Posts for cheetah_7071

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Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Well, I came up with a strategy for chapter 9. However, it would be so horrendously difficult to implement that I've decided to describe it here first and see if anybody else has any better ideas. First off: Seth has to be brought down to the bottom area. He's the only one who can deal with the boss with anything even resembling speed. Second: Vanessa has to deal with the northern enemies. She's the only person who can 2HKO the mercenaries (though admittedly she can't double them with anything but a slim lance). That leaves Tana to deal with the pirates and the lone myrmidon further south. This is a problem, since all three will have to be dealt with as criticals during the enemy phase. This is the main reason testing this strategy would be very difficult. EDIT: Nitrodon, I just noticed you saying I ought to press B instead of doing check map. It should be hex editable. I'll do that before starting chapter 9. Note that which order I move the three relevant units in is still in the air and will be decided as I do the chapter. So, I have pictures! First off, Tana grabs Seth and moves as far south as she can. The pirate moves up to attack her, she criticals him. Dodging isn't strictly neccesary, but she can't be afford to be hit more than once overall throughout the chapter. Vanessa moves all the way forward, and kills the soldier behind her with a javelin, levelling up and gaining strength and speed. The strength allows her to 2HKO to sniper with a javelin, and the speed allows her to double the pirate who'll appear soon with an iron axe. This is the enemy phase for Vanessa. The picture's a bit confusing, but the idea is that everything that can attack her does. The sniper, archer, and soldier all die, but the mercenary survives. Tana then moves down and drops Seth off at the filled-in circle, trading to equip his javelin. Tana will probably equip her heavy spear, since she can't kill the archers anyways and countering takes time, but if that makes the archers too accurate it might be faster to leave her with her javelin. Meanwhile, a pirate reinforcement has appeared at the empty circle. Vanessa moves to the indicated square and equips her iron lance. I don't know exactly where the lower two mercenaries will be at the time, so the exact square may change, but the main point is that she's in the range of every nearby enemy. She kills the mercenary she had attacked once before, as well as the pirate on the counter. The pirate should have moved straight south the previous two turns, so if Tana moves here and equips her javelin, she can counter him. And so Tana criticals him on the counter. Seth moves down next to the boss and OHKOs him with an iron blade critical. Some archer reinforcements have appeared, but I can ignore them this turn. Two reinforcements have appeard above Vanessa: a mercenary on the right, and a mage on the left. Vanessa can kill the mage in one round without a critical, so she criticals the mercenary with her javelin. On the fourth and final turn, Tana moves all the way left. And counter-criticals yet again. Seth moves to this square and equips a javelin. Some more reinforcements have appeared, but he should be in range of every enemy. At this point he should have 25 or so javelin uses left between the two. Hopefully that will be enough. More reinforcements have appeared near Vanessa. The one on the right is a solder, and easily killable on the counter, so she kills the mercenary on the left with an iron lance critical. So, that's the idea. I can't afford to miss even once, and there'll be plenty of times I'll have low accuracy. Tana needs three dodge-criticals during the enemy phase. It's entirely possible that this will require so much RNG abuse that it's just faster to take more turns. At any rate, if anybody has any better ideas before I start this suicidal venture, I'd appreciate it. EDIT: Apparently pirates use lances in typo-land. Also, left and right are backwards.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
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I can say with a certainty that in-game time runs continuously between selecting the stage and having your time displayed. This applies to both skippable and unskipable text.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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I did calculate accuracy with the silver lance, I just tested the different RN without checking the spreadsheet and then somehow didn't notice Tirado missing. At any rate, with Big Shield factored in, several previously inaccesible RNs become accesible, and while before I would have wasted hundred and hundreds to even get str and spd, now I was able to get str, spd, and skl only about 60 RNs in. Here's the completed chapter. I'm going to have to think hard about chapter 9, since it's a rout chapter. I'll definitely want to check Molotov's run, but I'm currently thinking of dropping Seth off near the boss, and somehow having the rest of my army (such as it is) deal with the north. If nothing else, I'll have to think carefully about who I want to bring.
