So, apologies for the pretty big bump, but I'm close to the speedrunning community for this game, and... a lot has happened since then.
People mostly run the PC version, as that one has no loading times and runs at 60 frames. (And also has a few tricks that don't work on PS1, as far as I can tell)
I was curious about how TASing the PS1 version, with most of the new (possible) strats, would be like, and so I did a few (probably) unoptimized attempts mostly as a blueprint,
with this being the latest one (NTSC version):
Link to video
And not only this is merely a run with loading times removed, but also segmented, so not one continuous TAS from start to finish
that said, I do have the BizHawk TAStudio project file for most of the run (some levels improved individually in separate branches)
And I just don't know how I could stitch together all of the branches, when a lot of desyncs are prone to happen, but
if anyone is ever interested in taking a look, perhaps optimizing stuff even further, and syncing together all individual level parts I have the files (one main .tasproj file and additional files for levels 1-3 which were from before I knew how the branch system in TAStudio worked):
https://files.catbox.moe/xebqv1.7z
As well as a few resources from the speedrun community that could help with very minor movement optimizations (one runner and friend is even working on a possible TAS tool for the PC version):
Now, the most recent "game breaking" tricks discovered this year, are some brand of "Infinite Jump".
Normally, Ralph (the playable character, who is not Coyote, a common misconception) can perform a double jump.
By having an item on hand, double jumping, then using the quick inventory (L1) to put away the item in mid air, before Ralph starts falling, there is a brief moment where you can initiate another double jump, thus allowing you to triple and even quadruple jump.
Additionally, to continue jumping ad-infinitum, the full inventory menu (with the map display) can be used (Select) again in the middle of a jump, before falling, then you equip an item, and your jumps will reset again for a brief moment, you can then perform another quadruple jump, open the map inventory menu again, and continue doing so as much as necessary. (This can sometimes cause the game to crash if the item hasn't been fully put away)
Another jump, discovered first, before the previous ones I've mentioned actually, involves equipping and unequipping an item from the quick inventory as you jump into a particularly slanted/angled wall, still not sure myself of the specifics, but it has been dubbed "Goat Climb/Jump" and while it's not used much now because of the discovery of the newer jump strats, it still has a few uses.
Finally, for reference, here's the world record run for the game on PC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vFLWGT6ZmI
So you can see a couple tricks that are different, some because (at least to my knowledge, and a lot of testing) they simply won't work on PS1.
Misc notes:
On NTSC, the tutorial level is optional (On PAL and every version on PC it is required to play it before accessing the hub area)
On PAL, Level 5 has a slightly different layout which allows for a much faster completion
Both NTSC and PAL PS1 has an exclusive clipping glitch on Level 4 - recently it has been kinda replicated on PC but in a slower way
Several parts of level geometry that you usually never go to (usually only there for visuals) on PC have collision, and on PS1 have no collision
The fence surrounding the area where Sam Sheepdog is in Level 12 has collision that extends much higher vertically than on PC
Yosemite Sam's movements on Level 13 are likely the only meaningful RNG thing in the game
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
As stated by natt, these are following very random set of tests.
When accounting for the full list like Mesen.
BizHawk is within the 90% range with those tests (last updated 18th June 2017).
(Also puNES is around 80% since you did show it off in your little video there.)
Also 2 things.
What version of Hawk?
Did you check QuickNES core? (Or are you accidentally using QuickNES.)
latest version, QuickNES was not checked. QuickNES properly plays the sound
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
First off - how is it not a criticism of your run? Do you think hand-waving it as "it's not criticism" will suddently make it not true?
if it is criticism then it's definitely not constructive and is still vague.
xy2_ wrote:
To further my point, I looked at your TAS, and it's indeed true; the dialogue skipping is shoddy, probably because you TAS using rewind. Indeed, first off you don't skip dialogue at the first possible frame, and sometimes you even forget to skip it properly; instead of A > (blank) > A you do A > (b) > (b) > A.
rewind is useful if used together with frame advance, to return to a previous frame.
it wasn't lack of testing, because i did try the earliest frame in a dialogue box, and the first frame that i could skip the dialogue was that one. I should look into that A > (blank) > A sequence, though
xy2_ wrote:
Your movement is bad; you don't cut corners, you pick up speed after talking with NPCs in an unoptimal way; there's even a point in the run where you bump into terrain for no reason and slowly have to pick up speed afterwards.
the movement was pretty rushed, indeed, if I try to tas this game again I'll improve it
xy2_ wrote:
And by the way, the splashes (with company name, etc) at the start of the game can be skipped, saving a bunch of frames.
