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What happened to the branch once again? Can't it give less details and more global difference?
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People requesting to revisit the tier decision (along with terrible ratings) is a reason to move things to Vault to me.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I consider all my questions solved now. Exceptions are allowed case-by-case, this is such a case, DKC2 and Earthbound are such cases.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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That's weird how people defend use of GT code and don't suggest any fixes to the rules. Guys, on what grounds should we allow it? If the rules are wrong, and some cheat/debug codes must be allowed that yet aren't, post suggestions how to account for that. Otherwise it's just ignoring the rules and going nowhere.
EDIT:
Personally, I would vote for this one obsoleting the current glitched any% just by entertainment alone, even if speed differences are irrelevant with so different conditions. But I don't have a perfect solution for the debug code issue.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Probably the rules must be changed to "cheat/debug codes that make the game harder, or more entertaining, are allowed, others are not". Because yes, we use cheat codes that unlock characters, difficulties, level sets, endings... It's a game after all, made for enjoyment. Once you get right what brings more enjoyment, you can build the right rules around that.
That would make sense in all cases: Konami code makes Contra run stupid and dull, GT code makes the any% super metroid look easier, cheat for 10 lives makes Battletoads easier. But the same codes can make the games harder/more entertaining if used in right conditions, as we see here.
Saying that, I still feel uneasy while thinking of allowing directly entering cheat/debug codes that JUST cut some time out of the run. Because with some exceptions, it still messes up the whole clarity concept.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's how the current setup works: first you publish under the existing player entry, then you manually create one for 2 players, if it doesn't exist. And each time I forget to create it, people ask why only 1 player is listed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Radiant wrote:
I don't think there's a meaningful difference between a "debug code" and a "cheat code". Both are basically there to make testing the game easier in development, and neither is a part of normal gameplay.
This run uses a trick that is erroneously called in-game cheat to collect all 75 Kremkoins on Pirate Panic.
Just curious, but what do you mean by this? Is it not a cheat?
All cheats on this game are performed in the character select screen, pressing down a lot of times (I think it's twelve times?), so this is more like a shortcut to play the Lost World when you don't want to worry about the bonus rooms.
Also that. If it's also achieved by glitching the game into using the possibilities hidden under cheats, it's OK. Calling them directly as they were intended to be called by developers (debug codes) or players (cheat codes) is not OK.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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After the movie was improved the frames that were suggested for screenshots were shifted. I don't know the game, can you post the real frames now?
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Patashu wrote:
Please answer this:
Why is an Earthbound TAS that accesses the debug menu unexpectedly OK, but a Super Metroid TAS that accesses a debug feature unexpectly NOT OK?
Please read my first post on page 3.
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Cpadolf wrote:
I don't think I would have had the motivation to do the non GT-Code version of this run. I knew there was a good chance it wouldn't be published and I understand the reasoning behind that but I still wanted to make it.
How about turning it into a rickroll within the "arbitrary code" branch if this version isn't accepted?
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Can you guys describe what debug tools you were using, and how in general?
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DarkKobold wrote:
I don't see how this run could possibly replace the current any% run. It uses the GT code. We don't allow the 30 lives code in Contra, or the level select in TMNT2, I don't see why this code would be given special treatment.
From the policies side, I completely agree with this (will mention Earthbound later). Once you accept a run that uses a cheat/debug code/combination to complete the game faster, the borderline completely vanishes. Then, the question would become "which is the cheat/debug code/combination" that we somehow do allow now, and and which kind of them is still not allowed (yet)? And Why do we allow these ones and not those? And it will become an endless flamewar. Seriously thinking over which cheat codes are "good" and which are "bad" is a bad idea.
Now about the "precedent". From this thread posts is looks like, in Earthbound no one is actually using codes. The game is being glitched to activate certain features, that appear to be hidden. Like, one corrupts memory and codes his own features into the game, allowing faster completion.
