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Thanks man. The physics of this game is complex but I figured out how to work with it over time :)
I'll finish the level. The rest should be pretty easy since most of it is going to be more or less the same as the old run.
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Here is the first 2:18 of AIZ2. I finally got all the rings before the first checkpoint. It doesn't actually look that boring which is nice. Do you think this looks good?
gmv
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Sorry I took so long. I took a look at it. You didn't delay the rising platform or screw up the boss fight. Tbh I'm a little confused as to how you could lose that frame.
I'd suggest redoing that section. You'll have to anyways because I just saved 2 frames. The new time should be 1:11.47
new gmv
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Oh wow. I did not expect you to be this satisfied with my very first Amy run. If that's the case then by all means make the end look more entertaining. I only beat the boss to see what time I would get.
You probably either triggered the rising platform a frame late or screwed something up during the boss fight. Why don't you share the gmv so that I may have a look?
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WST wrote:
FAST HAS HELL!
By the way, I’ve redone the end to make it look more fun, and somehow lost 1 frame. I have no idea where, have to check it deeper, it is frustrating.
This is a sonic game after all :3
I figured one of you would improve the run (which I highly recommend doing) anyways so I didn't bother with the playaround. Also If I had to guess you lost a frame to the boss.
Evil_3D wrote:
very clever improvement, but something is wrong with your input: [CZ] [BY] [AX] is pressed at the same time, it's a minor thing but makes the input see a little sloppy
Yeah I'm well aware of this but I forgot why I never fixed it. It only happens on my desktop pc (which I'm currently unable to get to) which is why not all of my inputs gets effected by this.
btw I did check for improvements in the other level and I could not find any.
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Thanks for the helpful info and memory addresses. I definitely could not have figured this out on my own.
One thing I'll be doing for sure is have Tails spindash under the same platform he got slope glitch from. I do want to abuse this more but the object values are something I won't be able to manipulate with consistency so I'll just have to hope I get lucky.
The main reason I as asking is if Tails has the underwater physics glitch he can't get enough horizontal speed to do this.
Link to video
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Thanks for enlightening me. I kinda figured something was screwy with the code after found out that offscreen objects only makes Tails despawn under oddly specific conditions.
While I was experimenting with slope glitch in AIZ2 I noticed Tails sometimes got into his normal standing animation which by extension allowed him to spindash. Do you know why this happens? I can probably save time in the last waterfall section if I can figure out to manipulate this.
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Thanks for finding that timesave. I'll definitely be able to make some use out of it. It looks easier to optimize too ^.^
Also I really hate this part of the level now. It's going to take me ages to figure out which order I should grab these rings because of the moving platform.
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I think the main problem we're having with those 3 rings is that the tiles above are too thin for us to build up enough speed. I'll try to get them again when I get there in the run.
I only started tasing AIZ2 recently so I only got the first 46 seconds done. It's going pretty smoothly. Although I'm still trying to work out how I should do everything after the 110th ring. See for yourself.
gmv
Also you may have noticed at frame 11045 that I still made Tails do the zip jump with ~4,096 speed. I can't seem to do it with ~8,192 speed without Tails despawning no matter what I try. Were you able to do that yourself?
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Yeah that's the annoying part about working with 2nd player slope glitch. Tails can despawn for the most absurd reasons and it's hard to predict at time. I do know what a few of them are. This can be prevented by keeping Tails onscreen.
1) Making the object Tails got slope glitch from completely deload.
2) Interacting with a tunnel object.
3) The pink plants?
4) Sometimes some misc stuff like killing a badnik or touching a collapsing bridge.
I have tried to get those 3 rings but I just can't seem to get enough speed for it. It does look possible because one of the rings we got is in a few pixels lower than these 3. I'll try to get them again when I'm making the testrun, but maybe you should give it a shot because there's no gaurentee I'll be able to do it.
I don't think Tails' can grab those 2 rings under the switch at once. He can only stay under the death boundary for a frame and his hitbox isn't wide enough to grab both rings in one frame.
Evil_3D wrote:
You know I probably should've checked your comment instead of WST's for the gmv. I just looked at the first Angel Island video and then assumed there was no gmv lol
WST wrote:
That’s the truth about this game: every time you TAS it, you find some HUGE improvements. It is ridiculously crazy. Compared with many other games, this one looks complex almost like real world.
Or in this case find ways to get more rings. That's what I love about this game though. It's so dynamic and ring attacks are my favorite category in this. They're fun to watch and to tas. There's enough leeway in them to where I can enjoy tasing it.
