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I would do an official release, but they're a lot harder (and probably impossible) to complete this task with. For example, Sonic has to pick up seven rings in Marble 2, and five in Scrap Brain 1, which Knuckles can skip entirely.
I was also playing around with Sonic 2 and Knuckles but Casino Night 2 (not to mention Metropolis) put paid to that.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles probably isn't even worth a look, just because the levels are so big and there's rings everywhere. I couldn't pass Hydrocity 1 when I tried.
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nitsuja wrote:
upthorn wrote:
Are you going to incorporate either of these tricks into your run?
Probably, but not immediately. See my edited post at the end of page 2. There's a chance I'll get it done in a few days though, if it turns out to be easier than I think it will. (Does anyone know of any other possible improvements?)
One thing occured to me.
In Hidden Palace, with Super Sonic it's possible to just stand on Knuckles and he'll take eight hits before he even gets off the ground.
Would something similar be possible by abusing Sonic/Tails' invincibility time after a hit?
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Time to bring this back up.
If I were able to complete Sonic 1, using the Knuckles hack, without collecting a single ring, would people watch it?
Here's my run through GHZ.
For the curious, there's only one level I can't get past without collecting a ring - Labyrinth 2 has a switch covered by a ten-ring box, and I can't find any way past the door it opens without said switch. If anyone can help in this regard, that'd really help.
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nitsuja wrote:
First, standing on an ice block with Sonic while Tails hits it puts Sonic into this strange mode where he can walk on air and doesn't interact with slopes properly ... and I've seen the same thing happen in a couple of less-useful places in Sonic 2).
Can you give me a few locations? I'm trying a challenge on Sonic 2 with Knuckles to complete the game with no rings. As far as I'm concerned for now it's impossible, there are four levels I know I can't get past and another two that are pretty doubtful.
nitsuja wrote:
Also, it doesn't seem like your description of how to do it is very accurate if I found what you meant (rather than running at a high speed, it required coming to a complete stop and moving slightly left on the sinking platform).
Have you got an input recording of this? I'm interested to see how you've done it - I recall just holding right the whole time and being zipped left to land on the checkpoint platform.
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Only one thing I didn't see, which I was hoping for: In Lava Reef 1 it's possible to, the first time you appear "outside", near where the lava is, fall into the floor with enough speed and emerge near the fire shield and 10 rings below.
Other than that, let's move on to what I actually think of this run.
Partly it's unfair for me to critique this as not only did I find some of the tricks, but I'd seen many of the others before. (I found MG2, nitsuja credited me as "yse" - which is my handle on TSC these days). So it isn't quite as impressive to me as it should be to most people.
This run is the very epitome of why TAS and speedruns are separate arts. Normally you can swipe a few strategies from the TAS to use in a speedrun - but you've blown that right out of the water :D
Almost every single level has a new strategy in it! LB2 is the only one that comes to mind that doesn't change... Teamwork between Sonic and Tails was incredible. As with any self-respecting Sonic run, the speed was remarkable.
The single best TAS ever. Period. (I was going to say the best exhibition of speedrunning, legitimate or TAS, but that could easily spark a debate.)
*goes back to recovering*
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I was alerted to the situation here by Upthorn.
Bisqwit: Exactly what is occuring here? My guess would be that Start is being hit a frame early for whatever reason?
I haven't had that problem. That's rather unusual.
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There's a couple of instances where you can. Marble Garden 2 is of course well known, but lesser known is that you can do the reverse (Knuckles into Sonic's route).
Actually, a Knuckles TAS would be pretty fun to watch. I did a bit of a test run on Launch Base 2 a while ago if anyone wants to see it.
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Who the hell voted no?
nitsuja wrote:
mike89 wrote:
I remember seeing a couple of things that made me think perhaps a few frames could be saved here or there, but it's so minimal and I'm sure you thought it through anyway.
Maybe, can you mention any examples?
Only one that occurs to me now having watched it again - just before the second high speed tube you used an upward tag action instead of... something else. It just didn't look fast, it may well have been, I dunno. I suppose with the pace the rest of the run was setting that came as a bit of a surprise.
