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I can't get this movie to replay without crashing at the very beginning of gameplay.
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Native/Infinite/Full infinite waits - locks on frame 163.
Finite/Full waits - the game somewhat runs but with black screen and no audio.
No waits - the game runs with video, but the movie desyncs right away.
Using version 1.50436 29.08.2018
121a2db59859b24ad76593f74abbcdc14aadd953 Bastion.bin.x86_64
Link to video
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What does the dump status report say if you click the green checkmark?
For me it says this
Moon - Remix RPG Adventure (Japan)
Disc was identified (99.99% confidently) as known good with disc id hash CRC32:BF5383C5
Nonetheless it could be an unrecognized romhack or patched version.
According to redump.org, the ideal hash for entire disc is: CRC32:1DF0DBFF
The file you loaded hasn't been hashed entirely (it would take too long)
Compare it with the full hash calculated by the PSX menu's Hash Discs tool
But when I use the hash disks tool it shows the same hash as redump has:
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's the same file as the one in the submission.
CRC32: 925C2C15
MD5: 0E5E16C2754C6D9C28BEDDCE5EE3F52C
SHA-1: 6A89A7B2B24A2FEFA8052F1794C499778434A7AA
And it doesn't sync for me with the B05DEF971D8EC59F346F2D9AC21FB742E3EB6917 bios.
poco_cpp, what's the hashsum of your game files?
I have
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I compared what I could with [3521] Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles "Knuckles, 100%" by joojamoi & Evil_3D in 44:27.73 and the routing is very different in the same levels. Some segments in this submission look longer (Sandopolis 2), but others look shorter (the later ones). Overall it looks well done.
Obsoleting Sonic 3 & Knuckles is not an option because it's a more complete version of the game, and rejecting seems unfair to the qualities of this run. It could theoretically be send to Wiki: Playground, but I'm not convinced that it can't become a new published branch.
Does anyone have an opinion on this?
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KusogeMan wrote:
I played the game normally and unlocking all characters and collecting some chests without saving the movie file, you either use the savefile i gave you or even a small chest could desync if tried to recreate the savefile from start, reject if you will and let this run be in the cemetery, maybe someday rules change and this run can get unrejected
Overall I don't think it'd be a good idea to allow random save files from the internet as movie anchors for publications. In cases when creating a verification movie is too hard (like having to play the game for many hours), I can see us allowing some kind of an external code that directly unlocks the needed things (in-game codes are already allowed for this). Even if sync depends on doing certain things in the emulator, to unlock things or to change the game.
The fact that the author has already played through the game to unlock everything, just didn't record it into a movie, means there's no annoying and complicated setup that we want to work around here, and the workaround itself is not there either. We just need to use the save file, that may not even be replicatable.
I'm for providing more options that are less legitimate as long as there's still some legitimacy to them, and there's a reason to use them that makes sense. I don't see a reason to not have a verification movie (or any other reproducible file or setup) for this submission.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I have a theory that the movie should sync on your device if the run is resynced on a core that replicates your ppu decay. But if we all agree that it should sync in theory after an accuracy tweak, then it's possible to do on console in principle. In which case we should just accept it without resyncing.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd50wwM0mBQ
V2 test. Same basic results as V1. Seems to be a couple orders of magnitude faster than what NESHawk has now (but shouldn't really matter since in this case the reads seem to be happening during rendering, so even quicker decay should still be ok.)
Rendering shouldn't matter at all in this case. The PPU open bus we're talking about here is open bus for the PPU's CPU interface and is only affected by register access - that is, values driven onto this specific bus when the CPU writes or when bits are driven to respond to a CPU read. This is separate from the PPU bus used for CHR and nametables, which is what is used for rendering.
Indeed, consider lidnariq's test ROM above that is measuring this decay. It has rendering enabled at all times and would not function properly if rendering affected it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Since you already submitted the new run, just cancel this one.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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lexikiq wrote:
It is indeed over a second faster to end with the memory game, see here.
Would you like to be co-authored?
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What are the needed unlockables then? There's no explanation why this run needs to start from a save file as opposed to fresh bootup.
