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Dacicus wrote:
Could #7086: Dacicus's DOS Sorry Ass in 05:07.73 be published under the latest version of the rules?
Yes.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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EZGames69 wrote:
But that not only requires the authors of the old tas to make a submission for level 20 (since the submission I linked isn’t even the current fastest level 20 from my understanding), but it would essentially be the equivalent of taking the last inputs of the movie file after the last resync and using that as it’s own separate publication. I don’t know if the RNG would be the same after said reset compared to first power on, but if it is then I’m not sure what the point would be other than having two separate publications with one just being essentially an identical segment from the all levels pub. It would be redundant in my opinion.
We have a somewhat recent example (tho in theory it could have gone to Playground if the author was interested).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Wiki: MovieRules#MovieMustBeComplete wrote:
Your submission must play the game from the beginning, and must finish the game, or reach the most suitable endpoint the game allows. Level selects, single-level movies, or otherwise incomplete movies are not allowed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's not a game end glitch but a level completion glitch, it's used in the "all levels" branch in most levels. The judgment for #6123: poco_cpp's NES Dr. Mario "all levels" in 06:44.03 explicitly says:
The player already provided a movie file that beats level 20 HI speed with the same inputs used in the submitted movie during level 20, and I was also able to do the same with other levels. This means that the submitted movie does include the inputs of a fastest-completion run in it; in other words, by fulfilling the full-completion goal, it does also fulfil the fastest-completion goal.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So if both movies were played optimally (given current knowledge), one would absolutely not include another, right?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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dwangoAC wrote:
on the basis of it being a different category
Elaborate?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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CoolHandMike wrote:
I want to make a tutorial(s) for using MAME in BizHawk.
Thanks!!!
CoolHandMike wrote:
Note still have not been able to use the other method of zipping with the same game name successfully. Might skip this unless someone else has a video of this working which I could just drop into this section.
Just describe the steps you're doing and I'll check what's missing.
CoolHandMike wrote:
Do not use SystemBus since it may change values and cause a desync.
In such cases poke me so I add them to https://tasvideos.org/Bizhawk/MAME How does it happen in that one case?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
If someone were going for maxing out a score counter that was retained between songs, repeating a song could be considered a scoring loop; but it would not delay completion. It would speed up the run and thus completion by repeating the most efficient song in regards to points/time.
If all songs were optional, maybe you could only play the optimal ones and repeat them, but in linear games repeating some level means game end is delayed. The goal of max score is not to hit score cap at any cost, but to complete the game the quickest while also getting maximum reasonable score. Score cap is allowed too, but only if it naturally happens while playing without infinite loops.
DrD2k9 wrote:
The "Boost" mode is arguably acceptable for Standard Publication on our site as the code is used to access an even more difficult mode than is normally selectable (as opposed to making the game easier). Unfortunately, I don't feel that having both a normal play publication (even at the fastest scroll setting) along side of a "Boost" mode publication is worthwhile for the site. So here's my proposal for getting the fastest publication of this game on the site: I will create a new run using the "Boost" mode code to TAS the hardest/fastest difficulty of play. I'll also use the fastest scroll setting to minimize lag. While it technically makes the game more difficult, the "Wacky" mode will not be used; because the graphical alterations may be noxious to some viewers. As I don't want to manually resync every note in the game, nor would I want to offload that effort onto LoganTheTASer (we need to change his name on this submission, by the way), I have already written a Lua script to automatically input the note presses where needed for perfect play. Ending input early is not an option as a Start press is necessary to progress from the final score screen back to the menu to show the checkmark indicating completion on the last song. Regarding branch naming: I feel that an "any %" run of this game should be required to complete all the songs as there's no other good way to define a valid endpoint of the game. Given the need of a Start press after the last song, there's no real way to end input early. So a "full completion" run wouldn't be any different than "any %" run. Also due to the final Start press, not getting maximum score doesn't speed up the final inputs. So all three branches are effectively the same from a time-perspective; getting less than a perfect score could be considered sloppy play given that it doesn't save time from an optimization standpoint. Therefore, I feel the "Boost" mode run should be considered the baseline "any %" run of this game and should be published branchless.
Sounds like "max score" is simply the only sensible branch for this game, and the boost mode would be preferred indeed (unless it reduces your score).
Patashu wrote:
I was going to say 'IMO the scroll speed should be at a rate that is comfortably readable by rhythm game players so that they can follow along with the charts' but, well... if it saves FRAMES, rest assured I can't argue with that!!
