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[4.3%] 8523/197330 frames, 0.70 fps, 636.78 kb/s, eta 74:51:04
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If Windows and DOS are combined, we could do a smart move and put OS instead of region!
Right now, there are some DOS games that have "freeware" as a region, and some Japanese versions of Windows games. All the rest are missing the region, and some only have version numbers.
Any thoughts?
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Even though the "PC" votes are twice as many as "DOOM", and neither "Windows", nor "DOS" are even close to them, I want to state that marzo's post totally convinces me that his opinion is the most well grounded. All of us were arguing about how stuff should be organized, but he just tells us how stuff actually works!
We should not combine DOS and Windows, but where Doom belongs should still be discussed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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exileut wrote:
feos wrote:
And what about visual picture quality?
I can definitely tell a difference between 1080p and 1440p on my 1440p monitor.
My question was about 1440p and higher stuff.
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Exactly, this is why there is this thread here: should we keep splitting by software too, or only by hardware? I don't recall other examples than DOS and Windows.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
Since when was a platform exclusively defined by differences in hardware?
At TASVideos, was it not?
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TheAxeMan wrote:
Bumping this again because youtube is still missing the commentary! Please get that up, it should make this long and complicated run much more interesting and understandable.
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And what about visual picture quality?
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
What, so people wouldn't understand "Doom game?" They're all perfectly valid options; that's why the details matter
Afaik, in this case it's because Doom works as a platform. The demo files store input only, and there are enough games using the doom engine to give it a fair number of runs. If I'm interpreting this correctly, if a game's input file doesn't meet these, it would either be categorized as its OS or not accepted at all.
Could you elaborate, why do you think Doom internal demos being suitable for TASVideos movie standards justifies adding a Doom platform? And (more importantly) why is it better than placing it within existing platforms? The best way to answer would be to do what Scepheo did, listing the benefits/disadvantages.
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Is black screen with music playing intended after the "SSECRET WOODS BY CELUX AKA SKELUX" screen?
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Fair enough, thank you.
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Can you guys tell me whether you see the difference between 1440p and anything higher?
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I'm already pinging Aktan for a while.
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14256 is the frame where the ending song first loop ends.
But here rises a question: should we use that for all Doom submissions? It's not easy for the author to figure out the exact length, I did it by trimming the dump at different frames and comparing.
Neither way is consistent:
- Cutting the movie at the last input doesn't allow the demo viewers to see the ending, and forces the publisher to extent the demo just to encode the ending. But it's the best practice regarding the site's time calculations.
- Including the entire ending might be hard for the runners.
- Including only a part of it just feels wrong.
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I am absolutely sure we already published several Mupen64 runs that use resets, and I recall no problem capturing them. So now it's completely confusing to me that we suddenly can't anymore. But I'll bruteforce it by figuring out the exact first frame after reset and just capture from the savestate of it.
EDIT: 230690 is the first frame it can be paused after reset. Even if you set 230680 in the "pause movie" field. So I made a state there and resumed capture from it...
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Scepheo wrote:
glBoom is, again, a port. It is designed to mimic the original Doom, but it's not the same game. If I ported Super Mario 64 to Windows, you wouldn't care how pretty it was or how perfect the physics and everything else were copied: you would never allow it to obsolete the N64 run because it's not the same game.
Am I missing something, or you're suggesting to host DOS Doom runs separated from Windows Doom runs? "It's not the same game"!
Scepheo wrote:
feos wrote:
The benefit from it being... what?
That we actually have a proper run of the game. It would mean that we're actually TASing Doom, rather than making the best demo that Doom can play.
Elaborate on the differences between these 2, and on (again) how emulating Doom altogether is better than making an internal movie for it (have fun expanding that principle to Hourglass too).
Re: new (and new and new and new) sections for game engines.
This isn't going to end well, at all. On the long run, the line between "exception" and "rule" will become more and more esoteric, organization wise it's a total mess.
hegyak wrote:
Also to add to the trouble:
ID games made Doom II for Windows 95. It is Doom on Windows 95 (and above, including NT). Not sure if that's a "Port" or not. It does run Doom 1 and 2 and the other two WADs from Ultimate Doom's bundle.
See? Doom is just a map!