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chatterbox wrote:
So I made a new run with a revised route for 1-1 for now. Although the record is slower as a result, but I think this is a more truthful record as more accurate patch became available. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638190750274557357
Thanks! Indeed it syncs, will replace the submission once RHDN accepts my patch update.
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KusogeMan wrote:
I played the game normally and unlocking all characters and collecting some chests without saving the movie file
How long did it take?
KusogeMan wrote:
you either use the savefile i gave you or even a small chest could desync if tried to recreate the savefile from start, reject if you will and let this run be in the cemetery, maybe someday rules change and this run can get unrejected
Is there at least some gecko code(s) to replicate the same thing as those save files do?
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The question still stands. How did you get those save files? If there's no way to replicate them (not necessarily through a movie) then this run can't be verified.
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i will provide my savefile to sync the movie when a judge requests so.
What's wrong with providing it right away? And more importantly, how you got that save file.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The main difference is Mouser throwing a lot of bombs, Clawgrip throwing a lot of rocks, faster death and bonus chance win, and a softlock fix.
Superfast SMB3 warpless is still broken, entering any ship will softlock in infinite scrolling.
Superfast SMB2J slowly corrupts graphics but otherwise should work.
Zelda1fast is fully playable.
I want to send the updated file to RHDN, but then the only way to sync this submission would be to grab it from his site again, and we can't know how long it remains available. chatterbox, can you check why the new file desyncs and say how hard it would be to resync on it?
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So far it's getting pretty decent feedback! Maybe it doesn't look all that enjoyable directly, but the technical marvel seems to really amuse people.
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OtakuTAS wrote:
Difficulty is included in title as the difficulty alters the core gameplay of the minigames. (i.e. smaller grids on grid based games)
I played every minigame on every setting, and apart from falling balls that only change speed from what I noticed, indeed every other minigame (barring the second one) has a different layout for each difficulty setting.
Since this mode doesn't have an ending, we would accept a movie that completes all minigames on all difficulty levels over a movie that goes through each of them once, instead of having a separate branch for every difficulty. This one is good for now since it completes one full loop, so to speak.
Tho I'd rename this branch to "Activity Mode, Genie Master" to match the in-game naming.
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I asked, he said "yeah I did some fixes for the warpless run (mostly bosses weren't throwing things)". I asked him to upload the new version to http://acmlm.rustedlogic.net/ips/
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Note that, to my knowledge, the 5-3 boss cannot be defeated by any method, so warpless run would be impossible. Clawglip throws rocks to the player and you have to catch them to fight the boss, but in this ROM hack, he's become a fool and doesn't do anything but move from side to side. Although you can think of other ways to fight the boss, but you can't go through the Mask Gate while holding something, and the Power Star doesn't last long enough to get you to the final room. Here's a demo movie of me playing rough up to 5-3. You can check it out for yourself: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638159481655030136
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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OceanBagel wrote:
I've taken "softlock" to mean that the game is still executing game code in some way, and although nothing is actually happening here, game code is still being executed. For example, the music continues to play out and the code within the loop is still being run normally. As far as I understand it, this can be any amount of code as long as it's the game's code that's running.
My understanding of "hardlock" is that it refers to an actual game crash, taking execution outside of the game loop. Gamemaker games have a distinctive crash screen for this situation and there are certainly ways to get that to happen in Undertale. (In fact there's even a speedrun category called "10 Unique Crashes")
When messing around with this on the Windows version of Undertale, I'm still able to interact with the game window itself so maybe that counts as being able to handle user input? It's certainly in a grey area at the very least but I think there's at least an argument to be made that it could be considered a softlock.
I think within the context of Undertale, it makes sense to consider this a softlock. Hardlocks in Undertale almost always come with a crash screen detailing a code error of some sort, and the rest of the time they close the game unexpectedly. Softlocks in Undertale almost always take the form of being stuck in place in-game, unable to move or open the menu or do anything other than close the game. It's a relatively easy line to draw here between locks that halt game execution and locks that continue game execution, and although I can certainly see that definition break down in other games, I think it works fine here.
