Taking damage in several places such as where four Bone Pillars are stacked, Needles floating and perhaps the first Manticore (Boss).
Then we'll make one glitch-warpless movie that takes damage to save time, right? I think such a movie is what people want to watch and it will be accepted without trouble. You agree? Now what to do next?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Oh I am afraid that I can't agree on every one of them. In my opinion:
- for example, in the room after the White Dragon (perhaps the "quezlcoatl" you mean?) it took 64 frames for Soma to move from where he landed on the platform near the door to where he destroyed the Skeleton Knight in my run and the same thing happened in yours.
- there is a topic: the interval between two damages dealt to enemy with a weapon. Since the mininum interval with Baselard is 16 frames, there is no way to beat Creaking Skull faster with Baselard, unless you exploit a glitch which I'll talk about below.
- I think it's good to keep things not too complex while keeping the movie fast, and I think you made too many moves in your movie, too. Well I hate noises, but I have to keep back-dashing while making noises all the way....
Now I'll talk about a glitch: you know the damage interval with Baselard is 16 frames, but I once did shrink it to 8 frames while I was fighting Creaking Skull. Unfortunately I messed my savestates up later and now I can't repeat it. That's too bad. My thought is that this glitch can be caused by red souls. It may need time to research, though.
The problem is, I think, that I'll stick to a fast run no matter if any damages are taken to save time, while you want a fast and damageless one. If we could agree what we both aim for, then just let's start making it. I'll be busy in about two weeks. So we'd better decide what to do now quickly.
moozooh: I've tested many ways to make back dash faster, and finally I choose this way:
frame #1 - L
frame #2 - nothing
frame #3 - A
one of frame from #4 to #9 - B
all of frame from #11 to #16 - hold the moving direction
------------------------------------------------------------------
frame #17 - start the next cycle
It's hard to tell which one of our "optimal methods" is better.
EDIT: Well you win, moozooh. I think such a tiny difference can only be caused by the imprecise fractional algorithm in the game.
EDIT2: Oh I wrote the wrong frame when I began to hold the direction that I was moving to rather than when I actually did! Now I have corrected it....
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
So my "test" is to be a killer and I have to make it good and powerful enough.
Now I see that I am not the only one who is sometimes unlucky.
EDIT: Oh I said I would take a break now, but I got a new idea to improve the run just now and I would like to do a small test now....
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I'm surprised that this glitch seems new to you all. I thought it had been (ab)used for long before I found it and then told zggzdydp several months ago. It has been (ab)used to make Juste's wall-sinking possible in certain rooms and glitch the gameplay now since I told more people how to do it, though.
Well I'll explain how it works:
If Juste zips through an underwater area and warps immediately to other rooms, the game will think that he is still underwater because he hasn't ever got to the water surface to get out of water (but then why does the game think that he has ever been there? I have no idea).
Thus Juste will then float here and there until
A) He enters and then leaves the water area the normal way so that the game thinks it is time to weighten him.
B) He gets killed, and the game is over.
C) You beat the game, and the game ends.
D) You save the game then reset and load it, which makes the game forget that Juste has ever been underwater.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I consider my run just as a big test, which implies that I might make a full-optimized run or just leave this one there for someone's ease of reference. I don't think I will make this one the fastest. I will determine whether to make an even faster one after this test, or even one more test, since I think I've found several different ways that are kinds of micros but will influnce the macros heavily to improve the old runs but the final result of choosing one of them is so far to see that it will be hard for me to test them all by myself. Maybe Yrr and I can make two big tests then work together on the even fastser one. I'll consider that....;-)
EDIT: There may be other ways to avoid confliction, e.g. I can make my run a glitch-warping one so it will try to beat pirate_sepheroth's glitch-warping run instead. :-P
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
My WIP here. I wasn't able to get the knife, and I have been working on this for 2 weeks now....
You may notice that I did neither turn around to the left the very frame I got Grave Keeper Soul, nor open the pause menu during a back dash. I did test doing them "the normal way", and I found my way faster in the end, which surprised me.
EDIT: I did also test killing Creaking Skeleton when he was crawling back AND holding up his skull, which made the last two hits miss unless I jumped higher and then had my movie becoming longer.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I've already checked the RNG value in Memory Viewer, tried to affect it by every means I know and then just got more Zombie Soldier Soul and Rotten Meat since a week ago. None of the five Zombie Soldier drops Combat Knife unless I stand still before them for over 300 frames or get damaged by them then kill a certain one in the right frame. I really don't want to slow down to get something dropped, but that ideal seems quite unreachable. To be honest, I've got discouraged and decided to take a break.
EDIT1: I have even tried to enter to leave the room with White Dragon a few frames later with a different RNG value. But nothing seemed to change.
@Yrr: I would like to know your progress and watch the latest WIP if it's available. :-)
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Now I have been getting lots of Zombie Soldier Soul and Rotten Meat instead of Combat Knife for two weeks.... Is there a way to know what should I do in order to get a certain item dropped by enemy?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
You mean both of them? Ronginus is well, but I think to get and equip "STR+16 Soul" will cost longer time than the bonus STR it gives can help to save on the way to Lubicants.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Thanks for answering my questions (quickly it saves my time! ) :p
Now I don't need to get Skull Archer Soul since it takes more than 140 frames and then I can go on with the run. Still, there are many problems such as whether to get the "STR+16 Soul" (I forget the name) and/or Longinus(or Ronginus?) and so on.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I am also working on my own run. I think it will show you something interesting. : )
However there is a problem bothering me....How do you time a run of this game, by the length of the run or using the in-game timer? Imagine that you have got two speedruns now: one of them takes more time in the menu so that its full length is greater than the other one, while its in-game timer indicates a shorter elapsed time than the other in the end. Then which one is better?
Another question: Will a speedrun which takes damage to save time beat a damageless one if the difference between their length is small?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
To get the best ending you just need to have both JB's Bracelet and MK's Bracelet on when you beat Maxim in Castle B.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I think you'd better watch the vbm first.
zggzdydp said that he was just busy making it.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
I think you'd better watch the vbm first.
zggzdydp said that he was just busy making it.
EDIT: Sorry for my double-posting. But I can't figure out how to delete my post now.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Well, I think you've made a very fast TAS but, I wonder, why didn't you skip Adramalech? And likely that you could skip Camilla as well.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do