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Amaraticando wrote:
gbreeze wrote:
I'm wondering if that lateral clip was the same one ISM did in his 96exit wip years ago or something new?
ISM, indeed, used that clip in a WIP. People called that upward corner clip and it was considered luck, and some people made a confusion between that and the 'corner clip without sprinting' technique.
It was clarified here (2013/03): http://smw-tas.blogspot.com.br/2013/03/lateral-block-clipping.html
But it was never used in an official TAS again, as far as I know.
I just realised the reason for that clip when I drew the hitbox (interaction points) between big Mario + Yoshi vs blocks: the distance between the shoulders and Mario's ass is bigger than the block.
Oh yeah, that was me and.. I think Hoorayforjay? who thought it was an upwards corner clip when we first watched it. Anyways, awesome that it finally got some use in an actual TAS. Also, I just realized that I think this TAS is the winner for biggest rerecord to frame ratio for SMW (either this or SDW any%). I remember a long time ago when I thought that 100K rerecords to 25K frames in my IA2 TAS was a lot... that was a while ago.
Anyway, like I've already mentioned, I'd definitely be interested in seeing a 96 exit update sometime in the future (and who knows, maybe Panga's small only will finally see an update).
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How did I not see this until now???? As everyone already said, the improvements in this are incredible, the amount of genius needed to come up with them is really impressive, especially the less obvious things like keeping flight status in dsh or that insane block duplication strat in yi2. Also glad that downward coner boosts in water levels have finally been used. I'm wondering if that lateral clip was the same one ISM did in his 96exit wip years ago or something new? I haven't read up on it yet. And of course yi4 and sw3. Also DO IT.
bahamete wrote:
I'd love to see a 96 run from the Brazilian team, very much so.
Completely agree!! You guys continue to impress in everything you do.
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I already posted this in the Super Mario Advance 2 forum, but I'll post it here too. This is a canceled work in progress of a 100% TAS of SMA2, getting all the dragon coins. I was around six seconds or so ahead of ISM when I quit at Lemmy's Castle. If anyone is currently working on it, this could serve as a comparison.
WIP
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Eszik wrote:
Even though I love this run and voted yes, I still hope someone will eventually put the time and effort needed into an optimized run using cloud. Nonetheless, congrats to all the TASers on improving this run, and hopefully we'll see a console verification of this run for the first time :D
The cloud strategy is really only useful for real time speedrunning; for TASing it's arbitrary since "eating" a chuck can get you to the credits instead.
Yes vote!
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Awesome work as expected. Yes vote! I liked the use of recently discovered glitches, namely the "forcing yoshi inside the wall" glitch. The level of optimization is also insanely good, and I think the impressive re-record count attests to that.
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I started working on a 100% completion TAS of Super Mario Advance 2 a while ago, after I finished my any% TAS. I am posting this here because I don't feel like I will complete it. I am also unhappy with a few unoptimized parts.
I basically followed the same route as ISM's TAS wtih various improvements. Much of the time saved comes from less lag by using a newer emulator, but I found a few time saving tricks.
The reason I got a yoshi in VD3 was to obtain a yoshi wings exit in Cheese Bridge Area. Also if anyone wants to upload this for some reason anywhere, go ahead.
http://bin.smwcentral.net/u/17388/SMA2%2B100%2525%2BWIP%2Bby%2Bgbreeze.vbm
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jlun2 wrote:
This run beats the previous one by 14.84 seconds, thanks to many optimizations and using the Japanese version.
Wait, so is this:
maziari wrote:
The U version has 56F more lag in the Title/Opening screen than the J version.
But, J version has about 25F more lag than U version in each stage.
After about 3 stages, the U version is ahead.
Just due to different emulation from vba or does that hold true regardless if it's the vba-m or the old branch?
I think it has to do with the emulation. Using my VBA version, I checked both the U and J version side by side and comapred them, and there is hardly any change in lag throughout the levels (definitely not 25 frames per level, it's more like 1 or -1). I still believe that the J version is definitely faster.
Anyways, I'm glad everyone enjoyed this run!
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Mister wrote:
I think it's also useful in VoB2b of SMW.
Nice find! It looks like it's definitely useful in that level. What about Forest ghost house? It may be possible to clip through some blocks in the beginning and avoid having to corner clip later.
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Mister wrote:
It's been one and a half month since it got rejected. I asked maziari if he would work together then, and he answered no if I remember correctly. However, I don't know his final decision nor whether he's still working on it. He also said that he was going to post his WIP (and he hasn't yet). I guess he suffers from the language barrier. In any case, SMA2 doesn't have its own topic, so does anyone want to make one? It would be a more suitable place to discuss further the future run than here.