I didn't know, and I actually tried. But from this I'd guess I didn't try enough which again, it's ok, I was lazy, I know, no need for reminding me that, I will improve and test things more.
xy2_ wrote:
So is it a far stretch, not to tell of your run that "the dialogue skipping is shoddy", but rather "it's an unoptimised pile of garbage"?
there's quite a difference between saying that, and actually giving constructive criticism, which you are actually doing right now, which by the way, thanks for it.
xy2_ wrote:
This is just straight up baiting. We are being agressive here because you attack us instead of improving yourself.
And I was just "attacking" because of previous aggressiveness, so it's an endless cycle. I didn't want to argue. If I did, then sorry. All I wanted was constructive criticism, and I got that now. I'm not a native english speaker so maybe some things I've said made no sense, even though I'm pretty confident about my english knowledge, so I apologize.
xy2_ wrote:
Are you popular in Dungeons & Dragon circles? Because this sounds like a lot of roleplaying. You defend yourself with words, rather than actions.I would have almost believed you if you didn't include the "rewind" part, which easily points out you are lying, because no TASer uses rewind.
I still don't get why can't rewind be used effectively in TASes. It is literally the same thing as save states, but easier. If you have to return to a previous part, like a level, then yes, use regular save states. But for small segments in one level, for example, I don't see why rewind can't be used.
xy2_ wrote:
Also, it takes time to make a lua script
I probably didn't make it clear that I used an existing lua script made for SMA2...
xy2_ wrote:
you casually crossed over my suggestion in my first post of using TAStudio
Well, to quote on what you just said:
"nobody cares how you TAS."
So if a run is good, who cares if I used rewind, save states, TAStudio or whatever? And I know my submitted TASes are below average, but I'm still improving. And the actual criticism that I got will help.
If TAStudio is easier, then probably I just like doing it the old-fashioned (but probably harder) way more. But I will give TAStudio a try.
--
So for short, I got the constructive feedback I wanted, tips on where to look for more people willing to give feedback as well, so this thread probably has no further use, unless you want to add more to it, or argue against my points (which I encourage! really, I'm not looking forward to being "the only person right" here, I just wanted to defend my points, which could still be wrong, so I'd actually like to know if they're good or not)
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
You conveniently ignored the points I made against which you had no defense. Your other points make no sense.
Good luck with the site. I'm done here.
the only other point you made was about the guy who voted without watching the movie, but still kept the vote after watching.
But that's not the only time - in other submission threads I've seen votes in that poll appear in just a few seconds after the thread was even posted.
Also is there really a need to sound aggressive like that?
xy2_ wrote:
If you react so badly to criticism, then it's probably a good idea to avoid TASing altogether.
I didn't react badly to criticism. I just thought the criticism I got was very vague and didn't explain anything I could do to improve.
And I don't think "the dialogue skipping is shoddy" counts as criticism.
One thing in this thread - P-Switch jump, I discovered it was indeed possible in SMA2, so I did it, along with 1/1 swimming.
xy2_ wrote:
f you feel more the need to defend your run, than to try to improve it, of course nobody will bother to help you further if you retract at the first reply of "here's why what you are doing is bad."
To me it looks like I'm getting more "it's bad, period" than "here's why it's bad".
But I will keep posting, hoping that I will get actual feedback sometime...
EDIT: Also just to note that I looked at Masterjun's criticism of my last SMA2 submission and already improved it, using a lua script, frame advance, rewind, save state, etc.
I just didn't make an encode of it yet
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Did you know that making an encode of your run on YouTube can increase your odds of getting feedback?
Did that already. In the WIP thread.
Masterjun wrote:
Did you know you can improve your TASing skills by comparing yourself to already existing runs? We have an existing GBA SMW run, did you try at least practicing on that?
the existing run is for Mario only (and it is the any% route). Luigi is slower, naturally, and has different physics.
Masterjun wrote:
You still have not a single reply in any game thread.
I don't because as I said before the forums are very inactive and messages from that thread are like, many years old.
I'll take xy2_'s reply
though I still believe rewinds could be used efficiently (but also with regular save states, of course)
anyways, thanks.
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Ok. A quick bump here (if thats even possible) just to say
I have been pointed towards the userfiles. Used it. That didn't quite work. I got little to no feedback. And honestly it seems like this forum is very inactive.
I'm trying to improve. But how can I improve further, if there's no feedback and the forum is dead most of the time?