What I see in the above case is not using combinations of buttons/moves the developers used to access the hidden features, it's coding your own access to those features through our common technique - heavy memory corruption.
Once a player does use some moves/buttons the devs were using for debugging, it's a cheat code and must be banned. And not just because otherwise the games become too easy, or reproducible in real time. It's because otherwise the clarity of our concept dies.
So we need to figure out: can that GT code routine be accessed/activated just by memory corruption? If yes, we ignore the cheaty combinations and access to features we can access to, by our common and legit technique. If GT code can only be triggered by using the named intended combinations, then we can't use it.
Clarification. All the above only concerns the speedrun. We can not compare speedruns that avoid such codes with ones that use them. But once it's a playaround/arbitrary code glitchfest, it's all yours! Any feature that would make the result more entertaining is allowed, be it 30 lives in contra or 10 lives in Bt&DD.
Garrison wrote:
Just purely on an entertainment level, this new TAS has no dull sections. Even the pause abuse as silly as it looks, is very intense for the audience to see and leads to suspense at what's coming after the next pause. XRay TAS has samus wrapping across the screen in an empty room over and over.
I agree completely. This new run is even more intense to me (non-metroid fan) than the RBO one. It's just nonstop action and density! But still, we can't compare cheaty speedruns to pure ones.
So I would reject this submission, but use all available means to encourage the authors to turn it into a glitchfest. Just go up to the point where the game end is triggered, show part of the ending, and then rickroll. Would be TAS of the year definitely.
As for the "too many branches" issue, it's easy. The audience just sits together and decides which branches represent enough unique content over the rest. If some of them suddenly is felt as similar to another, they can obsolete one another. Because I personally can't believe that SM does indeed provide variety for endless amount of branches. As not a fan, I can watch nearly none of them to the end. So not only SM fans should participate, but all the people.
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feos 2014-02-10 wrote:
Let's say for Super Metroid someone makes a run that brings the game to end without X-Ray use, and without all the usual sequence of running through rooms and getting into the ship. And it would be awesome and people like it separately, and want to leave X-Ray run published.
1 month 10 days later...
You guys are fast!
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Confirmation from Kiske?
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Which kind of means it's only HD and uploading that's left :)
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thatguy wrote:
Voting for this not to obsolete the two-player run but rather to create separate branches.
Even without watching the last 2P run, I agree that it shouldn't be obsoleted. It's a common tradition now and then, that good games provide enough fun for both player modes.
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Yes, if mtvf1 isn't improving it.
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Scumtron wrote:
Close enough
Old style
Language: lua
function GetCell(X,Y)
local temp = memory.readbyte(0xE7CC+SHIFT(X,4))+memory.readbyte(0x5F)
if (temp >= 0xC0) then temp = temp-0xC0 end
Y = Y-0x40
if (Y < 0) then Y = 0 end
temp = SHIFT(Y,5)+temp
return temp
end
function DrawBG(arg,offset,x,y)
local color2 = "#00ff00ff"
local function box(color,text)
gui.box(x,y+offset,x+16,y+offset+16,color)
if (text == 1) then
gui.text(x+1,y+offset+1,string.format("%d",arg))
end
end
local function line(up,down,left,right)
if (up == 1) then gui.line(x ,y+offset ,x+16,y+offset ,color2) end
if (down == 1) then gui.line(x ,y+offset+16,x+16,y+offset ,color2) end
