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mohoc
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Here is a movie replacement with a fixed cycle count (no input change): User movie #638658089145926423
mohoc
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"unnecessary inputs" were actually referring to the extra 'z' presses during the final cutscene and the blank frames at the very end. But indeed there could be a discussion about exactly when the movie should end. In my view it should just be what is needed to make the last piece of credits/congratulations message appear. That's what I believe to be the consensus on TASVideos (see e.g. Post #531227 by eien86 in Thread #25573: #9202: Tegron's Linux Project Kat - Paper Lily Prologue in 07:56.55). But I did not see it anywhere in the movie rules or guidelines, so at the end of the day it is only my opinion.
mohoc
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Natetheman223 wrote:
long version to be used on publication, clicks through the ending sequence: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638666700550003230
I can confirm that this one syncs. However, in the final cutscene one textbox was not cleared as quickly as possible, and there were unnecessary inputs at the end. Here is a version which fixes both issues: User movie #638667544697225272. In later submissions, I would recommend using the Input Editor in libTAS to help clear textboxes as soon as possible.
mohoc
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This is my first experience with this game and I'm glad that I have watched the whole thing. Resource management looked both interesting and impressive, notably in the latter half of the movie. I especially enjoyed the life/energy trade-offs induced by the vampire form. Easy Yes vote!
mohoc
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Hi lexikiq. I was able to sync your movie on libTAS v1.4.3. To sync verify it, all I have to do now is determine the game version. Right now there are two versions with identical name, region and version number (see game page Mari0). Only their hashes differ. Do you know which version is correct and which file the hash refers to?
mohoc
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Mizumaririn wrote:
Thank for making a version of TAS of this game mode that I call complete, including the most updated strategies! And thanks for giving me credit for the strategy used in Goomba board.
Hi Mizumaririn, thank you for your past work! It was quite inspirationaal to have such a solid first half of the run available.
Mizumaririn wrote:
The biggest challenge to further improving this game mode would definitely be trying to reconstruct how a King Boo map is generated.
In my opinion the next step would be to understand more generally how every pseudo-random event is decided from the RNG value, whetever it's dice rolls, coin blocks, candy drops or board elements. Then a script could be created to anticipate which RNG value we should aim for and be able to plan ahead its manipulation. The fact that you found the RNG address and a candidate formula is already a big milestone! I plan to go back to this game at some point, though not anytime soon. In the meantime, I would be more than happy to follow potential advancements from the sidelines and occasionally help out!
mohoc
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Here are two possible corrections:
  • this first one: User movie #638653234548162807 which ends when player control effectively ends, and which is probably what the previous replacement was supposed to be,
  • this second one: User movie #638653234684537309 which leads to the final message in the credits ("By the way, [...] Thanks for playing!").
In the light of a recent similar case (see Post #531227 by eien86 in Thread #25573: #9202: Tegron's Linux Project Kat - Paper Lily Prologue in 07:56.55), I believe that the correct replacement would be this second reworked movie, since it leads to the last piece of congratulatory messages/credits. But I will leave the final say to nymx.
mohoc
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Casual encode: Link to video
mohoc
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I confirm that the updated movie syncs on 2.9.1.
mohoc
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I can confirm that it syncs on 2.10-rc1 and it desyncs on 2.9.1 (around frame 30400 during puzzle 110). By the way this also gets a Yes vote from me! I always enjoy when DS TASes take advantage of touch screen pattern recognition.
mohoc
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Tegron wrote:
Good morning, I am starting to re-encode for this problem, just want to ask one thing, at what point does the game desync in your case? Also, are you doing the same sync steps as it was in Project Kat and have clock_gettime() realtime set? Also, make sure you don't have another game running while you're coding, with me when minecraft was running it wouldn't play the imputs properly at random times
Hello Tegron, thank you for your responsiveness. For now the furthest syncing point we have reached is frame 32148 (8:55 in your encode), which is the first time that file "retrysave" is attempted to be loaded. Here is an example of the error messages given by the game in the terminal: https://imgur.com/dk2L9PZ (the other messages are the libTAS debug thread logs). A few additional notes:
  1. The syncing notes & steps of #9202: Tegron's Linux Project Kat - Paper Lily Prologue "true ending" in 07:56.55 were followed. clock_gettime() realtime was checked, the movie was started as paused and then carefully frame advanced for the first few hundred frames (especially at frames 2 and 33, so that the clock disappears at frame 34).
  2. Like with Project Kat Slow Motion had to be set at 12% (i.e 7.5 fps). Otherwise a desync could happen at any point in the movie.
