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If a 1/0 star run is possible, I think it should definitely obsolete the 16 star one, as this is the ultimate demonstration of sequence breaking. Currently the Reverse BA OoT run in the making skips a larger percentage of OoT than the 16 star run does for SM 64, but if a 1/0 star run comes along then that will skip the largest percentage of all.
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I'll test it out, will edit post later.
edit: hmm I can't seem to find an invisible ceiling anywhere. BLJing near the ledge just brings me on top of the platform.
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Lex wrote:
laughing_gas wrote:
This game is impossible to hex edit. Any attempts to do so will result in a desynch, whether it be in the next level or 50 levels later.
Why is that? What happens, exactly, if that's attempted?
spezzafer wrote:
oh dear god this game is agonizingly random
from the position of the enemies to their color to the graphical patterns of the flowers on the ground to the color the platforms and so much more even implementing a little hex editing will not guarantee full synchronization for more than a single level (I have never successfully hexed more than one entire level before)
in fact, back when I had just finished world 3, at the end of 3-7 I had to hex-fix synchronize the timing of the fish with a jump (this was unnoticed until AFTER I completed 3-8) and it miraculously worked and played back perfectly all the way through 3-8, until the entrance to 4-1, where the A button was pressed a frame too early on the world map...all with the exact same frame count as the unedited version
so you see, timing is not the only factor of randomness in YI
..... And that's why our beloved spez isn't around anymore. This game killed him :/
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Thanks for clearing that up. I think you should submit this as a placeholder, like the first AlttP glitched run, then hopefully someone else will optimize it later, also like the AlttP glitched run.
Lex wrote:
If you really wanted to, you could redo just the beginning and edit in the input, right? Or would that mess up the random number generator, causing the rest of the movie to desynchronize in this case?
This game is impossible to hex edit. Any attempts to do so will result in a desynch, whether it be in the next level or 50 levels later.
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Wow, this beats all my expectations. Why don't you submit this? There's still some minor timesavers left out.
edit: btw, what are the conditions required for the 6-8 warp? Is it just losing baby mario or is it also beating the intro level and collecting a certain number of red coins?
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comicalflop wrote:
Well, then theoretically we can go directly from 1-1 to 6-8, right?
Perhaps, but the chance is very slim. So far I've only gotten to the first 5 worlds from the 1st world though, I think 5-8 might be the closest we can achieve. As spezzafer said, everything in this game determines randomness.
The good news is that it doesn't seem to be an emulation bug. v10 and 1.51 give the same results as long as you keep the input the same. Some things to take note of are:
- how many eggs do you pick up?
- on which enemy do you use the eggs on?
- how many eggs you finish the level with?
- do you get hit and lose baby mario at any point in the level?
- what is your score at the end of the level?
- how many enemies you kill?
All of them appear to affect the warp in some way, and sometimes you need to complete a level and go back to it in order to access a particular warp.
What this means is that just racing through a level as fast as possible might result in an undesirable warp in the next level. We must find the minimum conditions in each level to create the desired warp, then find that fastest route to fulfill those conditions.
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I'm not quite sure of it myself ... it seems that every time the warp glitch is performed the RAM values get scrambled, and sometimes this scrambling leads to color changes and other weird stuff. I can't reproduce that glitch from scratch though, since I came upon it purely by luck.
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No, that never happened on my comp before.
EDIT: Gah, this thing is annoying. It seems like the # of eggs you pick up, the # of eggs you use, and the # of eggs you finish the level with all combine to determine where the next level will warp you to. This game is getting close to being King's Bounty.
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Deign wrote:
When I try running SMW2 on 1.51 the background has a tendancy to cover up the foreground on certain levels. 1-4, 1-7, 5-1 are best examples. Is that my computer or is that 1.51?
Can you provide some screenshots?
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Revised route:
Start the game from fresh, finish 1-1, go back to 1-1 and warp to 1-4, finish 1-4, go back to 1-2 and warp to 5-8, then continue as normal. This allows us to skip the long autoscrolling level (1-5) in the first world, as well as 1-6, 1-7, and 1-8, more than enough to compensate for the long 5-8.