EDIT: whoops sorry about the duplicate posts.[/quote]
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Oh wow that is fast. It's actually going to save some time over the old run which is even better. Nice find.
Link to video
I think I'm done figuring out how to get these rings. Still a bit iffy on the 2 right after the the 2nd tunnel as I still have to go around it twice by backtracking through the top route. I also managed to get an 8th ring. The ring total should now be 335 with 42 Knuckles rings leftover.
I did also see potential for grabbing these 3 but they appear to be a few pixels too deep. You can try to get them if you like.
Well, I can say one thing for sure. Optimizing this level is gonna suck. Don't be surprised if it takes me weeks to finish.
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I'm nearly finished figuring out how to get the new rings. I just need to figure out the best way to go about collecting the 2 in the second screenshot because of the 2nd tunnel.
Evil can you see if you can grab the ring to the left in in Knuckles' 2nd loop? I'm having trouble getting the right trajectory for it and I'm beginning to doubt it's even possible to collect it.
I was thinking a Tails POV encode should be made alongside the Sonic POV. I bet a lot of viewers would be interested in seeing that. Plus they'll get to see all of his deaths in AIZ2 XD
EDIT: Can I have the gmv with the new AIZ1 run?
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Thank you guys for your feedback. I guess we should go for the rings. I nearly forgot how fascinated our viewers got with ring attack tasses.
In that case let me spend more time with this. I need to see if I can grab more rings and find the fastest way to grab the 2 marked in Evil's 2nd screenshot. I might make an encode on them when I'm done.
This is gonna be kind of a pain to optimize though. We'll have to tas some of the slope glitch setups multiple times to make the best out of the platform cycles.
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I was able to get 5 of them. That's still going to make AIZ2 boring to watch. To make matters worse you can probably get the other 2 and possibly more with precise movement.
Well I guess it's settled then. We're going to skip those rings and just collect the 327 we got before. In that case I'll be waiting for you to highlight any possible improvements you see.
Don't worry I know they'll understand and I know they'll judge the whole movie and not just AIZ2.
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I can't really help but blame myself for this. If I didn't ask you to find a way to get more rings we could've gotten away with not collecting any of those. But now people are going to question us if we don't get them.
How about we put in an restriction where we can't collect any rings by clipping through the death boundary which is currently the only way to get those 7 extra rings. This'll allow us to maintain the AIZ2 v3 route with the 327 rings we collected before. I know putting an oddly specific restriction like that sounds unorthodox but I'd rather not make a run like that and have our viewers suffer through it.
Let's see if we can find a faster alternative though. The main one that comes to mind is making Sonic vertically loop the level from the top and have him collect Knuckles' rings from there.
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Yeah I was afraid of this. To be honest with you I actually don't want to go for any additional rings in the new run. It'll be boring to tas and collecting all those rings will more than likely kill the entertainment value of the level.
Let's see if there's a way we can make Sonic get slope glitch. While tasing FBZ2 I discovered that it's possible to vertically loop around a map if you carry vertical zipping speed to an upside-down slope.
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Wow 6 seconds that is impressive.
Sure I'll redo AIZ2 again if you highlight the improvements because I doubt I'll save much time if I tas it on my own.
Since you really want my inputs in the movie I could also redo SPZ2 try to get in that 2 second improvement with the light switch trick in.
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I seem to have a decent handle on resyncing the run so I'm willing to do it if you want to redo AIZ 1 and 2. You also haven't touched the new route for Act 2 so there might be some improvements there as well.
Once you're done let me add in the inputs. I don't know why, but it seems that every time you do it the run desyncs in the worst possible spot. I guess I'm just luckier with resyncs :p
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skumbag70 wrote:
So does this mean, now that Peach is used in 7-1, that Peach is no longer the sub-optimal character and Mario is now?
If you've watched the warpless run you'll know that he's always been sub-optimal except in 1 level.
Also I'm glad some people knew my comment was a joke. I actually did vote yes because this is an amazing improvement for a game like this.
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Thanks and speaking of finds, have another :)
Link to video
I am considering making a Knuckles ring attack testrun in FBZ2 if I can find a proper route using slope glitch.
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Super Sonic can't get out on his own due to him lacking a jump ability. Hyper Sonic can by dashing upwards. I believe Knuckles can also get enough height to get out by gliding on the boss.
Sorry for the confusion. It's just that I was too lazy to rerecord it at the time :p
I did also see potential for grabbing these 3 but they appear to be a few pixels too deep. You can try to get them if you like.
Well, I can say one thing for sure. Optimizing this level is gonna suck. Don't be surprised if it takes me weeks to finish.