Either way, it's a lighthearted submission anyway, so I'm not too bothered if it's actually considered a hardlock after all.
softlock (plural softlocks)
(video games) A situation where a game remains apparently playable, but further progress is impossible, typically due to a design flaw or glitch.
hardlock (plural hardlocks)
(video games) A situation where a game becomes unplayable, making further progress or action impossible, typically due to a design flaw or glitch.
crash (plural crashes)
(computing) A malfunction of computer software or hardware which causes it to shut down or become partially or totally inoperable.
I've always understood softlock as being able to move but being unable to advance in the game (you're technically stuck). And hardlock is just a freeze. Crashing is when the application closes by itself.
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I posted my thoughts about this game in the other submission, but since it was canceled, I'll paste them here for the sake of continuing the discussion.
This was my main question with this game:
Wiki: Glossary#VideoGame wrote:
A video game poses a virtual task. It requires the player to accomplish some in-game job.
so I was curious how it's resolved in the submission, and the solution is
the virtual task is quite literally the name of the video game
While I can definitely see how this game does its best to suggest a task to the player, the secondary sentence of the definition (meant to elaborate on the first one) says "It requires the player to accomplish some in-game job" and I can't agree that there are any kinds of requirements in this game whatsoever.
It gives you some tools to use, and then basically leaves you on your own. You can invent indefinite number of your own goals and definitions, and the game won't object, its tools will just retain their limits.
The game does nothing to tell you what is considered actually coloring a dinosaur, and there's no explanation of what isn't. So players are on their own here, and we can already see how we can define it in several relatively natural ways. Now if we consider that TASing it about pushing games to their limits, beyond natural limitations, it would be strange to stop on what feels obvious to us after having read the title of the game. Why limit ourselves (and our creativity) with how real world is organized? We don't emulate the real world and we can't TAS it, not even as a part of a videogame. So why do we need to rely on English language when determining in-game actions?
This goes further.
We rely on English language literally when we interpret the game title as the only objective of the game. Then we vaguely rely on it and vaguely reinvent it when determining what should be considered coloring. And then we refuse to rely on it when deciding that coloring a dinosaur is objectively the requirement of this game. And we outright contradict English language if we say that whatever community is going to agree on, is objectively the goal of the game.
The only objective reality with video games is in-game reality. All the rest is human's subjective convention.
Okay so subjective human convention is not something bad in its nature. We still need to achieve community agreement on major subjects like policies, or on subjectivity-based movie goals when deciding whether a playaround is entertaining. We encourage subjective feedback on movies in general, and we work with that data as an objective fact. But we should not use community agreement as a substitution for an objective fact. We should not operate in a paradigm like "if enough people consider this color blue, then it's objectively blue".
Even if we wanted, we do not have reliable sample size here. And we don't even have a consensus yet, and I'm not looking forward to a consensus picking from several logically equivalent options.
White is definitely a color, and the game allows you to color everything white. But do we agree that the goal if the game is us coloring everything white? Of course not. The goal of the game is, maybe, us coloring everything in some way.
But on the other hand, can we agree that us changing absolutely nothing is the goal of the game? I don't think so. The game's documentation goes out of its way to show us example pictures where dinosaurs are colored by applying different colors to them. It even has all those different colors available! Of course the game's goal is that we use those colors! But this is when we decide that we're too creative to care about the game's expectations, and we ignore them by not changing anything in the game. Yet we care about its title's wording and use it as a command. Sounds inconsistent.
If this game ends up fitting our definition of a video game, then I don't think it will be our current definition. It will have to be changed to fit this game. And of course it's not a problem in itself, because we can't predict everything. And we only evolve if we're ready to change.
But when a definition has to be changed to the opposite of the one we agreed on as a community... then why do we even need definitions? If the goal is tweaking them in a way that everything ends up fitting, why have community discussions on where to put a limit?
Photoshop is a game. It gives you tools and the goal is that you use its title as a command. You just have to photoshop. Once you've photoshopped, you've completed the game. Can we have a community consensus on this one please? Wait we first need a community agreement on what is considered actually photoshopping...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Disclaimer: I didn't intend this post to be so critical and long, but this submission happened to unpack a lot of things that we haven't discussed before. It's not aimed at anyone, it just ponders a few new theses.