if (left == 1) then gui.line(x ,y+offset ,x ,y+offset+16,color2) end
if (right == 1) then gui.line(x+16,y+offset ,x+16,y+offset+16,color2) end
end
if (arg ~= 0) then
if (arg == 1) then line(0,0,0,1) -- right wall
elseif (arg == 2) then line(0,0,1,0) -- left wall
elseif (arg == 3) then line(0,0,1,1) -- two-sided wall
elseif (arg == 4) then line(1,0,0,1) -- right corner
elseif (arg == 5) then line(1,0,1,0) -- left corner
elseif (arg == 6) then line(1,0,1,1) -- two-sided corner
elseif (arg == 7) then line(1,0,0,0) -- floor
elseif (arg == 8) then box("#ff000066",0) -- ejecting block
elseif (arg == 9) then box("#00ff0066",0) -- ladder
elseif (arg >= 12) and (arg <= 15)
then box("#ffffff66",0) -- exits
else box("#00ff0066",1)
end
end
end
function ViewBG(style)
-- feos, 2014
-- style: 0=none, 1=new, 2=old, 3=both
local base = 0x300
local RyuX = memory.readbyte(0x86)
local RyuY = memory.readbyte(0x8A)
local RyuYspeed = memory.readbytesigned(0x89)
local RyuXspeed = memory.readbytesigned(0xAD)+memory.readbyte(0xAC)/256
if (AND(memory.readbyte(0x84),4) == 0) then RyuYspeed = 0 end
local RyuCell = GetCell(RyuX, RyuY+RyuYspeed)
local RyuRow = math.floor(RyuCell/6)
local Screen = memory.readwordsigned(0x51)
if (AND(style,1) == 1)
and (memory.readbyte(0x1FC) == 0x87)
or (memory.readbyte(0x1F3) == 0xD8) then
for tRow = RyuRow-14, RyuRow+14 do
for tLine = 0,5 do
local address = base+((tRow*6+tLine)%0xC0)
local hi = SHIFT(memory.readbyte(address), 4)
local lo = AND(memory.readbyte(address),0xF)
local x = (tRow-RyuRow)*16+RyuX-RyuX%0x10-Screen%0x10
local y = tLine*32+64
DrawBG(hi, 0,x,y)
DrawBG(lo,16,x,y)
end
end
gui.box(xpos-9,ypos+RyuYspeed-1,xpos+5,ypos+RyuYspeed-5,"#0000ff66")
end
if (AND(style,2) == 2) then
for cell = 0,191 do
local hi = SHIFT(memory.readbyte(base+cell), 4)
local lo = AND(memory.readbyte(base+cell),0xF)
local bX = math.floor(cell/6)
local bY = cell%6
local rX = (RyuRow%32)*6-1
local rY = math.floor(RyuY/16)*8-32
if (hi == 0) then hi = " " else hi = string.format("%X",hi) end
if (lo == 0) then lo = " " else lo = string.format("%X",lo) end
gui.text(bX*6,bY*16+9,hi.."\n"..lo)
gui.box(rX,rY,rX+6,rY+8,"#00ff0000")
end
end
end
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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They are. Improvements keep coming and the result is reported to be so amazing they don't want to spoil.
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Woops, encodes broke, will redo later.
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Dooty wrote:
I admit I was kinda "when are they going to double ko this time?", and I'm a little disappointed by the lack of it, but it was pretty entertaining.
My feeling exactly. Except that I wasn't entertained.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Well, it's usually up to the author. If one wants shorter time, he stops as soon as possible no matter what can be skipped afterwards, as long as the game will finish by itself. Then, some people can skip cutscenes to make the very end appear sooner. The same is with entering your name. If it's nothing too important, it can be ignored. In a Tetris playaround, the way name typing is done is entertaining by itself, so it's there.
If you wish, you can type the name as fast as possible and then cut the movie once no other input can speed the ending up. Maybe it would be better after all, because it seems the game needs some input to continue after name typing, right? Like, it won't show the very last screen unless you put your name in.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
in the dipswitches
Where is that?
EDIT: OK, found it in the input menu after the game is loaded.
Now, as I watched the movie, I want to ask: what was the reason to resume movie for a while after you entered your name? Here it's common to stop it as soon as no other input is provided.
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What's the trick with the japanese version of this game? It doesn't seem to exist exclusively. Maybe I need some special bios other than neogeo?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Old style