  3. Unlike Project Kat this game has autosaves, which is another cause for desyncs. Some Runtime options were found to avoid desyncs from autosaves (https://imgur.com/XG95WWy) at the expense of a slower frame rate (around 4 fps).
  4. Last but not least and as I mentioned before, game loading from "retrysave" does not work properly. We tried to uncheck Prevent writing to disk but the problem remained.
In short, after some experiments we found a set of libTAS settings under which the movie syncs fine most of the time- though at a very slow frame rate. Unfortunately we have reached a dead end with game loading. So it would be very useful if you could check that the movie syncs for you again and, if it does, share your libTAS settings and any additional piece of information about the game setup (e.g. confirm whether the Prevent writing to disk has to be unchecked).
mohoc
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CoolKirby wrote:
Congrats on getting this optimized and submitted! It was a nice surprise to see your Userfile pop up on the front page; I didn't know you saw my comment back then and I'm glad to hear it helped you! I like the detailed comments too, they helped me appreciate the complex strategy and manipulation you did. Well done, and I look forward to your next project!
Thank you! Although my motivation is essentially intrinsic for this kind of project, it is always nice to get feedback and feel part of a community. For now I will reduce my TASing activity for one or two months, and then I hesitate between two projects. The first (and main) one is a Kuru Kuru Kururin "All levels, fastest IGT" TAS. In the early history of this game people were primarily IGT-optimizing it, so it would be a nice way to come full circle. I expect most Adventure levels to feature different strategies than in real-time TASes, so I'm curious how it will turn out. The second one is Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. Like Mario Party it is one of my childhood games, and I love doing no-reset runs of it once in a while. Making a TAS of it would be a good excuse to delve into advanced puyo tech (like Hellfire and other patterns) and try to be creative with it.
CoolKirby wrote:
Nice to hear about your real-world experience with this game too. This wasn't my first Mario Party or my favorite, but it was the first I bought myself, and is one my family and I tend to come back to play again. They are casual gamers so for them the Wii never became obsolete; it still runs, so as long as they have their infinitely replayable games like this, Just Dance and N64 VC Paper Mario, they're happy, haha.
Regarding the Wii I share the sentiment! I feel blessed to have spent my childhood in that era of Nintendo. VC was especially great. Its game library size is yet to be replicated. It was how I played both Super Mario 64 and N64 Paper Mario for the first time. If these games were not as popular as they are, I would have probably considered to TAS them at some point for sure.
mohoc
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qqwref wrote:
Great job! Not surprised this game is bottable, but it's very cool to see the results. I like this kind of run a lot more than the out-of-bounds any% stuff.
Thank you, it means a lot! I remember watching your Best Ending record back in 2017 when I discovered this game and started to speedrun it. I know you were one of the pioneers when it came to TASing this game, so I'm happy to finish the job and materialize all this past effort!
mohoc
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MUGG wrote:
Nice run! I have one question. The reset at 12:15 is a hard-reset. Can the game not soft-reset?
Thank you! I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you can soft reset this game, at least not with the standard A+B+Start+Select button combination that other GBA games use. What I do know is that pressing these buttons while booting up the game gives you the option to clear all save data.
mohoc
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Hey there, it has been a while. I am happy to report that I am back to TASing this game with the 100% category this time. I just finished a revision of the "All make up, no damage" run uploaded by Matt Shpecar back in 2015. User movie #638567371142506129 Encode: Link to video This can be considered a halfway point through the making of the 100% TAS. Except Last Land the rest of the levels should be less difficult to optimize.
mohoc
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I would love to see this at ESA. There had been no significant breakthrough in this game for years, plus this run would have very little overlapping with what will be shown in the scheduled Glitchless Any% race.