This was my main question with this game:
Wiki: Glossary#VideoGame wrote:
A video game poses a virtual task. It requires the player to accomplish some in-game job.
so I was curious how it's resolved in the submission, and the solution is
the virtual task is quite literally the name of the video game
While I can definitely see how this game does its best to suggest a task to the player, the secondary sentence of the definition (meant to elaborate on the first one) says "It requires the player to accomplish some in-game job" and I can't agree that there are any kinds of requirements in this game whatsoever.
It gives you some tools to use, and then basically leaves you on your own. You can invent indefinite number of your own goals and definitions, and the game won't object, its tools will just retain their limits.
The game does nothing to tell you what is considered actually coloring a dinosaur, and there's no explanation of what isn't. So players are on their own here, and we can already see how we can define it in several relatively natural ways. Now if we consider that TASing it about pushing games to their limits, beyond natural limitations, it would be strange to stop on what feels obvious to us after having read the title of the game. Why limit ourselves (and our creativity) with how real world is organized? We don't emulate the real world and we can't TAS it, not even as a part of a videogame. So why do we need to rely on English language when determining in-game actions?
This goes further.
We rely on English language literally when we interpret the game title as the only objective of the game. Then we vaguely rely on it and vaguely reinvent it when determining what should be considered coloring. And then we refuse to rely on it when deciding that coloring a dinosaur is objectively the requirement of this game. And we outright contradict English language if we say that whatever community is going to agree on, is objectively the goal of the game.
The only objective reality with video games is in-game reality. All the rest is human's subjective convention.
Okay so subjective human convention is not something bad in its nature. We still need to achieve community agreement on major subjects like policies, or on subjectivity-based movie goals when deciding whether a playaround is entertaining. We encourage subjective feedback on movies in general, and we work with that data as an objective fact. But we should not use community agreement as a substitution for an objective fact. We should not operate in a paradigm like "if enough people consider this color blue, then it's objectively blue".
Even if we wanted, we do not have reliable sample size here. And we don't even have a consensus yet, and I'm not looking forward to a consensus picking from several logically equivalent options.
White is definitely a color, and the game allows you to color everything white. But do we agree that the goal if the game is us coloring everything white? Of course not. The goal of the game is, maybe, us coloring everything in some way.
But on the other hand, can we agree that us changing absolutely nothing is the goal of the game? I don't think so. The game's documentation goes out of its way to show us example pictures where dinosaurs are colored by applying different colors to them. It even has all those different colors available! Of course the game's goal is that we use those colors! But this is when we decide that we're too creative to care about the game's expectations, and we ignore them by not changing anything in the game. Yet we care about its title's wording and use it as a command. Sounds inconsistent.
If somehow we reach an agreement on what is objectively the required goal of this game, I have another problem. For games without an ending we have this set of acceptable end points:
Wiki: MovieRules#MovieMustBeComplete wrote:
If there's no clear ending, end after completing the first full game loop. However you may play further and end after any of the following:
All unique content (enemies, level layouts, game mechanics, etc.) is exhausted and completed.
The loop with the hardest in-game difficulty (enemy speed, AI, etc.) is completed.
In games with a score counter, you may end when you reach the maximum score the game allows.
This run doesn't aim for maximum score, it doesn't complete the hardest difficulty loop, it doesn't exhaust all unique content, and I'm afraid it doesn't even complete the first full game loop. It completes essentially a single optional level and stops there. I can't agree that every dinosaur is a full game loop. And neither of them is the first one, they are all optional. So at the very least all unique content should be exhausted and completed, which is what #8258: Samsara's NES Color a Dinosaur in 02:07.46 does, and like MarioAtWork, that other submission is the one I'd consider a fastest completion of this game, if it has any.
If this game ends up fitting our definition of a video game, then I don't think it will be our current definition. It will have to be changed to fit this game. And of course it's not a problem in itself, because we can't predict everything. And we only evolve if we're ready to change.
But when a definition has to be changed to the opposite of the one we agreed on as a community... then why do we even need definitions? If the goal is tweaking them in a way that everything ends up fitting, why have community discussions on where to put a limit?
Photoshop is a game. It gives you tools and the goal is that you use its title as a command. You just have to photoshop. Once you've photoshopped, you've completed the game. Can we have a community consensus on this one please? Wait we first need a community agreement on what is considered actually photoshopping...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
For me it says this