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I didn't see the staff's ideas on the new site design/system/cource written anywhere, so I'll just post my own thoughts.
We have recently ran into several cases of weirdness, that was caused (how I see it) by the will to make the judgement of the TASes less vague. And the site admins went a certain path that seems a bit unwise to me. Though, it looked like a case that just must be inveastigated from the long-term goals perspective. What MAY that technical clarity cause in future? How dangerous is it?
I'm talking bout those obsoletions, where a certain game-breaking glitch, that cuts the most gameplay off the run, was enough reason to obsolete the full-gameplay run, that also happened to use the same glitch, it just wasn't known to cut that much back then. This looks rather reasonable and fair - from the technical viewpoint. The old usage of that glitch is considered suboptimal, thus the whole old run is suboptimal from that moment. This happened to several gameplay-based TASes, that were obsoleted by the Glitched branches.
A WISE obsoletion system is what represents the face of the site, and of the TASing as a form of art. Thus I suggest to keep the "fastest gameplay" goal totally inviolable for any game that actually has that branch.
This really rises a complicated question: how to judge cases where the same glitch that was used here and there, still not breaking the game, now breaks to the ending or something like that. I say: let the goal resolve everything! After all, we still don't have a clear definition on when the branch actually becomes Glitched. It was obvious in most cases, BUT not in all. And in some it may even make us kill our own site's awesomeness.
Let's keep one-level breaks as still the "gameplay-based" boundaries. RockMan is a perfect example, when the player is moving on the razor's edge between gameplay and glitched branches. Still it is a default branch, because it actually plays and beats the game. If the player breaks through MORE THAN ONE level at once or ALMOST ALL levels in similar fashion - it is a glitched branch. I can't recall any exact examles of that, most of the glitched runs either call the ending from the middle of the game, or screw the very game so much it all becomes a broken toy, that is still beaten sucessfully.
And we have to ignore the TYPE of the glitch used to break something. If one glitch allows to call the Level End or the Game End, it shall be allowed in both branches, because it is ONLY ONE of the aspects of the gameplay-based run, while it really becomes the heart of the glitched run. Such approach would never let us lose the TAS records face, always keeping the gameplay optimisation in the proper, easy-to-find place.
I'm also suggesting to unobsolete the runs like any% SML2 or 4:21 Chrono Trigger - their defailt branches can only be obsoleted by a better optimisation or better glitches usage, that won't still step over the gameplay goal. That concerns the fastest Battletoads as well, that WAS really a run that represents the TAS art via both aspects: gameplay optimisation and glitches.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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AnS wrote:
feos wrote:
TAS is about testing actual choices.
Indeed, it is about comparing actually accomplished choices. But until the choice is only in your mind, you cannot test it, because you lack the information and processing power to emulate it for certain.
You apply to reality the best choice you come up with in mind. If it does not provide the result you want, it's experience would anyway be considered, as after applying it you widen your mental outlook. After all, you wouldn't test DYING every frame in a game you need to win just for the sake of experiment. Because common sense tells you it's stupid without any tests.
The aspect that makes life more complicated is that you have to WAIT for second chances. However, it's not stupidly random by itself, so it implies you had enough time to analyse the new experience and change the actions to change the outcome.
What I really believe in, is that in future we could study the true ways to achieve things never supposed to happen in reality (free levitation and stuff). Once we have an idea of some "impossible" ability, and put enough effort to think it over from the very depth, it might move from "impossible" rank to just "very hard". After all, no one knows what is REALLY impossible, and what just seems impossble for now...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Just discovered this game. And bumping the thread with no stuff from myself, but someone might be interested.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DaTeL237 wrote:
You cannot predict every situation, so you cannot make the best choice in a TAS sense.
You don't know whether a lottery ticket is the winning one, you don't know whether you'll be happy with person X, etc. With TAS tools 'the right choice' amounts to the best outcome instead of some choice that incorporates all kinds of factors (risk)
I meant discovering the best way to "actually act" by deep analysis of possible further developments. When you can't DECIDE what option of behaviour to choose for some PRESENT problem. Just imagine them all and develop in mind until the result guessed by common sense is obvious. Even if the situation makes you say to yourself: "WTH, I don't even!" - keep developing it. This is how TASing works. TAS is about testing actual choices.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You don't need tools to TAS your real life. Just learn the complete lesson from every imperfect situation you get into (may require several "tests" if you're not that good learner) and it will repeat to allow you to do all perfect next time.
