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Wow, seriously thank you for that serious dose of nostalgia. That game rocked my childhood. Those bosses gave me nightmares.
Time to replay it. And a TAS would definitely be interesting. Although the fun is in the suspense.
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Downloaded Dolphin 4.0 today.
Mega Man 9 works fine with dual core enabled, but disabling it (to TAS) force closes dolphin as soon as it starts with no error message.
Anybody else experience an issue like this?
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Changing to rush coil for the first ladder is faster since you can also use rush for the second screen as well as in the spike room. The time saved in those three parts makes up for the time it takes to switch weapons (70 frames).
As for the boss pattern, killing enemies changes the RNG and is the best way to manipulate the pattern without waiting. In this level, there are plenty of enemies to kill, especially since the birds drop stones which also change the RNG when shot (only the big piece. The little fragments can be shot but don't change the RNG).
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WST wrote:
No, it’s you who has to understand that submitting your first TAS is not a good idea. Seriously, I would not like if someone’s first run was published from the first attempt, while I have been TASing for years and still didn’t make any submission considering my experience still far from perfect.
It’s gonna be my first «No» vote. :)
Hey, I submitted my first ever TAS and it was published!
Granted, I spent 4 months making it and I did plenty of research about the game and TASvideos in the meantime.
Doesn't seem like much of either was performed here. No vote, but don't stop trying.
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I've watched this for an obscenely longer time than I should have.
Suggested screenshot:
Frame #6,243,863
That's really one of the only variable parts in the run. Adds a little excitement to wonder whether or not he'll kill the hammer bro in the current iteration.
Frame #24,523,043,322,450,949,203 was a pretty good one too, though.
Also, if accepted, how could this be improved? Infinity +1? Infinity and beyond?
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The current TAS record for this level is 39"27 and can be seen in ccstrakm's movie here [1126] SNES Super Mario Kart by cstrakm in 21:27.02.
Granted, it's in the championship mode and uses mushroom boosts, but regardless, there's not enough content here to warrant publication.
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Alright, I'm really, really trying to understand this .dtm editing but I can't find any information on the web that starts at square one. It jumps straight into the unsigned hexidecimals and boolean strings! I don't know anything about all this terminology.
I downloaded HxD and opened the .dtm, but I have no clue what I'm supposed to be looking at. I'm sure there's alot involved so can anyone tell me where I can start to learn this stuff? It would really help with my MM9 TAS.
For a specific question, I'm looking for my rerecord count. I'm told it's a 32 bit unsigned integer at offset 0x02D. Using my best reasoning skills, I'm guessing that means it's here:
So does that mean my rerecord count is 8914, or do I have to convert "00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 89 14 00" into decimal format, or am I looking in the completely wrong place?
Thanks for any help.
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Derakon wrote:
I think it's a question of, do you make a run with the unmodified game where you have to either pursue in-game time or realtime, but can't do both? Or do you make a run with the code where you can do both together? Obviously the latter run would have trouble being submitted here but the movie will be much more entertaining. An unmodified realtime run would probably be unable to beat the unassisted records for most of the levels because weapon-switching becomes prohibitively expensive. And an unmodified in-game-time run would be pretty dang tedious due to all the pausing to switch.
So basically, there is no right answer. Personally I'm fine with using the code.
Derakon pretty much summed up my dilemma here, but AngerFist brings up some important points, too.
As it stands, using the code and aiming for real time does provide some unique opportunities that I couldn't take advantage of before. After consideration, I agree with AngerFist: that is a negative characteristic of this code. Because of this, a real-time TAS could never be compared to an unassisted speed run, and it creates a practically ambiguous category of "fastest time using code".
However, when aiming for in-game time, the code doesn't provide any advantages to the run at all, and the ONLY purpose of the code would be to basically provide a smoother viewing experience. I know the precedent provided by all the previous Mega Man's tailors to real time without codes, but the difference here is the presence of an actual in-game timer in MM9.
The main difference between the two runs with the code is simply energy management. I had to forgo a few concrete zips in order to conserve weapon energy for the boss. Weapon refills don't add to the in-game timer, so an in-game time run would simply zip a few more times and refill as often as necessary (even M-tanks).
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At long last, with a huge thanks to delroth and darkeye, we now have a working weapon switching code for Mega Man 9. The code can be found here, and it works on both the Dolphin emulator as well as the actual Wii console.
Details on how to enable the code in Dolphin can be found here:
http://superstargames.ucoz.com/forum/18-55-1
Using this code I've restarted my run, but I am still minimizing real time. So far, I have saved 478 frames because of new quick switching tricks that can now be utilized.
Here's the new WIP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nOYDpWK2Zs
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There's always going to be improvements, the challenge lies within the time limit to make the video.
Just watch H20's (3rd place) run as he makes the jump from the 2nd red coin to the 3rd red coin at 2:10. Now watch luigi2012 (2nd place) perform his jump at 2:46. Even just tightening up that jump could have saved the .4 seconds needed to take 1st.
