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Do you want me to also try this out? What resolution were you using?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Are you obsessed or something? Why do you ignore simple statements? If there's a common bug, people are told about it. If someone is told and ignores, you have a right to blame. If YOU do not tell them, YOU do not have a right to blame. Is a short PM so hard? Is it so hard? Would be perfectly fine to say in it: "Hey freak, you're missing an important discussion about some new bug, get your ass to IRC now!" Everyone is aware, everyone is happy. But no, it's not your style. You LOVE to piss people of.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
feos wrote:
Spikestuff wrote:
feos wrote:
Yeah, it's hard to know something no one tells you.
Not my fault you don't hang out in IRC most of the time.
Not my fault someone's too lazy to post about bugs that require manual fixing on forums. Damn, seriously? Bah!
I would repeat the IRC part because guess what has been talked about in IRC. That issue.
Awesome. I love to spend a whole week on IRC seeing nothing useful or important, and then someone blames me for not being there 24/7 instantly after, because guess what? Something of world importance happened right after I left. And it's also only my fault that something of world importance wasn't EVER announced to everyone. Only to the chosen IRC ones, yeah!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
feos wrote:
Yeah, it's hard to know something no one tells you.
Not my fault you don't hang out in IRC most of the time.
Not my fault someone's too lazy to post about bugs that require manual fixing on forums. Damn, seriously? Bah!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Was it that hard?
So you mean that encodes that are used in publications somehow weren't becoming public anymore? Then what are you referring to as "hard"? Knowing that without anyone saying it? Yeah, it's hard to know something no one tells you.
Also, since it was being done automatically for entire TVC existence, it's simply a bug that they aren't publicizing anymore.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Если изменения существенные, отменяешь и потом сабмитишь заново. Если нет - отменять ничего не надо, постишь исправленный мувик на форуме, судьи его сами заменят.
Заливать сюда: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#uploadfile
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Suggestion: please do not embed 16000000x9000000 images into forum posts, just link to them.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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endrift wrote:
That said, I do have an interest in bringing along my GBPP if I can make it to SGDQ, and having already verified Sonic Advance...that might make for an interesting accompaniment. I should be able to tell very soon if I can go.
WOULD BE SUPERB!!!
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Warp wrote:
Might I even suggest that not only would the current tiers require the game to be completed, but for it to be completed "properly".
I understand it would be a rather fuzzy definition in some cases, but IMO an ACE run that jumps to the end screen doesn't actually complete the game "properly". It would fit nicely in the "demo" tier.
My original Demo tier idea had that suggestion. But as I think of it, strictly speaking, it doesn't matter where the run is published, if it already is. Demo is a tier for runs that can't be published here right now at all, and optionally, for some current runs that might be close to those unpublished ones by some trait.
I agree with requirement to complete the game for Vault/Moons/Stars, and I don't thing anyone is really proposing forbidding game completion for Demo. So yeah, if we set such a rule (to complete the game), some Moons runs would be moved to Demo, and I totally support it.
Alyosha wrote:
'prowess' may have been poor word choice there. 'Innovation' would probably be better. But anyway, in your example a bot-generated run on wii would be interesting, but I had something different in mind for technical innovation, more along the lines of what the games and hardware can do.
Yes, this is what I disagree with. You seem to prefer hardware-ish demonstrations to all the rest. I really fail to see a harm from showcasing a result of innovative thinking/R'n'D if it's not console-verifiable. Can you tell why it's not worth it?
I decided to go through some potential demos, that one might or might not feel like seeing in Showcase tier, and see if I'd be able to invent causes to put them there. Because, it's the best test for any proposal idea, let's decide what fits and what doesn't by simply looking at examples!
#4450: TheAxeMan's NES Final Fantasy "Console Verification" in 1:11:28.35
Impressive research and development. Novel concept. Weird goal.
Moth's judgment note wrote:
this run's goal to showcase a bot that has to figure out RNG on the fly from any SRAM by letting a fight run while holding a button
#3912: adelikat's FDS Super Mario Bros. 2 in 115:17:46:40.00
Novel concept. Weird goal.
I'm pretty sure we won't need more than one run of this kind, but having exactly one most impressive is a must. There's no other way you'd ever see an endlessly syncing speedrun!
#1493: Bisqwit's DOS Star Control II in 35:03.50
Impressive research and development.
Bisqwit hacked savestates into DOSBox! However, I visualize this run rejected due to simply not syncing. And maybe due to somewhat improper implementation of TAS tools, so let this run remain a Gruefood Delight.
#2908: HappyLee's NES Super Mario Bros. "lowest score" in 14:32.80
Weird goal.
But nothing more to it really. This run would only fit in Moons, because it's just plain standard gameplay achievement, but simply not entertaining. Also only Gruefood Delight.
[2171] NES Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego? by Bobo the King in 2:01:54.05
Impressive research and development.