Tested on snes9x 1.51. I'ved noticed that 1.51 and v10 give slightly different results, which is troubling, considering the recent fiasco with VBA's echo ram.
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Strange, after I do warps and then complete the level after the warp, sometimes the game freezes, and sometimes it doesn't. I think whether it freezes or not affects the future warps in some way.
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A Runnelid wrote:
Edit: What about 1-2; 4-6; 5-8; 6-8?
Would that work? 5-8 is a rather long level, perhaps, but 5 levels out of the "standard" 48 would sure be something, if it does work.
Andreas
Do you mean 1-2 to 4-6 and then 4-7 to 5-8? When you do the warp from 1-2 to 4-6 it just dumps you in the level and not in the level select screen, which is where the warping has to occur.
Deign wrote:
You would be mistaken to think either of these =)
I won't elaborate just yet
What, is there a way to warp to 6-8 directly?
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Y0SH1 wrote:
Everybody... I found a way how to warp through levels. Press left+right in the world map on certain levels (It may take a few tries), and you can access levels that aren't even unlocked. I haven't tested this with all the levels yet, but I tried with World 1-2, and it warped me to World 4-6. It messes up when you beat the level, though, but when you reset the game, it'll fix, and you'll be able to play World 4-7 and continue.
I don't know what you're talking about ... I tried it on 1-2 and all it did was scroll me down to 1-8. I tried it several times at different frames, all with the same result. I'm using Snes9x 1.51 if that makes any difference.
EDIT: okay that was because I used a file where all the levels were already completed. I started a new file, worked my way up to 1-2, and the glitch does indeed work, at least on Snes9x 1.51. Great find, Y0SH1.
EDIT2: here's a vid of the trick
http://download.yousendit.com/3E86B6474DE1CA32
EDIT3: okay did some more testing and it looks like warping works on all levels. Most of them are useless, but 1-1 takes you to 1-E and 2-1 takes you to 6-1. Will try to make a comprehensive list soon.
EDIT4: here's a list of warps
1-1 -> 1-E
1-2 -> 4-6 or 2-8
1-3 -> 1-1
1-4 -> 2-8
1-5 -> 1-1
1-6 -> 2-8
1-7 -> 2-8
1-8 -> 2-8
2-1 -> 6-1
2-2 -> 3-8 or deloaded level
2-3 -> 3-8
2-4 doesn't seem to work
2-5 -> 2-1
2-6 -> 3-8
2-7 -> 3-8
2-8 -> 3-8
3-1 -> deloaded level
3-2 -> 4-8 or deloaded level
3-3 -> 4-8 or 3-1
3-4 doesn't seem to work
3-5 -> 3-1
3-6 -> 4-8
3-7 -> 4-8
3-8 -> 4-8
4-1 -> 5-8 or 6-4
4-2 -> deloaded level
4-3 -> 4-1
4-4 -> 5-8
4-5 -> 4-1
4-6 -> 5-8
4-7 -> 5-8
4-8 -> 5-8
5-1 -> deloaded level
5-2 -> deloaded level
5-3 -> 5-1
5-4 doesn't seem to work
5-5 -> 5-1
5-6 -> 6-8
5-7 doesn't seem to work
5-8 -> 6-8
6-1 -> deloaded level
6-2 -> what appears to be a fortress but with a different colored yoshi
6-3 -> 6-1
6-4 doesn't seem to work
6-5 -> 6-1
6-6 -> deloaded level
6-7 doesn't seem to work
6-8 -> deloaded level
However this only applies if you progress through the levels one-by-one. If you used the warp at an earlier point, it changes some ram values and the later level warps don't seem to work. Right now I think the fastest method is to play up to 2-1 and then warp to 6-1 and then continue normally from there. 2-2 -> 3-8 then 4-1 -> 6-4 is also worth testing so see if it works, and if so, if it is faster.
EDIT5: ok ignore that list. We now know the warp is determined by the number of coins, not by the level.
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I played this game and world party a lot around 6 years ago, and I must say that vid is quite impressive. Are these tasing tools in the form of a mod or a patch to the game?
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