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How can it be completely wrong? My google search revealed the following:
"The answer centers on the idea of matter conservation. If a certain amount of water flows into the hose from the spigot, that water must either flow out of the hose at the other end, or accumulate inside the hose itself. Since a garden hose is made of stiff plastic (generally), it won't expand to let more water accumulate, so the water must eventually flow out of the end of the hose. When you put your finger over the tip of the hose, you decrease the amount of space the water has to flow through. Since the same amount of water has to flow out of the hose before and after you place you finger over the end, the water must shoot out faster (to keep the amount of water flowing out a constant). And, thus, since the water shoots out faster, it travels farther."
http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae185.cfm
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zwataketa wrote:
Why dont you guys make a protoman tas now that bass and rock are complete?
Yea, sorry man. When I get free time to TAS, I'd rather devote it towards progressing in Mega Man 9.
I'm nearly positive Proto-Man will run the same route as the other two, so the optimal path has already been laid out. Unlike Mega Man, he wont have to stop by the shop between Commando Man and Blade Man, since he automatically starts with Rush Jet and thus has a way past the obstacles.
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Oh, don't worry. I have no intention of finishing a sup-optimal TAS. I'm currently working through all the possible routes simultaneously to see which will end up being the best. The one I posted above is showing the most promise so far.
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
I completed the next stage (Galaxy Man), but at this point I'm a little stuck. Continuing on with the weakness order brings up Jewel Man, but I lose a lot of time on the rock mini-boss without Hornet Man's weapon to lure him out. After that comes plug man and without the rush jet, I'll be hindered by the disappearing blocks.
I didn't realize until now that unlike Mega Man 10, I have to complete 5 stages before I'm awarded the rush jet (MM10 only required 4). The stages that benefit the most from the jet are Plug Man, Tornado Man, and possibly Splash Woman.
So at this point, I'm going to either need to continue with the weakness order and suffer the slowdowns, buster-fight Hornet Man out of order to bring his weapon into play, or scrap the route entirely for the Tornado Man start. I've already finished the rest of Tornado Man's stage but, unfortunately, due to the achievement pop-ups, I get to the boss with horrible RNG luck and lose a ton of time manipulating his optimal pattern. The more I play that route the more it seems unfavorable for real-time.
But I should work it all out eventually. For now here's Galaxy Man.
Link to video
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Alright, time for some notes on this, in case anyone is interested in hearing about progress.
I'm still comparing the possible starting routes to find the most efficient one. At the moment I'm deciding between two routes:
Tornado -> Splash -> Weakness order
This route is used in the current in-game time unassisted record of 19:18 by MegaDestructor9. However, since I'm going for real-time, I'm not sure yet if this will still be the best route.
I did a test comparing my TAS to the record, and I was able to save several seconds in Tornado Man's stage, but all that extra time was lost when I got here:
TAS is on the left, agwawaf's run is on the right.
I have to jump on that red/blue platform that moves along that track. In agwawaf's run, he arrives at the perfect time to jump on it and continue. In the TAS, I arrived too early, and have to wait for it to come back to me. This ends up putting the clear time for this level at the exact same as the current unassisted record by agwawaf. It can't be manipulated, as the position is determined at the start of the level.
Because of this, I'm also testing an alternate route:
Concrete -> weakness order
This is the route used in the current real-time unassisted record of 32:01 by TheTrueSigma aka privateye. This run looks promising at the moment, because I will be able to keep the time saved in Tornado Man. I've already completed the first stage of this route, and you can view it here:
Link to video
Finally, earlier in this thread, I was torn between running this TAS for real-time vs in-game time. There's a trick unique to this game called the concrete shot zip, that allows for small amounts of frames to gained with every zip. But it's only useful when minimizing the in-game clock, as it takes too many real-time frames to perform. Well, I think I found the solution.
The full game will be ran for real-time, as I've mentioned. But in-game time can be a separate TAS that aims to complete all of the time trials. Simply starting from the top of the list with Magma Man, and working all the way down the list to finish Wily 4 (and possibly the special stage DLC).
There are a few key benefits to this run. First, I start with all the weapons, so I'll be able to maximize zips in every stage. Second, the in-game clock is actually displayed during time trials, so the frequent pausing will at least have a clear rationalization for the viewer.
A TAS that complete the full list of time trials aiming for in-game time has a specific goal that will set it apart from the full game real time run. In addition, it outlines a clear objective that can be improved upon, as an improvement to any single stage will improve the overall time. This makes me think it might have a shot at getting accepted alongside the full game.
I've complete the first stage of this run as well. It starts with Magma Man, and although I know of some improvements that can be made (better energy manipulation and eliminate corner clipping), it and can be viewed here:
Link to video
I will continue to work on both runs simultaneously.