Well, we tend to skip all skippable cutscenes, and to speedup all cutscenes that can't be skipped, so using a slower mode to make things readable in real time would be something longplays do rather than speedruns.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
I think this run would be better branched "all songs" or "full completion" instead of "maximum score." Because the game doesn't monitor score beyond one song, there's no real way to determine when to define the endpoint of "Maximum Score." If the game tracked score beyond 1 song, then maxing out the score counter itself would be that endpoint.
We used to have this clause and then it was maybe considered obvious enough to not repeat, but we can restore it:
Wiki: LegacyPages/MovieRules#MaximumPoints wrote:
If a game automatically resets the score as you progress (for example, in every level), "max score" must be reached in every such segment.
DrD2k9 wrote:
Even if this was the case, replaying the various songs is an option. This means that the fastest method to reach the theoretical maximum score would be to replay the song that yields the most points/time spent over and over again until the max score was achieved.
Wiki: MovieRules#Standard on Score Attack wrote:
Infinite scoring loops that delay completion are not allowed.
DrD2k9 wrote:
Considering that the game does checkmark each song once it's completed, we can claim that it does monitor a completion level of sorts. Thus 'full completion' or 'all songs' would be a better descriptor of the run. The run should still qualify for Standard publication.
But does this run go out of its way to maximize per-song score too, or does it just aim for shortest time in each?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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An important question is also how different it feels compared to existing branches: https://tasvideos.org/272G
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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What's the difference between characters and why was this one used?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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While those are not official releases by the original author, I feel it's acceptable as long as we can know which exact versions of everything we need, and how to install them. People who maintain Debian packages sound reliable enough to me to count them as official porters at this point, when the original game is dead and hard to setup.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Loved it, voted yes!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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duuuuude5 wrote:
So far people seem to like it, but there's only 3 votes. Should we perhaps ask in the discord server for more feedback?
Makes sense, tho the judge will most likely do it after claiming.
duuuuude5 wrote:
Also thank you feos for spending so much time getting the movie to sync, I really appreciate it :)
Thanks for not making a movie that's impossible to make acceptable :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DigitalDuck wrote:
But then that leaves the question of whether a run that prioritises IGT over TAS time should obsolete, or exist in a separate branch from, one that prioritises TAS time over IGT.
If aiming for IGT only makes gameplay longer without making it faster in more relevant segments, then we consider that it doesn't make sense to aim for IGT for a particular game, at least in standard. For example imagine spamming pause to prevent IGT from incrementing: that wouldn't make the competition more fair (like it does in Sonic games), it'd just add a conflict between different speed techniques. Also IGT versus real-time is more just a timing method difference when the main content is mostly similar. If the difference is several hours worth of gameplay coming from a whole extra game completion (that is split off into a verification movie), then we can't say it's just a timing difference but a goal difference. And IGT is not a goal that is accepted to standard alongside its real-time counterpart, only to Alternative.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
feos wrote:
If the character is different and slower, that may be argued to be a harder mode/higher challenge.
This argument could be made for a different base roster character also. Would the slowest base roster character be considered a harder mode/higher challenge? I feel this would potentially make things even more confusing.
Interestingly, since characters represent clearly defined content, at the very beginning I wanted to simply allow all of them in standard. Then I thought about games that have a ton of chars, and those combined with other applicable standard branches made me like this option much less. So the only reason we don't allow all chars to co-exist is mostly logistical. On the other hand, "savegame" always felt like a clear enough in-game distinction, and since it'd only result in one extra branch for every standard category, it felt much more natural to just allow it to exist even if the benefit is minimal. If the benefit is 0, that to me means it doesn't matter if it's save anchored or not. And if the benefit is negative, I admit I've never thought of it until this new iteration of the talk, but the amount of things to be allowed is still minimal, so it's kinda fine. Strictly speaking, it's a good point that we don't accept suboptimal chars to standard as "just harder mode", so that argument of mine probably doesn't work. But my main wish is featuring objectively different content with lowest limits that we can reasonably afford.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If no unlockable characters are faster than the fastest base character and no new content is introduced, then there’s no reason to have a save anchored branch in Standard publication for that fighting game.
I personally only see the problem in "savegame" being an extra standard branch if there's no practical difference at all coming from unlockables. If the character is different and slower, that may be argued to be a harder mode/higher challenge. If the character is the same, there's no point in having both branches. Example: #8775: KusogeMan's Wii Mortal Kombat: Armageddon "Endurance, Kreate-a-Fighter" in 05:18.98
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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A public discussion is meant to happen so that people can clearly explain everything they need with no rush and with all the info being available to everyone. Only then we can come up with a proper decision. It's not about proving me wrong about something, because I very rarely have a hard stance on things. But for the sake of community discussion I explicitly request mistakes to be addressed, because without it it's just a dead end.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
The difference with how we're looking at it with the Fighting game genre is the new element being an unlocked character.
