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It was put to Vault when the latter was just created, and no clear rules existed for it, only entertainment cutoff. Then, as the rules were worked out, a lot of auto-vaulted runs were mooned just because of incompatible goals. This one was not noticed, because it doesn't contain unvaultable movie classes that were used to find unvaultable games that were auto-vaulted.
Another question is, was it known when this run was made, that the game can be beaten faster? Was the timesaver deliberately avoided? Because if not, it's pretty vaultable run then.
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Alyosha wrote:
Hi,
I am wondering if anyone is still working on this game. I am thinking of using it for my next project. It looks interesting.
I don't think so. What game of the 4 do you mean btw?
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It's hardcoded for whether global timer is positive (0x00 - 0x7F ) or negative (0x80 - 0xFF). At least these 2 actions. Probably there exists a moment when it realizes it must move, but we have no proof it can be adjusted. Might look into it specifically tomorrow.
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klmz:
Language: asm
$A784:A5 00 LDA $0000 = #$0A ; load global timer
$A786:5D 10 07 EOR $0710,X @ $0718 = #$00 ; xor with 0
$A789:30 D7 BMI $A762 ; if timer negative, do some code
$A78B:A9 03 LDA #$03 ; it was positive, just load 3
$A78D:9D 50 07 STA $0750,X @ $0758 = #$01 ; store it to $758
$A790:60 RTS (from $A004)
You:
Language: asm
$A784:A5 00 LDA $0000 = #$A3 ; load global timer
$A786:5D 10 07 EOR $0710,X @ $0718 = #$00 ; xor with 0
$A789:30 D7 BMI $A762 ; if timer negative, do some code
$A762:A9 80 LDA #$80 ; it was negative, jumped
$A764:20 BB A2 JSR $A2BB
$A2BB:9D C0 07 STA $07C0,X @ $07C8 = #$00
$A2BE:A9 FF LDA #$FF
$A2C0:9D D0 07 STA $07D0,X @ $07D8 = #$00
$A2C3:9D B0 07 STA $07B0,X @ $07B8 = #$00
$A2C6:60 RTS (from $A2BB)
$A767:A9 02 LDA #$02 ; load 2
$A769:9D 50 07 STA $0750,X @ $0758 = #$01 ; store it to $758
$A76C:BD 90 06 LDA $0690,X @ $0698 = #$FF
$A76F:C9 20 CMP #$20
$A771:B0 10 BCS $A783
$A783:60 RTS (from $A004)
Result:
$0000 -> $0758 -> $0678. Delay stage start by 93 frames :)
You'll still be 10 frames ahead. No guarantee other enemies will behave though XD
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I'm pretty certain this one needs a "warps" branch.
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mtvf1 wrote:
Why don't we suppose a new tier like "demo" "hack" or "cheat" tier. This tier allow the any dirty roms, allow any funny cheat, you can show apart of game, and play from dirty savestate or SRAM. And can accept some game's replay file. You can break any rules.
When published, we can use "cheat tas" and "demo tas" at title. And this tier can't be ranked.
This is exactly why we'd need a Demo tier, the only thing to make sure about if how impressive the result is, to not drown in all kinds of crappy condition runs. Impressiveness cutoff, likewise there is an entertainment cutoff for anything other than any%/100%.
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Sounds like a task for me :P
Movie file?
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I'm pretty sure we need some of those pirate NES ports of Aladdin TASed. I think I shall accept this one, with potential for the SNES port to obsolete it if liked more, but rejected otherwise.
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UR MOM IS SILLY, DOUCHE
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AFAIK none of the admin crew (except me if I belong) has read this thread. The change we're proposing now is rather huge though, and needs quite some thought put into it by a lot more people than right now.
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Woops
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
The new images are actually smaller than the old ones :P
(Except for Mr. Nutz, somehow)
THE NEW MrNutz SCREENSHOT IS 1 BYTE SMALLER!!!!!!!!!!