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I'd like to see a Proto Man run, so all the characters can be represented, but I wont be running through with him. I'll gladly give feedback and advice if anyone wants to give it a shot though.
His all clear time will be faster than Mega Man's but slower than Bass.
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Good work so far, but I keep getting tripped up by this error:
Happens a lot whenever I try to playback a movie. The error pops on the first or second frame, and the movie ends. Of course, I'm closing/opening Dolphin first, and I have the correct TAS settings (dual core off, idle skipping off). This error never appeared when I was TASing Mega Man 10, so I'm not sure when it was included.
I noticed I can toggle "Use EurGB60 Mode (Pal60)" in the Wii Misc Settings or change the backend to OpenGL, and it will sometimes play. But naturally it ends up desyncing.
Emulation is better, and I have less problems than I did while TASing MM10, but there's still a few frustrations I'm not sure how to fix. Ideally, I'd like to use save states to find the optimal path through a level, then export the save after beating the level, and have the inputs playback that optimal path. But instead, I'm finding it still desyncs alot unless I manually write down the inputs after finding them, then running through the level without rerecording.
Please, per the Site Rules:
"Language
The main language on this board is English.
Posting in other languages is allowed, but all discussions should be at least translated to English. Users who are unable to post in English should confine their posts to the non-English sections of the forum."rog wrote:
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Thanks!
Little problem, though. Whenever I try to playback a recording, it ends the movie at the first frame and gives the error:
"Fatal Desync. Aborting Playback. (Error in PlayWiimote: 4 !=23, byte 315.)"
Any ides how to fix it? Google and dolphin forums revealed nothing. Never saw this on the old builds.
Impressive.
WHY WAS I NOT TOLD?!
That's really one of the only variable parts in the run. Adds a little excitement to wonder whether or not he'll kill the hammer bro in the current iteration.
Frame #24,523,043,322,450,949,203 was a pretty good one too, though.
Also, if accepted, how could this be improved? Infinity +1? Infinity and beyond?
So does that mean my rerecord count is 8914, or do I have to convert "00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 89 14 00" into decimal format, or am I looking in the completely wrong place?
Thanks for any help.
TAS is on the left, agwawaf's run is on the right.
I have to jump on that red/blue platform that moves along that track. In agwawaf's run, he arrives at the perfect time to jump on it and continue. In the TAS, I arrived too early, and have to wait for it to come back to me. This ends up putting the clear time for this level at the exact same as the current unassisted record by agwawaf. It can't be manipulated, as the position is determined at the start of the level.
Because of this, I'm also testing an alternate route:
Concrete -> weakness order
This is the route used in the current real-time unassisted record of 32:01 by TheTrueSigma aka privateye. This run looks promising at the moment, because I will be able to keep the time saved in Tornado Man. I've already completed the first stage of this route, and you can view it here:
Link to video
Finally, earlier in this thread, I was torn between running this TAS for real-time vs in-game time. There's a trick unique to this game called the concrete shot zip, that allows for small amounts of frames to gained with every zip. But it's only useful when minimizing the in-game clock, as it takes too many real-time frames to perform. Well, I think I found the solution.
The full game will be ran for real-time, as I've mentioned. But in-game time can be a separate TAS that aims to complete all of the time trials. Simply starting from the top of the list with Magma Man, and working all the way down the list to finish Wily 4 (and possibly the special stage DLC).
There are a few key benefits to this run. First, I start with all the weapons, so I'll be able to maximize zips in every stage. Second, the in-game clock is actually displayed during time trials, so the frequent pausing will at least have a clear rationalization for the viewer.
A TAS that complete the full list of time trials aiming for in-game time has a specific goal that will set it apart from the full game real time run. In addition, it outlines a clear objective that can be improved upon, as an improvement to any single stage will improve the overall time. This makes me think it might have a shot at getting accepted alongside the full game.
I've complete the first stage of this run as well. It starts with Magma Man, and although I know of some improvements that can be made (better energy manipulation and eliminate corner clipping), it and can be viewed here:
Link to video
I will continue to work on both runs simultaneously.
Happens a lot whenever I try to playback a movie. The error pops on the first or second frame, and the movie ends. Of course, I'm closing/opening Dolphin first, and I have the correct TAS settings (dual core off, idle skipping off). This error never appeared when I was TASing Mega Man 10, so I'm not sure when it was included.
I noticed I can toggle "Use EurGB60 Mode (Pal60)" in the Wii Misc Settings or change the backend to OpenGL, and it will sometimes play. But naturally it ends up desyncing.
Emulation is better, and I have less problems than I did while TASing MM10, but there's still a few frustrations I'm not sure how to fix. Ideally, I'd like to use save states to find the optimal path through a level, then export the save after beating the level, and have the inputs playback that optimal path. But instead, I'm finding it still desyncs alot unless I manually write down the inputs after finding them, then running through the level without rerecording.