Well, I started working on a 100% WIP of SMA2 (getting all the Yoshi coins) and following basically the same route as ISM did. Right now I'm on vanilla dome 3 and around 6 or 8 seconds ahead of ISM. As for the any% of this, I don't think anyone is actually currently working on it.
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I understand how this run is sub-optimal, but does it not still beat the current run that is published at this site? I may not understand the TASVideos rules completely.
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bahamete wrote:
gbreeze wrote:
bahamete wrote:
Post.
Well, if I redo this run, should I do it on the Japanese version?
If that question was directed at me, maybe you should actually read my post. I don't think this movie should be rejected based on version differences, only because of known improvements. By the way, maziari is working on improvement to this run, he has saved 13 frames up to dp1 (I hope he won't mind me saying) - maybe you could contact him and work together rather than 2 separate runs being created. I look forward to an optimal one. :)
Oh, okay! Well, I started a run on the Japanese version, and 59 frames of lag are saved from using that version.
Oh alright! I actually found his twitter account; it seems he saved 17 frames (11 on yi3 and yi4). I was able to save over 6 frames on C1, so maybe we could work together.
I'm currently trying to figure out how fadeout lag works.. it seems like it works with the frame (and maybe the x position) the goal post is touched..
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feos wrote:
gbreeze, what are your plans?
I plan on improving it in the future, but I don't have the addresses for the Japanese version. It'll also take a while for me to finish it, so don't expect a new run anytime soon from me.
Eventually I want to submit a better run, but not nearly soon enough to cancel this run.
Edit: Just found the x speed address. The run still won't be done in quite a long time though.
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bahamete wrote:
Post.
Well, if I redo this run, should I do it on the Japanese version?
Mister wrote:
Post.
Oh, I didn't know about some of that stuff. Thanks!
By the way, do you know the addresses for x speed and position in the Japanese version?
I'm testing the C1 idea right now.. I also feel like ds1 and sw1 are un-optimized.
Also, for the ds1 improvement, does the same apply for getting the blue Yoshi in sw2? I tried to optimize it by stopping 1/1.
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Or can I just resubmit? I'd have to do new level comments on every level, since frames were saved on every level. And yes, it's still only mine. It's almost like an entirely different run (250 frames were saved over my last run).
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Mister wrote:
Mister wrote:
1. Could you explain why did you avoid the strategies which had been used in the snes run? Namely, (a) the bowser fight, (b) the sw3 strat, (c) the passing-through-stair trick in dsh, and (d) jumping at the very beginning of the second room in ds1.
I just noticed you'd missed (d). That would enable you to take off slightly farther from the question block, and you would lose less amount of speed.
Good luck!
So I just finished the new run, do I cancel this one and submit the new one? It's completely different (except for the first two levels).
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Mister wrote:
gbreeze wrote:
DSH: I'm confused.. I did clip through the stairs. If you're talking about why it is slower, than it's because you need to have 51 speed in order to clip the stairs. The qualifications are tighter in SMA2, whereas in the snes version it is extremely easy.
What I wanted to ask is whether the "sliding-through-stairs" trick is possible in sma2, which is exactly what was used in the most recent dsh strategy. It's essentially the same as the flying-trough one but has much tighter qualification. You may have to examine it after simulating what movement is ideal.
gbreeze wrote:
2. I'm confused by what you mean, but I feel like that part is improvable as well. I may experiment with jumping off the p-switch and spinjumping off the podoboo.
In the sixth jump, you're too far from the ceiling, which means that you grabbed the fence a little earlier. To prevent that, you could have simply jumped higher, but you must have stopped from doing so by the enemy above. My point is to spinjump there instead so as to manage a jump with small initial y-velocity. In that case, you will have to be small mario.
Oh, I see what you're saying now! I'll definitely have to look into that. Dsh was really un-optimized.
Yeah, the enemy did stop me, but I just tried a different strategy where I drop the p-switch, spinjump off it, and spinjump off the podoboo. It only saved 3 frames though.
Edit: Somehow I saved a frame in the auto scroll portion. I just used the snes any% method of getting a cape in dp1 to save some time too.
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Mister wrote:
Post.