I don't see the fundamental difference from other game genres with unlockable chars.
Spikestuff wrote:
I can also refer to Digimon Rumble Arena where an unlocked character wasn't allowed, and instead a character that's available from the start would have been preferred instead.
The consensus was to move away from that limitation, so that submission would need to be unrejected at some point. It represents a situation but can't serve as example of how things should be.
Spikestuff wrote:
But we're in the new site era now where we have a new submission that's using an unlocked character in Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance which should outright obsolete the Kenshi run and be the preferred run. But isn't for some reason.
Why should it outright obsolete? I can only see why it should not obsolete:
feos wrote:
I don't want save-anchored movies to compete with power-on ones in Standard, because the former kinda give themselves a handicap which would somehow not count as a part of its completion time. I feel it's fair to instead have more branches.
I don't see what's beneficial for the community from having fewer branches in this particular case, which implies extra rules and therefore more complexity going forward.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Masterjun wrote:
Maybe more specific examples would help. For example, I thought New Game+ would cover everything, and I couldn't quite understand from the previous post why that one wouldn't work. Just to throw some ideas around (and get them refuted), couldn't we call it "2nd run" similar to the "2nd quest" things we have? Or are there some situations where you don't actually have to beat the game story?
Yeah if the most optimal unlockable (or combination of unlockables) does not require beating the main game but is locked behind an overly specific combination of completions, it may not be the Nth run through any one particular mode.
Masterjun wrote:
In that case, why not just "savegame" or "saved game" like wikipedia calls it.
Wow I love "savegame"!
moozooh wrote:
I think there is somewhat of a contradiction over the fact that we'd only accept the most optimal default character for Standard while giving a "free pass" there to an unlocked one regardless of how fast it is in comparison. I mean, what if it's the slowest character? Or at least slower than the second-best default one? (Thinking of something like Streets of Rage 3's Roo here.)
While we do indeed aim for speed optimization in standard, restricting content too much makes it a pain on the long run for all participants, because things that make sense to a lot of people still consistently get rejected like they were not worth doing. So while aiming for speed in standard we allowed a whole lot of things that feature some conceptual difference that got a community consensus. Save-based unlockables are an example of this, so the most sensible decision seemed to be to remove the need to compete with the clean-save movies. We probably didn't consider cases where all the unlockables are slower, but if the point of the category is featuring this objective difference, I think it's not a long-term problem if it's the only reason a certain extra branch exists. If there's no clear difference between a clean save and a save-anchored branch, we will only have one.
moozooh wrote:
Would it not be better to accept all characters for Standard?
A lot of people in the community don't want the site to have a separate branch for each character in, say, fighting games, where it could result in dozens of branches, because there are already all the other standard goals that could be combined with different chars.
moozooh wrote:
But to answer the question, if we need a generic branch name, would something like "fully unlocked" work?
It may not be fully unlocked, if only the most optimal things need to be unlocked.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
The following SRAM-anchored branches will be acceptable as standard publications: - Unlockable modes, characters, and difficulties. -- Assuming they can't be unlocked with in-game codes, of course. - New Game + -- This would include minor benefits such as text skipping and cutscene skipping, even if the rest of the run remains the same. -- There's still a bit of issue with, say, RPG runs that have complete data carryover, but we'll figure those out when we start getting them.
There's been a disagreement among staff regarding labeling of save-anchored branches that don't involve unlockable modes. It makes perfect sense to generalize the label for all such modes and just call it the most iconic name which is NewGame+, but when we just unlock a character and use it in the movie without entering any new modes, it feels confusing if we also call that branch NewGame+. There's an option to label them by the character name, but then it's confusing in a different way, because it may look like we accept all different characters now, while we only allow the most optimal one in standard. There are a few labels that don't sound very good like literally "save-anchored" or "unlockable X", and interestingly they kinda cover the NG+ case as well. Note: calling it just SRAM is incorrect, because SRAM does not persist across power-off unless it's battery backed, and it's not the only way to store progress anyway (memory cards are not SRAM but Flash). Any ideas how to neatly call save anchored branches so it covers all kinds of unlockables?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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What did you fix, and why replace the file?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Review: I got this to sync repeatedly, and repeatedly reproduced the setup files, and uploaded them, with meticulous instructions. I ensured the setup is acceptable, and the only thing left is evaluating the run's entertainment, which I can't do because I don't understand RPGs. I also have the lossless dump.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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