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...I'm so embarrased. I didn't notice that wasting one fewer RN caused Tirado to miss, thus screwing up my alignment. Sorry for making you do all that work for me. It seems a waste to delete the wall of text I had prepared, so here it is: Here's my WIP through the beginning of the turn where I would start wasting RNs. My plan was to waste RNs, drop Eirika off outside of the range of the archer, equip the silver lancer, and position Seth in front of the boss. The first RN of the turn is F2A8. If I end my turn without wasting RNs, Tirado is the first enemy to move (though several enemies waste RNs deciding not to move). The number of RNs wasted between the turn ending and Tirado attacking should be constant, because no enemy needs to have a path drawn. 70 or so RNs after the F2A8 mentioned is the 0 RN I'd like to critical off of. So, ignoring Big Shield, I'd want Tirado to attack on 79E6, and I need to end my turn with 6587 up next. Under the theory that Big Shield is checked before critical, wasting one fewer RN and ending with 778A next should work. Indeed I have confirmed that doing this moves Tirado's first RN up by one as intended. [This is where I realized the mistake I had made]. Again, sorry for making you do this.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Posts: 200
Killing Tirado in chapter 8 is giving me headaches. Anybody know offhand when Big Shield is checked in the RN sequence? (RNG abuse is common enough in FE that there's at least a chance somebody knows). Nearest I can figure out, the same RN is used to check whether you critical and whether your opponent activates Big Shield, which seems silly and will make most general bosses a huge pain. My reasoning for this is as follows. Here's the sequence of RN's in question (Tirado has 47 accuracy and is level 1 (meaning only an RN will activate big shield, wherever its checked), Seth has 73 accuracy and 6 critical): 1. 45 2. 47 3. 7 4. 84 5. 61 6. 54 7. 0 8. 73 On my first attempt, I had Tirado attack me with the second RN, causing him to hit and fail to critical. Seth then used the next two RNs on his accuracy check, but Big Shield activated. So, I thought that maybe the game just checked Big Shield in between accuracy and critical. Thus, I wasted one less RN in my next attempt. Tirado used the first three RNs hitting me, but then Seth hit, without criticalling or activating Big shield. The only conclusion I could draw from this is that Big Shield uses the same RN as criticals, but I'm hoping somebody else can come up with something that makes more sense.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
I implemented your suggestion in chapter 6, but the RNG in chapter 7 didn't want to cooperate, and it turns out that I was abusing it optimally. Your other suggestion did save time with the ten RNs Eirika had to burn, though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Well, I finally started this up again. Here's chapter 6: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1201037247/FE8Speedv4.vbm I'm fairly certain this is optimal. The initial move by Eirika is because otherwise an enemy will move into her viewing ranger, forcing to screen to scroll to bring that into view. I'm rather happy that I found a strategy that caused Vanessa to never be even at risk of dying, thought at the cost of 5 (?) uses of a javelin.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Sorry about my lack of updates, but I've just gotten Odin Sphere so I've been distracted. I fully intend to work on it tomorrow, though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Posts: 200
Actually, come to think of it, it may be due to me moving Eirika to the side to avoid an eventual cavalier coming at her. But at any rate, the enemies attacked from different positions, and different numbers of RNs were wasted in between enemy movement than before. I'll try leaving my initial setup as it was when doing my testing (that is, not touching the unit selection screen) and see if that was the cause of the AI difference. EDIT: I guess moving Eirika was the cause of the AI difference. Strange. I'll search for a position to move her to that won't affect anything. EDIT2: Turns out just bringing Eirika by herself caused troubles too, as now some of the cavaliers go after Vanessa...this is aggravating, but the fastest way to deal with this issue is to luck manipulate, rather than restore things to how they were in my test session.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Bah, it turns out the AI behaves differently if you use the code to turn fog of war off. Looks like I'll have to do all my planning with it on now, as the code doesn't seem to work in the middle of the chapter to view enemy positions midway through.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
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I've done some testing on chapter 6, and would like some input on a question I have before I actually do the chapter. Basically, I have the choice to either rush the boss with Seth, or with Vanessa. If I use Vanessa, I'll get four levelups, but in the end it's faster to not critical the boss on turn four, due to extreme amounts of RNG abuse required. All in all, I'd say Seth is faster by ~300-400 frames, not counting the levelups he won't be getting. I'm personally of the opinion that this time will be made up later because of Vanessa's levelling up earlier, but I'd like to see if other people disagree.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
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Here's hoping it's the last one. 1113 frames ahead of my first version, or ~18.5 seconds.
At least by the time you finally finish this chapter you can say you made sure it was as perfect as you could get it [=. I'm enjoying the WIPs, though I've only played the game once - though it was for like sixteen hours. I kept retrying the levels because I didn't want anyone to die
I just know that when this run eventually gets obseleted, the new run will be faster on every chapter, and will be able to sum it up smugly as "better luck manipulation".
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Nitrodon wrote:
Also, I still mentioned trading Orson's weapons to Ephraim at the end of turn 6 before dropping him, which will probably save a pitiful 10 frames or so from your current version (the time it took to change Orson's equipped weapon).