A run made entirely by a bot. Why is it impressive? Because it's hardly possible at all! Brute forcing takes absurd amounts of time, and is never used right away. There are only some smart algorithms to make bot's life easier and discard certainly wrong paths, but to make one, you really need to be a tech pro!
[1565] NES Lunar Pool by Bisqwit in 23:47.52
Same as above, but human did take part in it's recording. So such a run isn't unique, because you can't measure human ratio and put a limit on where you think human is allowed to participate, that wouldn't be arbitrary. So there can be only 1 clear definition: no human involved in actual recording. Then, how do we prove it, once it was claimed? There's only one way - try and run the bot, to reproduce the same run. Home machine, server, framework, whatever.
#3523: Bobo_the_King's SNES Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars "Beetle Mania" in 45:35.38
Same as above, no human involved in recording, but it's only a minigame! I don't know if we should allow minigames or hacks for Demo.
#3556: Brandon's NES Super Mario Bros. "minimum button presses" in 05:48.04
Novel concept. Weird goal. Amazing installation!
Without such a script, it'd only be a Moon candidate, and fail, but with press counter looking like that, it is a showcase of... something neat! And it can be highly competitive too.
#1991: AngerFist's NES Mega Man 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 in 02:42.90
Not sure how to categorize it.
This only beats one level, but if we aim for competitiveness, it opens some sane possibility to beat this movie: once someone beats more games at once, completing only one level, or beats more levels using the same amount of games, it might be obsoleted. However, we don't want meaningless publications too, and submitting a bunch of runs that beat more and more levels is meaningless, so we either only allow 1 level or full game, or ban single levels entirely, if aimed for completion itself.
http://tasvideos.org/Bisqwit/Projects/ChronoCross.html
This is unheard of! Impressive research and development. Novel concept.
But again, it'd be better to go on and implement TAS tools, while this work doesn't even provide a movie file.
#1504: curtmack's NES NES Test Cart in 01:31.68
This is actually a tough one. What it does is stupidly trivial. It has stupidly limited variety of actions. The end result is stupidly boring. But it's stupidly fun nevertheless! I was amazed by this movie when I saw it. More importantly, it reminds all about how input display can be used as a light organ in actual TASes.
[817] SNES Super Metroid "100%" by JXQ in 1:10:45.02[1030] Genesis Sub-Terrania by JXQ in 06:40.62#3549: Supper's DS NitroTracker "fastest song" in 00:53.94
Concept somewhat similar to the above (replay a song), but it needs a homebrew game.
Link to video
This needs a script even to record/replay something. But man, if such a run is ever made, we HAVE to find a place for it somewhere! I think the general rule for such runs could be that they need to be entertaining to justify game hacking.
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Radiant wrote:
I'm not really seeing the point of this. It seems to me that any technically interesting run already qualifies to be in Moon tier; if it didn't get into Moons, then most people wouldn't find it technically interesting for the same reason.
We don't need a whole new tier to deal with a relatively short contest.
Being technically interesting has no relation to Moons. A run could be absolutely straightforward, but well-received, and for that alone reside in Moons. A run could be maximum technical in all terms, but look boring, and if it's a speed record, it can be in Vault. It's been said enough times what difference is there between the proposed Demo tier and the others.
Alyosha wrote:
My thought there was that since these demonstrations are meant to showcase technical prowess, they should meet the highest standards of verifiability (use real hardware.)
Verifiability is a factor of emulation accuracy, not technical prowess of a run. What if I write a bot and make it do a full TAS of a Wii game? "Sorry, only console verifications, your concept demo is nothing new and too sloppy"? LOL.
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Alyosha wrote:
In addition, demonstrations must be considered a significant new contribution to existing material, and be demonstrated on reference hardware.
What's the point of such a limit? Are we only supporting console replays as demos or what?
Alyosha wrote:
Notes: I add in a documentation section as this tier is supposed to bring novel concepts that add to the knowledge base, and as such should be thoroughly documented
Good point.
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
YT encode is being ass. The dump is fine, but the encode has some lag problems. At some specific places it drops a lot of frames, then boosts the fps way up for a short time to compensate. Sometimes it even temporarily halts the audio at the high fps, which doesn't occur in audio_youtube.ogg.
I honestly have no idea what would happen if it were uploaded to youtube; it sounds like vfr, or even just my comp lagging, but neither of those make sense since it's a YT encode and it happens consistently.
Though I'll be honest that I haven't been having this problem for a whole month.
Tried test uploads? What fps do you capture at? I had desync problems with HD upload of the other Doom, seemed to be fixed by using exactly 35 fps in kkapture and uncapping the framerate in the game IIRC.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fastest crash requires little to no effort, and does not beat the game, while "minimal presses" takes huge effort to plan and is a completed playthrough. In theory, I'd say yes to a single fastest crash run that was picked from all of that kind, if it had something unique to it over all the rest.
