Gladly. I once was watching a twitch stream by Torje...
okay, this isn't as game-changing as you make it out to be and is something relatively well-known, nor does it substantially change the route as you were implying. as i mentioned before, obviously there are better versions of the general tactics used in the current any% RTA route that could be done faster (because of no setup) in TAS. opening the spider web the fast way is not very different, and to the uninitiated it's probably not much more interesting. you were going on about TAS only tricks and yet your example is a human-possible trick made slower by setup; that should say something about the accuracy of your point.
with the bluster of an expert, you made it out to be like the any% TAS would be this completely different experience from RTA, worlds ahead, when this isn't the case. what i said before still stands: the any% TAS isnt getting rushed into existence right now because it's going to be an insane amount of work (in dolphin, where none of the currently-existing tools work) relative to the payoff. 'but there are some faster strats!!' doesn't change that fact. again, if you think the quick spiderweb and some optimal sidehops are so captivating you're welcome to TAS it yourself; the community would be very helpful.
Since when have we stopped making a TAS for a game if it's "too similar" to the unassisted run? I have never heard of such a principle before.
this is an explanation for why nobody is Absolutely Hyped to make the any% TAS, not an explanation for why it shouldnt be done. we all wish there was an up to date any% TAS made in dolphin, but nobody wants to put in the time at the moment
Besides, to the best of my understanding, you are quite wrong. There are many known glitches that are theoretically possible in the OoT any% route that speedrunners don't use because they are way too difficult to do in real time, or would require too much setting up to be worth it. For a TAS they of course become possible (and don't require any setup that's aimed for human speedrunners). Ostensibly this would allow significant savings and shortcuts, compared to the current unassisted any% WR.
could you name a single one of these mysterious TAS only OOT any% tricks that you apparently know about that nobody who actually works on the game does? if there are some gamebreaking TAS-only tricks the community isn't aware of, we'd be GLAD to know.
sure, the tricks currently used can be done optimally and without setups, sure the movement can be optimal with perfect sidehops and such, and sure, you can go for tricks that are too hard for RTA to be worth trying (double mido skip). but we already know what these are going to be, and they have already been done in old TASes.
if 'the best of your understanding' knows exactly how great an optimal OOT TAS would be, i invite you to start up dolphin and get cracking - we all want it!
TASing has always been about overcoming human limitations, and show what it would be like if a perfect superhuman were to play the game to its absolute perfection. And Ocarina of Time any% would be the absolutely perfect place for this.
When did this change?
who said it has changed?
you're looking at a TAS that has overcome not only the human limitations of play, but the limitations of everyday logical thought and planning, and more importantly, the limitations of one's creativity in deciding what's possible.
and yet you'd rather chastise a community for deciding to spend their time on more interesting things than something which they already essentially understand?
for the record, a mostly optimal current-route TAS does exits for OOT Any%, it was just made in bizhawk and thus its use of the GIM trick is an "emulator glitch" rather than a feature of the VC version. but it's the same.
I just wish we could finally have a proper any% TAS of OoT, using all the most modern routes and glitches. For some reason this seems to be the only game for which there exists TASes, just not an any% one (which usually is the default fastest-possible game completion).
Spikestuff wrote:
Second, and also include Majora's Mask in that. Since the TAS is allegedly/apparently/quite outdated and the other category isn't done.
for the record, both of these WERE in some level of production - i'm not sure if modern OOT Any% (using dolphin / wiiVC) ever got past planning stages or if it was actually a WIP, but i know that MM was nearing completion before the recent discovery of a new trick (equip swap / egg dupe) which necessitated a reroute and thus a remake, all those hours of work lost.
these two games are absurdly difficult and time consuming to TAS. i once seriously tried making a complex TAS before it became clear that, short of absenting myself from all responsibilities and working on it for eight hours a day, it would be impossible to complete within even a few years. and so when OOT would-be TASers consider having a go at any%, whose TAS route is at this point essentially the same as the RTA route, the prospect of such a time investment just to make what is essentially the old TAS plus some new tricks, which one could just watch the RTA WR for, doesn't seem too pressing. instead they devote themselves for the most part to discovery, science, expanding of the game's possibilities, as culminates in things like the ADND TAS.
consider how great scientists rarely write books on their work for a popular audience. they'd rather continue the critical work of their research than waste time making the public-consumption version. likewise for OOT: the best minds at work on this game would rather find new things and understand the game in new ways than make something which pretty much everyone already knows the content of. and often in OOT people tend to make LOTADs (low optimization tool-assisted demonstrations) to show these discoveries (which are already a large amount of work) rather than putting the life-commitment timesink effort into making a fully optimized TAS. you can find LOTADs for all sorts of OOT impossibilities: 100% in 3 pauses, reverse boss order, pretty much every ridiculously specific individual trick and technique we've discovered, and so forth.
this tas, all dungeons no doors, is an anomaly in OOT: at once a theoretical demonstration and a near-fully optimized speedrun. it is a thing of beauty, and i can't wait to see nor can i imagine what OOT achievement will surpass it years from now.
made an account because this tas is so important to me - disregard this if you are so inclined
to us in the OOT community, this TAS is one of the best accomplishments of our two decades of work and research, if not the single greatest achievement anyone in the game has accomplished so far. literally years of thought went into making this TAS possible, nevermind the countless hours of work the routers in the No Doors Collective put in to make it as efficient and elegant as possible, and the deft and precise TAS-play Taylor himself dedicated the past few months to. this movie is not just a wonderful piece of entertainment- no, it transcends entertainment. this is, in its own bizarre way, a testament to the human spirit, the power of collaboration, and the wonders of ingenuity. in a purely mechanical sense, the logical difficulty of figuring out All Dungeons No Doors merely as a theoretical puzzle was astronomical. its solution is a masterwork in manipulating functions, controlling data-structures, aligning different logical possibilities. you see the finished product, and don't see that the difficulty was not in just MAKING the superplay, it was in making it POSSIBLE; the concision of the movie as a unit and the description as a route belies the fact that for years a dedicated team of the most intelligent 'zelda scientists' were trying to find some way to make this wild, ridiculous dream a reality. the movie doesnt show the hundreds of crazy ideas that almost worked, that got SO close. it doesn't show you all the work that brought hope only to have it all be dashed and return to the drawing board.
the work done to make this TAS is not just an achievement in playing games, but an achievement in thinking itself. it is on the order of the great mathematical proofs, the deftest code-breaking, the most masterful engineering.
you have to understand what it was like for someone who was aware of this project to anticipate and finally see it realized. there are thousands of us- you can look at twitter and see all the discussion and anticipation leading up to this TAS, people skipping school and work to watch the reveal, with feelings of almost disappointment left in its wake knowing that perhaps no OOT video could ever live up to the transcendent genius of what was just watched, the inevitable let-down of the "morning after."
yes, to the uninitiated, this TAS might seem confusing, inscrutable, indecipherable - but so does string theory, wiles's proof of fermat's last theorem, picasso's masterworks, james joyce's Ulysses - great ideas are never simple enough for the layman to grasp on first glance. but to reject this TAS would be as foolish as the paris salon rejecting manet, whistler, and courbet - history will NOT be on your side. it would be the death knell of TASvideos, unable to let the TAS medium flourish to the creative heights it will, inevitably reach, and has reached in this work.
i would figure out some way to clone myself and vote for this tas more than once, if it were possible. but, as this tas demonstrates, the impossible has already been done at least once...