Thinking over all the possible versions of potential behaviour (until it's obvious whether the path is good or bad) helps a lot too. In every tiny task I get, that's unknown to me, new in any way, I industriously ask myself, how to do that in the best way. The answer appears, as it does during regular game TASing.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Very good!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Nach wrote:
How's it going here? Is there a file you guys want to offer to replace the submission with?
Zlomus was silent for 2 weeks in my ICQ, so I guess he's currently satisfied with this one, unless he succeeds in the Reset glitches (which isn't going to happen soon, if at all possible). The movie I linked doesn't have additional frame, so here's the fixed movie:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/1802319023889578
EDIT: As MESHUGGAH significantly improved the movie and his input was added to the final one, I think he also must be considered a co-author, despite he doesn't claim it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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CubaIsDeath wrote:
very interesting bug. I never saw it coming really lol. is there any way this could be done on console using that one guy's (I totally forget his name, I'm sorry) robot that reads the inputs? or is there too much risk of corrupting the cart to do so?
The cart won't suffer at all. But note that Battletoads are almost impossible to sync perfectly because of inaccurate emulation. Jumping into a hole definitely works though. But the result is that complex you can't be sure. I'd predict desync on the way TO the hole. If not, then the resulting effects would be totally different anyway.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Mine was even faster, haha.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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They don't. My run obsoleted the SNES one. I didn't know about any differences in the engine btw. I probably must test it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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That would never happen with any toads wip or info I see hehe.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Then make sure to post all the progress, that'd allow to compare, as I'm familiar with almost all aspects you may meet, and I'll report if the game is missing some speedwise things or having new ones. I'd expect the physics to be basically the same, but who knows.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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They can't co-exist due to equal engine and gameplay (I didn't check if there are any differences). Though, after porting, the game lost so many effects and features, that I can't stand it at all. Even the 7-bit samples - it ROCKS thanks to those lag delays! The whole thing looks and sounds brutal and cool, while both ports look just like a soap. Fie!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Dooty wrote:
SNES, 2 Players, as fast as my free time allows me to dedicate myself to the run.
and by the by, I love to watch NES runs, really, but I only play SNES games, maybe because I never owned a real NES? I do not know, I never owned a Genesis also, so that may be it :)
Then again, how would a judge compare the time at all? If you TAS it on SNES using 90% of tricks, even 100% of tricks woudn't be faster on NES! Because EVERY final blow has ~8 frames of lag on NES.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Dooty wrote:
Battletoads & Double Dragon on BizHawk
What platform? What goal?
For NES, BH doesn't emulate that game ideally because of not perfect implementation of mapper 7. If SNES, the runs won't be comparable with the NES one, because of no laggy samples. Also, the NES game was original.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Oh gosh, I recognize that style!
>_>
Overall it looks really awesome, except that I missed flying on the higherst speed all around the screen in level 2 and in the jet race. Try adding more speedy fooling around.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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rainwarrior wrote:
Hey, someone told me I should post here about the Battletoads Disassembly at google code. I did a small amount of work, figuring out and annotating the code that decodes the text in the game. There's an thread on the nesdev forums with all the info. Just thought you might want to use it.
Oh hi! I can add you to contributors to actually take your part. We were basically transcribin the game logics (but the levels seem transcribed too), so you can add text and other graphics info and whatever. We use IDA 5.2.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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[22:28] <Ilari> Heh, if/when Nethack is submitted, the submission comments are going to be so long that those are split into couple wiki pages...
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Pasky13, can something like that be done for isometric games like Battletoads? At least for vertical and horizontal dimentions. If necessary, we have an IDB file with many discovered addresses.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The thread lloks so mad, wooh!
Spikestuff wrote:
Guga wrote:
The fact that you were the WR holder doesn't actually help with your argument. In fact, it makes you look stupid.
Which now make sense on why it's on Crappy YouTube videos thread now.
Some other thread was moved into here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