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It will be done as soon as I publish the 100% run.
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CPU speed is one reason. Dev needs to find a perfect balance between presenting a quality game with lots of computations and slowdown he can afford to do those calculations. Different developers were choosing different priorities. NES games from Capcom lag a lot whenever there is enough objects, Konami games don't lag, even having more object active, and it's while they are complex enough to be comparable.
Another reason is how well CPU is prepared for all kinds of shit. M68k breaks on any unknown opcode, 6502 and SNES' CPU keep executing no matter what goes wrong.
One more reason is the overall complexity of the game engine. Developers can foresee possible bugs and add workarounds or breaks. Or if they have not enough time/money, they can simply ignore them. Most of the glitches that can only happen TAS only were not known about by the devs and regular players.
I don't know if any of these is stated anywhere though/
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feos looks at the branch names.
feos looks at identical times.
feos looks at Spike calling feos silly.
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Looks (and sounds) awesome, Yes vote!
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So which one of these 2 is the actual submission?
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Updating the judging pseudocode:
Language: c
int JudgeMovie()
{
if (SubOptimal)
return Reject();
if (any% || 100%)
return Accept(Coins);
else
if (Boring || WildGoal)
if (ImpressiveAchievement)
return Accept(Demo);
else
return Reject();
else
return Accept(Moons);
}
Before voting, a person must figure out what he is looking at, and then vote depending on where it could belong. This way, if people massively vote Yes on "Should it be published" for some shitty mingame, and if it's optimally done, we must consider it agreeing with how impressive it is. For cases where people mostly do agree, there won't be any problems. For borderlines, a judge must think it over (as it is done about tier borderlines now) and make an educated decision about significance.
Demo tier must not become a dumpster for whatever doesn't belong anywhere else, it must be "stars for wild goals". We don't need a person to take care of Demo exclusively because we don't cherry-pick runs to Demo, we either publish to it straight away, or reject.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Again, it just looks like there wasn't any clear consensus. A starting point was proposed and then discussion just stopped abruptly and nothing really came of it. Unless there was discussion and a verdict reached behind the scenes (and if so, why was it not publicized?), the only thing about that thread that implies failure is that it hasn't been touched in nearly a year.
The thread as it is shows one thing: there can not ever be clear criteria for the Demo tier. However, if the poll becomes "should it be published?" with consideration for the logic I proposed ITT, it may become possible to vote like this:
- Yes, it should be published as a technically impressive concept demo.
This way, all the unimpressive demos will still be dumped, and the worthy ones will be published.
Borders of technical impressiveness are not clear either though.
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Well, it's not totally broken: we can dump unstretched pixels to avi and then apply SAR via x264, making the player fix the aspect ratio. I don't think it will be worse than stretching them in gens (to 320x224, which is not 4:3) and then stretching them again to 4:3.
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dunnius wrote:
Regarding the Final Fantasy 1 "console verification" TAS, I understand why it was rejected since it does not fit in any tier in the current system. It is a shame though because of its technical achievement. That got me thinking about Gruefood Delight, where the TAS is now.
In the proposed system, it would have been rejected as well, but what if we added another category that would replace the vault tier? It could be named something along the lines of Demo, and would be the best of the Gruefood Delight. It would be TAses that demonstrate something technical, interesting, important, etc, but don't fit in the main categories. This way they can still be published, but get "vaulted". This kind of "vaulting" makes more sense than how it is done now.
Speaking of naming for the proposed, what if the category now known as Moons was named Superplay, and Vault named Speedrun? This is a play off of the 'S' in TAS being known as either, and each applies to the category.
Speedrunning (tool-assisted) is also superplaying.
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Then it appears the old as my granny guideline about unchecking "Proper Aspect Ratio for LowRes" (when the game uses lowres most of the time) is completely failed?
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Woah, where you got that (nick)name? Sounds shamelessly Russian :D
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I'll just note that SMB(E) was not rejected, it was canceled.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