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Yes, the page states it all like it's primarily for GDQ-like demos. But I want to say that it can't be limited to such content, because you never know what direction someone's creativity could go.
Then, to address adelikat's concern, not being Vault eligible is some default understanding, yes, but primarily, Demo tier runs have specific goal (that also makes it Vault ineligible too): not showcasing the super optimized gameplay, but something conceptually totally separated.
Also, unmoonable goals should be able to go there, like if people find something too boring, but there's something to showcase to such a run that's still worth attention, as it had significant effort.
The best example that comes to mind is that old "minimal presses" SMB. It's definitely unvaultable, but it's not described by that alone. Its goal is too boring for Moons, it's too slow for Vault, but it's something one can optimize and improve, but still it would only work when using a DDR script along with it! Then one could really understand what's being published: that whole concept.
So let's try to focus on such a definition: Runs can be published to Demo tier only if they showcase some unique and notable concept and have significant effort put into its creation.
Board games aren't that actually, they are still pure speed records, so let's not try putting them to Demo tier. Let's define the term "notable concept" instead!
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I dunno, Micro500 was telling how cool N64 on Bizhawk is during some AGDQ.
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Defining the goal is the hardest part in a Demo tier, because we want to prevent endless debates of what technical achievement deserves publication and what doesn't.
Why would such a movie be impossible to publish to other tiers? Mostly because its main goal is not gameplay itself. Its goals are what can be achieved only with a lot of effort/research/knowledge and is only somewhat related to gameplay, the latter being used only as a platform to showcase the former at.
To allow various kinds of achievements, we should not draw a clear border or direction, but do our best to figure out what we don't want to have in that tier either! And not just state things, but give examples. But I'm personally bad at that due to my inclusionist nature.
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MoronicTAS wrote:
We are using mupen, because we don't even checked bizhawk out.
Doesn't look like a reason.
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More observations.
As we can see, a normal egg has ID 26->47->48 per destruction. 48 seems to stand for explosion animation. Those eggs that duplicate don't have an explosion. It's because in the code, it's checked what value $F5 is, and during all the game, it's 0, 0x56, or 0x64. But on that single little screen, 0x66 is written there, several times. And by the looks of it, it's related to fish spawn, that appear as you walk near them.
Walking down over there spawns other enemies, and fishes don't jump. But whenever $F5 == 0x66, eggs duplicate. Unfortunately, during the whole game, $F5 is still 0, 0x56, or 0x64, and both latter numbers get checked away per egg destruction.
Language: asm
02:B304:A5 F5 LDA $00F5 = #$00 ; read from $F5
02:B306:F0 0B BEQ $B313 ; if zero, branch to $B313
02:B308:B9 9F B3 LDA $B39F,Y @ $B3BD = #$66 ; read from ROM by offset
02:B30B:30 26 BMI $B333 ; if minus, branch to $B333
02:B30D:C5 F5 CMP $00F5 = #$00 ; compare $F5 to #$66
02:B30F:F0 20 BEQ $B331 ; if equal, branch to $B331
02:B311:D0 2A BNE $B33D ; otherwise, branch to $B33D
02:B313:B9 9F B3 LDA $B39F,Y @ $B3BD = #$66 ; read from ROM by offset (again)
02:B316:10 02 BPL $B31A ; if plus, branch to $B31A and write #$66 to $F5
02:B318:A9 56 LDA #$56 ; otherwise, write #$56 there
02:B31A:85 F5 STA $00F5 = #$00
02:B31C:4C 31 B3 JMP $B331 ; go to end
[...]
02:B331:18 CLC
02:B332:60 RTS ---------------------- ; good bye
02:B333:A5 F5 LDA $00F5 = #$66 ; read $F5 once again
02:B335:C9 56 CMP #$56 ; if #$56, go to end
02:B337:F0 F8 BEQ $B331
02:B339:C9 64 CMP #$64 ; if #$64, go to end
02:B33B:F0 F4 BEQ $B331
02:B33D:20 38 81 JSR $8138 ; otherwise, go to $8138
; and there, we see:
02:8138:A9 00 LDA #$00 ; take 0
02:813A:9D DA 03 STA ID,X @ $03DF = #$47 ; write to ID instead of 48!
02:813D:BC B2 04 LDY $04B2,X @ $04B7 = #$0D
02:8140:30 02 BMI $8144
02:8142:91 65 STA ($65),Y @ $7D2A = #$00
02:8144:60 RTS -----------------------------------------
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I mean, instead of holding the mouse button while scrolling it down, in order to append some input to movie, just rightclick the needed column header and let the movie go. It will resume with your input in it already. I remember meshuggah requesting this too, then he probably moved to autohold too. But maybe in the interim build it's also implemented.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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What's next now? Alien invasion when my other self from a parallel world watches this run?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