Not to mention my last submission attempt (LEGO Island 2) had optimizations. There's no other way around the dialogue skipping - that was frame perfect. The movement, yes, could be improved, but still, there was no set standard for a LI2 run since that was the literal first run of it ever.
I've also seen many people who don't give a crap to the "Watch before voting!" advice in generated submission topics, as well as people who assume a run is bad simply because of the methods used (in my case, rewinds which are literally just save states but they don't add to the re-record count... until I used a manual rewind counter.) so there's that.
tl;dr: I can't improve my runs further if the forum is inactive and no one gives feedback so I don't know what to do now.
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
well you either go in the game thread and ask for feedback
or you go right here : http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10152
also you´ll get more feedback if you make a youtube encode, most of the time ppl are too lazy to watch the movie files.
well i took a quick look at it:
can´t you do p-jump switches in the first castle?
donut plains 4 also looks improvable
i noticed that you didn´t use 1/1 swimming in the lake stage
the p-switch jump glitch is fixed in the gba version afaik
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Hey there. So I wanted to know where in this forum I could ask for feedback on a movie, but I'm unsure about where I could do it... in the game thread, in the "newbie corner" or something else... but if this is the right place, then I'd like to know if this run is optimized enough (or if it isn't, what could be improved)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/39911649688522623
(BizHawk 1.13.0, SMA2.gba)
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
The route of Yoshi's Island 2 > Yoshi's Island 3 > Yoshi's Island 4 > #1 Iggy's Castle > Donut Plains 1 > Donut Plains 2 or Donut Secret 1 > Donut Ghost House > Donut Plains 3 > Donut Plains 4 > #2 Morton's Castle > Vanilla Dome 1 > Vanilla Secret 1 > Star World 2 > Star World 3 > Star World 4 > Front Door
This 15 exit is arbitrary and sub-optimal compared to the 11-exit run. The P-Balloon can still be used in a small only run. Maybe if we have Yoshi eat a Chuck to get a goal orb in order to get 90+ exits (including the ? block glitch in the Top Secret Area)
11-exit can't be done small only as the first star world level has obligatory turn block spinjumping. and not sure if goal orb glitch is possible in the gba port.
small only (aka low%) in speedruns also doesn't allow yoshi.
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
so, could anyone (who did watch the movie, i'm not very good with descriptions so i'd disregard the per-stage comments) point out the flaws in it?
i'm not claiming there is none, i just want to know so i can improve, of course
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Why are you submitting movies that you know are not perfect? We reject runs that have obvious flaws and SMW is one of the highly optimized games (even the GBA port).
I think it's a solid run, though it's one that still can be improved upon.
The submission form is not for movies that are known to have improvements.
Fog already told you on your last submission:
Please make use of the userfiles and get feedback from fellow TASers before submitting again.
Well I don't really have a "base" to work with since no one made a low% run as Luigi before. So I thought at least this run could be the starting point.
Also, this is irrelevant, but, if the submission form is not for movies that could be potentially improved then why does the default description form suggest writing about the things that could be improved in the "Other comments" section?
EDIT: only saw the edited message now
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
well, having a TAS be rejected because there was no rerecord count maybe is enough proof that "no one cares about rerecord count" is a false statement :v
then again, in that TAS I used the wrong bizhawk core for it. I remade it with the correct core, and it is more optimized, but it still doesn't have a rerecord count.
So... what now?
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
In the last 2 stable releases of BizHawk, rewinding while movie recording was now possible. However to my surprise, using the rewind button does not add to the re-record count.
Is it planned for it to be used in proper TASing without problems?
If it is, I'd suggest making the re-record count like this - a re-record using rewind would be one full press of the rewind button (instead of having every rewinded frame added as a single re-record)
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
And with only 1497 frames that aren't required of extra frames and definitely more.
This is a "TAS" that uses slowdown and nothing more if your rerecord count is "unknown".
Better luck next time.
For future reference start using the mGBA core not the joke of the VBA-Next one.
I forgot to switch to mGBA... about the rerecord count, I didn't notice. I was using BizHawk's rewind function, but I guess that doesn't add to the counter...
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
which file are you even inspecting in dependency walker? we'll never debug it this way. If you can't spot it immediately, it's a waste of time.