1. Bowser fight: I thought that the new strat wasn't possible in SMA2, but I recently realized it was after submitting.
SW3: Every time I tried to throw the p-switch to get the block, Mario wasn't high enough. I could keep trying though. Also, in SMA2, you have to wait a few frames to be able to grab the key, unlike the snes version.
DSH: I'm confused.. I did clip through the stairs. If you're talking about why it is slower, than it's because you need to have 51 speed in order to clip the stairs. The qualifications are tighter in SMA2, whereas in the snes version it is extremely easy.
2. I'm confused by what you mean, but I feel like that part is improvable as well. I may experiment with jumping off the p-switch and spinjumping off the podoboo.
3. I think it may be, but I'd have to experiment. It may be faster to get a feather in Sw4 and use the reserve feather to fight bowser. In that case, I couldn't take damage in room 2.
4. In SMA2, there is only one button for flying, so you only have a few frames to be able to spin the cape while flying (only in a rise). I had to slow down there, but I may be able to avoid slowing down using a different strat.
5. Oh, I didn't know that! I'll have to use that.
Thanks for your input! I may have no choice but to restart this run from Ds1...
EDIT: Redoing, just saved some frames in yi4..
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Nice job so far!
That is wierd.. probably just frame rules. Something like that happened when I was TASing Item Abuse, I did the intro screen a frame after everyone does it, and it put me 1 frames behind. After the overworld, a gained 2 frames. When I started the level, I had gained 3 frames. Sometimes just waiting 1 frame can change overworld lag I guess... and of course nobody discovers these because no one tries to be a frame behind.
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Well bahamete may be more skilled now than he was back then, but it's still a great run. This hack is one of the best hacks around. Yes vote...
Isn't Mister doing a run of this?
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ais523 wrote:
<ais523> anyway, I really like the visible sequence breaking in the KMW1 TAS; it's way more visible than in pretty much any other game
<Nach> ais523: then write it in the thread
<nitrog_phone> I'd rather not skim through 5 pages of comment that AREN'T on the run
<ais523> Nach: I did
<ais523> shall I write it again?
Edit to avoid double-post: If Masterjun's right about this being suboptimal, though, that would be a good reason to reject in its own right.
He saved 10 frames of lag, so maybe.
EDIT: Cancelled. I honestly have to agree that Kaizo is not a very good SMW hack in terms of quality at all. I've hacked SMW a lot myself and I could probably make a better hack in 10 minutes. Sorry to waste everyone's time :P
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Mister wrote:
Radiant wrote:
HappyLee wrote:
There are hacks like Item Abuse and VIP series that are way more well-designed than this one, and their TASes looks very amazing.
Could you give us a link to these TASes, so that those of us less versed in SMB editing can look at the difference?
VIP runs are summarized in these posts Post #224083, Post #239235, or its thread.
------
As for the submission, I enjoyed the run so much because I'm one of numerous fans of the original kaizo playing videos which won a high popularity in nicovideo. It's no exaggeration to say that the kaizo TASes are some of the runs which made TAS movies so popular in niconico. This run is really well made, and the historical background (described above) also gives it a great significance. I think, however, that Nach's point on the kaizo 2 submission applies to this run as well. There are lots of hacks with better design to be published which carry more TASing-oriented potential. I'm just hoping for young TASers to work on non-kaizo hacks.
I don't mean it's bad to work on kaizo hacks. They sometimes provide us crazy ideas which rarely occur while TASing non-kaizo ones, and they improve our skills widely. For example my knowledge fostered in the work of various hacks (including kaizo 2!) has been applied to smw any%. I really want to recommend the authors to take their excellent abilities into a new stage.
Voted no.
Yeah, looking at it, it is a rather poorly made hack. It does focus on difficulty, but many hacks are much more creatively better and more difficult. Cool or Cruel is much more creative and cool looking, though it suffers from the same problem as Kaizo does. There are many other hacks of SMW that could be TASed, but their TASes look similiar to SDW in that the levels will eventually have the player continuously flying through every level. The thing about Kaizo and Pit hacks is that there's more to them than just jumping and flying through every level.
I wonder if Item Abuse 1 or 2 would be accepted. I'm about to be the record holder for Item Abuse 2 as soon as I finish my TAS. The hacks look much better than Kaizo. Do you think IA2 would have a chance?
Also, Dawn's Item Abuse could be improved, I saved 7 frames over his just testing something.
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Here's another improvement to the 96 exit..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0yJsDKl5jk&feature=plcp
This is faster than ISM's wip because you can avoid haveing to stop to start yoshi flight. Also, frames can be saved on all the rope mechanisms.