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Tested subs, and they work too.
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As for Dooms for utterly different platforms, like SegaCD or SNES, those are ran on their original hardware pieces, and emulators of those inherently allow emulating the ports, as they were actually ported.
Doom working on different OSes is not a result of porting, it's a result of using the original Doom map under the engine that was build to support different OSes. And as was noted, nothing needs to be emulated, unlike with SNES or SegaCD, the game just runs and handles input sequences. The principle of Doom demos is identical to that of Hourglass. It does not emulate.
To Radiant: would you consider ports of the same game for Windows and DOS worth be published alongside? Also, please list the disadvantages of merging them, besides "feeling less natural".
Note: I can understand DOS and Windows being linked together as Gameboys are, with still holding OS names. But we need more advantages/disadvantages of both ways, if we now narrow it down to just these 2 options.
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Radiant wrote:
Indeed. As the article you link to describes, it is a standard platform with 16 to 256 kilobytes of RAM, a single 4.77 MHz processor, and up to 20 Mb of hard drive space. I wish you best of luck getting Windows 7 to run on that :)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Radiant wrote:
windows machine
There's no such thing in nature.
Radiant wrote:
combining the NES category with SNES (since they both run on a RICOH MOS 6502 chipset).
Are you absolutely sure SNES is limited to the same architecture as NES?
Radiant wrote:
By contrast, you can in fact run Gamecube games natively on a Wii (and the two consoles share the same memory cards, controllers, and even the same emulator), so combining those in one category would actually make more sense than combining DOS and Windows.
I don't understand how you keep mixing up the terms "hardware" (console/computer architecture) and "software" (operating system).
Scepheo wrote:
How is Doom not inherently DOS? It was developed for DOS, and the original version runs only on DOS. Sure, there were ports to other systems, but when did we start considering those to be the same thing? And no, DOS had nothing to do with the making of this or any Doom TASes, but that's only true because the development of a Doom TAS is done on a port. I could make a Super Mario Bros. TAS using only a hex editor on my TI-86, but it's still an NES TAS.
First of all, DOS is only an operating system. DOOM was developed to run on any IBM PC compatible machine, and it's how we are running it actually. Sure, you can completely limit yourself to running it on DOS only, but how would you dump AVI from it then? And what quality it will be? Some may say "it will be autentic original quality", but why use poor 3D if we right now can afford superb 3D? Just run glBoom, and it starts looking as good as possible, while still syncing for the same movie. Should we drop advantages? I don't think so. It all means, DOOM is not DOS-exclusive. It's just a map.
Scepheo wrote:
However, I feel it should be done with the note that a proper, DOS-emulator-made TAS should replace it in the future.
The benefit from it being... what?
Now my actual thoughts on the matter.
Why does PC as a platform even make sense? Because there is such a platform!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer
It is not (just another) personal computer, it's Personal Computer from IBM. It has standardized architecture, as Warp said, and the idea is to have everything totally compatible between all the different implementations.
So when we put console names as a platform, we are dropping the company that made it (unless it's NES or SNES), and just go with the name of the very platform. If someone is unhappy with the term's ambiguity, we simply can use IBM PC instead of just PC. That would make the most sense possible and leave zero disambiguation. And none of the games that do not run on IBM PC compatible hardware would make it to that platform. And all that do, will be there. Again, DOS/Windows/recent OSX/even Linux are only operating systems, not hardware configurations. And they are all ran on IBM PC. If they are not, it's a different platform.
TL:DR: Combine by hardware configuration.
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The current SM74 submission.
Note 1: That freeze was occurring on win7 x64 only. On XP it captures well with Glide.
Note 2: I was using Jabo, and it couldn't resume capturing after reset. With a fast computer, could you test it? Just make sure to use kkapture.
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- uploading and deleting works as expected
- upload speed for me is ~950KB/s
- spaces in video titles aren't supported, but I see no need in them when aiming for TVC (EDIT: I think quotes are required for titles with spaces, but haven't tested)
Pending further tests...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Thanks, however now as I tested it, it has graphical glitches with Glide and it freezes some seconds in when using kkapture+Glide (no matter what resolution/Glide settings/kkapture settings). With Jabo it all goes perfect, but maximum res is 1200p.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