Sorry, didn't notice that. Given that Ephraim's group will have to do some movement in chapter 8 anyways (as enemies will carge at them whether I like it or not), I'll have plenty of opportunity to trade Orson's weapons away from Ephraim, but I don't know if I'll take that opportunity. On the one hand, if I will be trading during chapter 8, it doesn't matter when Orson gives away his silver sword, as it'll take the same time to give it to Ephraim or Forde. So I just need to decide if I need the sixth javelin. Buying another from the shop is I believe out of the question, as it will be sent to storage. I think I also get a short spear some time during Eirika's route, though that may be a drop from an enemy I won't be killing, and I know I get a javelin from Tana in chapter 9. So 7-8 ranged weapons, over 10 chapters...I think I should be fine, given that some of those chapters are 1-2 turn victories. So I guess that means I ought to trade the silver sword to Forde, making me redo from midway through turn 2, same as last time. And here I was, hoping I'd be able to keep up through the beginning of turn 3. Oh well. At least I'm starting to get really good at redoing this chapter.
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Turns out that I have to choose between criticalling the archer and the cavalier, as manipulating both pushes me beyond my RN for the 54% accuracy critical. Criticalling the archer will save me 20 or 30 frames over the cavelier, though, so I'll gor for that one. (If Orson had even one more strength, he could OHKO the cavelier with a silver sword...). Anyways, here's the new version. And before anyone asks, criticalling the boss takes more time in manipulation than it saves. EDIT: I didn't see Nitrodon's post, and I'm not sure I understand it. Which enemies are you referring to? Also keep in mind that once I'm in the trading screen it takes like 3 frames per trade, so an alternative has to be really fast to beat that.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Dang both of you. Also, I do equip the silver sword, as it allows Orson to kill the fighter at the mouth of the corridor without manipulating an extremely unlikely critical early. But I guess I'll go redo the chapter again, though at least this time I can keep the first two turns.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Here's through 5x again. I won't redo it again unless a major improvement is found, or an improvement after the 54% accuracy critical.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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...that would save time. I'm torn between thanking you and get annoyed at you for making me redo it, but at any rate, I will redo it. Not until at least tomorrow though, as I have a math final to study for today.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
I'd say just go through the first six worlds. As long as credits roll, it can count as completing the game, and in any%, you want the fastest completion of the game.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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The point of getting skill isn't in making luck abuse easier against normal enemies. It's to ensure at least a 1% crit rate against bosses. Buying killer weapons will be a huge waste of time, so I'd rather not. Vanessa is the only unit I currently intend to promote (because Wyvern Knights can pierce), but I may end up promoting Gerik, for the increased range of a Ranger. I don't intend to sell anything. I don't intend to buy anything past the javelins I've already bought, so I don't need money.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
I'm trying for str, skl, and spd every levelup, but if crazy things like 5 straight dodges or 1% criticals or whatnot have to be manipulated, I'll just go for str and spd. I'm also planning to at least look into a triangle attack in order to OHKO Formotiis, but in general, Vanessa will have enough skill to critical things on her own (or, in the worst case scenario, I give her a killer lance). I am a bit worried about getting an Elysian Whip, though, because I'll be finishing the chapter with Cormag before he even appears. I'll just have to see if I can get the one in chapter 8 without too much fuss. I'm almost certain it'll save time in the end, unless it's one of those chests in the upper right, in which case I'm not so sure. EDIT: It is...this is a very good reason to consider Ephraim's route again, which allows me to recruit Cormag. I'll of course be able to promote Vanessa with the Earth Seal in chapter 15, but I may lose a few turns due to not being able to smash through bosses, and having to attack again/bring Seth along. EDIT2: Just took another look at Eirika's route, and there's no real need to have Vanessa promoted before chapter 15. My confidence in my choice is once again well-founded.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 200
Here's my redo of chapter 4 and 5. I also realized that without both of those levelups in chapter 3, Vanessa isn't one-round KOing the enemies in chapter 4, so I'm definitely keeping it.
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Thanks for the suggestions--I'll get on them right when I have a chance. I'll also make sure to watch Molotov's chapter 3 to see what his strategy was. EDIT: Wow, never even thought of going up and around with just Seth. I'll make a point to always watch Molotov's run before planning my own strategy from now on. EDIT2: I've counted it up, and my strategy only has two more attacks (the primary source of wased time, considering that Molotov's strategy takes a more roundabout path) than his, which I believe to be worth it for two levelups. Hence, I'm leaving chapter 3 how it is unless someone can convince me that his strategy really is better. I think the time I lost simly came from the fact that I got more levelups, which take several seconds each. Also, allowing Artur to be hit by one of the skeletons makes him higher priority to attack than Seth with a silver lance. I'll look to abuse two levelups and a failed dodge, now.
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Well, normally I wouldn't post a WIP with just one new chapter (and a short one at that), but I'm busy studying for finals and won't be able to get to chapter 5x for a while. Thus, here's Chapter 5.
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