Try installing the installers individually:
https://github.com/TASVideos/BizHawk-Prereqs/tree/master/dist
the installers individually will just, again, ask to repair or uninstall, which I did countless times... also I was inspecting EmuHawk.exe.
some other information I have is, that my Windows 7 is probably not completely updated. Not so long ago I installed it from what probably was the very first Windows 7 release, and ever since, I've been installing the several updates that were needed, including Service Pack 1. Right now, I still have updates to install, though I already got that one update that adds the "Get Windows 10" icon to the taskbar. I don't know if BizHawk needs something from Windows Updates after that one, so, I'd like to know if BizHawk actually needs them...
And additionally, if BizHawk needs to use a specific driver that I possibly haven't installed yet, let me know...
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Those are all false alarms. Real errors give pop-up messages and question marks without an hour glass.
well some of these files are indeed missing...
what does the red-ish window icon mean?
EDIT: okay now I know what they are, and I get a few of them. and they point to these DLLs (and functions):
(> means that the dll is parented)
>userenv.dll (GetAppContainerRegistryLocation)
esent.dll (JetStopServiceInstance2)
ieframe.dll (#160, #141, #159)
>api-ms-win-core-threadpool-l1-1-0.dll (SetWaitableTimerEx)
>imm32.dll (ImmDisableLegacyIME)
>ole32.dll (CoIncrementMTAUsage, CoDecrementMTAUsage)
>ncrypt.dll (NCryptKeyDerivation)
mpflat.dll (MFCreateMFByteStreamOnStreamEx, MFRegisterLocalByteStreamHandler)
>dwmapi.dll (DwmRenderGesture, DwmTetherContact)
>dmfapi.dll (NdfCreateNetConnectionIncident)
probably only one or two out of these might be the one really causing the problem
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Try running the x64 version of the VS 2010 redistributable as downloaded from MS, since you're running x64 win7 (what you stated before about a problem with the x86 version makes it unclear if you did this already). If it asks repair/uninstall, do uninstall then reinstall (I dunno; I find sometimes that fully uninstalling/reinstalling works where repair does not)
i tried that with both x86 and x64 versions several times already...
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Try doing the Repair Option on both. I hate DLL hell...
tried that but it doesn't work...
Which IT didn't work? That doesn't help me understand what is going on. Does BizHawk run after the Repair of the C++ Installer?
repairing didn't work, bizhawk still doesn't run.
@zeromus i'll try that
EDIT: looking at Dependency Walker, I found this out:
these might be the things that are missing... i'm not sure what do they belong to, though
unless these have nothing to do with anything and im looking at the wrong place
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
If I downloaded these now and ran them, it would ask me if I wanted to repair or uninstall it, because I already have it.
Which is why it's odd that it's not working.
Try doing the Repair Option on both. I hate DLL hell...
tried that but it doesn't work...
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Well, those two last prerequisites aren't always installed automatically. You can download the failed one here: x86_32, x86_64.
I already reinstalled the redistributables several times, but I got nothing...
If I downloaded these now and ran them, it would ask me if I wanted to repair or uninstall it, because I already have it.
Which is why it's odd that it's not working.
Currently focused on PS1 games Looney Tunes: Sheep Raider / Sheep Dog 'N Wolf, and Toy Story 2: Buzz Lightyear to the Rescue.
Now, the most recent "game breaking" tricks discovered this year, are some brand of "Infinite Jump".
Normally, Ralph (the playable character, who is not Coyote, a common misconception) can perform a double jump.
By having an item on hand, double jumping, then using the quick inventory (L1) to put away the item in mid air, before Ralph starts falling, there is a brief moment where you can initiate another double jump, thus allowing you to triple and even quadruple jump.
Additionally, to continue jumping ad-infinitum, the full inventory menu (with the map display) can be used (Select) again in the middle of a jump, before falling, then you equip an item, and your jumps will reset again for a brief moment, you can then perform another quadruple jump, open the map inventory menu again, and continue doing so as much as necessary. (This can sometimes cause the game to crash if the item hasn't been fully put away)
Another jump, discovered first, before the previous ones I've mentioned actually, involves equipping and unequipping an item from the quick inventory as you jump into a particularly slanted/angled wall, still not sure myself of the specifics, but it has been dubbed "Goat Climb/Jump" and while it's not used much now because of the discovery of the newer jump strats, it still has a few uses.
Finally, for reference, here's the world record run for the game on PC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vFLWGT6ZmI
So you can see a couple tricks that are different, some because (at least to my knowledge, and a lot of testing) they simply won't work on PS1.
Misc notes:
these might be the things that are missing... i'm not sure what do they belong to, though
unless these have nothing to do with anything and im looking at the wrong place