
Joined: 2/11/2015
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Another update: With record skip and a fix for pause lag now thanks to Isotarge , Malleo has decided to hex edit everything from the beginning since the time save is so large. Unfortunately this means it'll be a while longer before it's done but the final product will be much better.
Joined: 2/11/2015
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I made a TAS as well since I didn't see any at the time I learned it was being done RTA. Figured I'd post it here as well. Mine's way slower cause i didn't know you could skip the intro lol.
Link to video
Joined: 2/11/2015
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Finally got the full TAS uploaded! Thanks to Mugg for encoding it and Amphorce for uploading it for me. We plan on doing a post commentary at some point too.
Link to video
Joined: 2/11/2015
Posts: 41
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Looking forward to working with everyone again (even though I don't do any of the TASing myself :P). We actually already had an all cards TAS route finished up early last year but the aforementioned pause glitch demotivated Malleo and then Palace Skip was found in TTYD a couple months later. Gotta touch things up with the Ultra Boots skip seen above. Not sure how much that will effect the late game battles. We do have more knowledge now about Power Bounce caps "realistic" chances so it's not just hoping that something is possible like with the Any% TAS lol.
Joined: 2/11/2015
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Yeah I posted about it in November and the thread just sort of died off even though the solution was posted. I never bothered about it again cause we've been bugging the devs for a long time about it so we're tired of annoying them lol.