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I watched it and immediately thought once it hit Spring Yard 3: "JXQ v2.0". That, of course, is not a bad thing, as JXQ's run is spectacular. Basically my vote focuses on the first eight acts, which I thought were done pretty well. I'm not fond of the choice to stop to save real time, but each to their own.
Voting yes.
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Absolutely outstanding. This one's a no-brainer.
I remember seeing a couple of things that made me think perhaps a few frames could be saved here or there, but it's so minimal and I'm sure you thought it through anyway.
On a side note, I can't play the Nonaggression video, and neither can anyone I've asked, on any version of VBA. I don't know what it is but Sonic seems to appear on the screen in the wrong position...
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I can't see why the Mumbo tokens are being included in 100%. After 75 they're totally useless, and if a viewer didn't know that there were exactly 115 (or whatever it is) then there'd be no way of verifying that the player actually got them all. Not to mention that'd mean taking the player to all ends of the map.
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It's a shame you only get Cream for the last level of the game...
Anyway, I think that the Knuckles+Sonic combination should not be underestimated. Probably test with it first, but his headbutt attack combined with a Sonic boost is pretty quick.
However, I'd write Amy off pretty quickly.
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upthorn wrote:
Why all the wasted shots on Queen for a Day?
Only the ones that hit her brain hurt her, so why do you keep shooting even when you're below her?
I had my suspicions that something like this happened. Basically I was recording the final phase and I was standing fairly close on the left hand side in an attempt to get more hits quicker. After I didn't get very far after a few seconds, I played it out in real time and finished at 9:03. When I got to that time and nothing had happened, I figured out something was wrong, and I nailed it down to the position of the shot.
However, I would've thought that shots on the head when I couldn't hit the brain (such as when I run underneath the boss in the second phase) would have been at least somewhat useful...
I could do the last boss again and resubmit, but that probably won't happen for a while as I have exams on for another week.
EDIT: One more thing, I assume nobody's having desync problems? I encountered a few while recording and needless to say they pissed me off considerably.
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1. Heh, this is my first submission so I wasn't totally familiar with the formatting. It's fixed now.
2. I remember reading something about "unique and recognisable" names, and mike89 is certainly not unique, in my experience.
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Uploaded a new version up to somewhere in Cave Fear. (13/22 levels done!)
Progress will probably be slow for the next fortnight due to exams - I'll try to do as much as possible though.
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Not worth it. Stick to your conventional 100%. Which is basically all I said plus the three Cheato books, as far as I can see.
Warp Cauldrons are only necessary if they save time (read: the red ones when you go back to open CCW and enter your cheat codes).
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I did a speedrun of this recently and, after the TAS of the original was rejected, I wanted to see if I could do a better job.
I've done the first 16 levels so far, available here. (Also, stop playing the movie just before I hit start to end the third level if you want a laugh.)
I'm up to The Shadow Nose now - and I've played through a little bit of it to alert you to a glitch which I intend to fully exploit.
As of the end of Recycle or Die my time was 5:55:28.
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That's correct.
I would think planning for a 100% would be easier than for a any% anyway, as any% only skips six Jiggies and 90 notes.
As mentioned, the pumpkin is necessary anyway, and the others give more than six Jiggies between them anyway.
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xebra wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean to prove with your video.
I'm trying to prove that, if you're such a damn good Sonic 1 player, and I can get that close in a matter of minutes, 24 should be trivial to you. I see you don't want to try as that would involve you proving yourself wrong.
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Alright, here goes.
Legitimate 25s 6f run (NOTE: This movie plays with Gens+, and is not (and can not) be modified in the same way a GMV can.)
So that's eight frames off "perfection"... and it only took me ten minutes!
I'd say 24 is possible in real time.
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Well, upon further inspection, it does appear that there are only two frames of error, it seems I was misinformed on that count. My apologies.
I've now received word from Rolken that the times will be suspended until proof is provided.