mohoc
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This is indeed not Any% strictly speaking. I suppose that you were referring to the 2014 "game end glitch" movie by Masterjun, which manipulated the game state sequence in order to trigger the credits in under a minute. It is worth noting that while you reach the credits, you don't get to reach the "Game Complete" screen. Now this submission is about to obsolete Scepheo's run in 8:45.87. The same glitches were used in both runs (telejumping, Space Station 1 skip, an Intermission skip using the Violet cutscene skip), the main difference being the newly discovered Gravitron OOB in Masterjun's submission, which skips one of the main levels (The Laboratory in his run) and the Final level. Scepheos' run has had a legitimate place in the site and I believe that Masterjun's run has a legitimate place as well, since there are a lot of glitches - telejumping, the Violet cutscene skip, and now the Gravitron OOB - that you don't get to see either in the "game end glitch" run or the "20 trinkets, No Death Mode" run. A proper naming of this category could be discussed. It is worth mentioning that in order to perform the game end glitch, you have press the Escape key to go back to the main menu and then reload your save. And it has been the only useful speedrunning trick that required the use of the Escape key. So "No Escape key", "No Save & Quit" or "No Credits Warp" are a few possibilities off the top of my head. About the run itself, I have two remarks. First, as discussed in the VVVVVV speedrunning discord server, at the very beginning it could actually be faster to go to the Space Station 2 teleporter first instead of going to the Warp Zone teleporter first by a few frames. Second, and maybe more importantly, you can skip doing the Gravitron with a Save & Quit as soon as you enter the Gravitron room and then reload your save. So whether the Gravitron should be done or not is a legitimate concern. The main debating point would certainly be the entertainment value of doing the Gravitron in this run. As a side note, this current submission corresponds to what has been called "Any%" in the RTA community of the game. Since we require to speedrun on the latest version in most categories (v2.2, where the game end glitch is no more possible) and since all runs are single-segmented (forbidding save & quits), it made sense for us to call it Any% and do the Gravitron in the run. (Oh and if you are a former runner/viewer of the game, we have renamed several categories due to the discovery of the Gravitron OOB about a week ago. So what used to be called "Any%" for years is now "Credits Warp", which makes more sense tbh.)
mohoc
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Hey, I know this game. Doing Gravitron in Any% was inconceivable just a week ago. Shoutouts to the VVVVVV speedrunning community for making the inconceivable happen. Yes vote.
mohoc
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Hey, E-Sh4rk and I submitted a new Any% TAS. We were unsure whether to include the Training levels or not, so we submitted both and will let the community decide which one to keep. - Any% in 5:35.14 - Any% With Training in 6:19.76
mohoc
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mohoc
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Well, I found an 8.15s improvement today, exclusively from better menuing... (Only the first minute has been changed). Normally, when you complete a level on the Adventure path, Kururin goes to the next level slowly. However if you select "No" when asked for Training then the path from Training 1 to Grasslands 1 is already uncovered, thus no slow animation after completing Training 1-4. I completed Grasslands 1 first in order to skip the slow animation after Training 5 as well and thus maximize the time save from this trick. I believe there could be some discussion about this "improvement" though, as it makes the beginning of the run weird-looking. I personally liked it, but I know that E-Sh4rk was not in favor of it. Basically there are several possible interpretations: - you could consider that in "any% w/ training" you have to select "Yes" when asked for Training, which would discard this "improvement" (you are stuck at Training 1 at the beginning, so no way to skip any animation) - you could consider it legitimate and you find it entertaining - you could consider it legitimate but you think that it makes the run less entertaining Again this is just about menuing, no gameplay has been affected.
mohoc
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I'm fine with both scenarios for Any%. Training levels with damage have been done, if people wanna keep it then sure. I have my own personal preference (no Training) and I'd give arguments if necessary, but my take is to let the community decide, not me.
mohoc
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Well, apart from the starting zone, damageless IGT and damageless real time are very similar, you can hit walls when in heart zones in both cases. So making the "100% damageless run" IGT would not add much, and would just systematically add a waiting time at the beginning of every level. I really see IGT as a nontrivial optimization problem that could deserve its own category and that should be separated from damageless. Casually most people would assume that the best IGT would be obtained with damageless since most RTA ILs were done damageless, but it is not always the case in TAS.
mohoc
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- I am fine with 1. Any% and 2. 100%, though I would rather see 100% as "All levels damageless, all collectibles (including birds)" - I don't like IGT for 100%/damageless levels, this would just add a waiting time at the beginning of every level. - If there is any IGT category, what would make the most sense to me is "All levels, fastest IGT". But this would include lots of OOB & wall clipping, as they are faster in many levels in spite of the 3s penalties. Fastest IGT would be a weird category because it would mix some wall clipping levels and some damageless levels. But that could help to mitigate the potential monotonic feeling in both Any% and 100%. Besides the strategies would actually be slightly different in most levels, as you would try to minimize the number of hits in wall clipping levels and wait in the starting zone for the best angle in general. - I find your 3. pretty arbitrary. I would rather use SRAM for "All levels, fastest IGT", just my opinion though.
mohoc
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Well, ignore my previous message about Master Grade, I got it all wrong. My apologies. Master Grade only requires you to beat the Master times in the 30 "main" Adventure mode levels and the 50 "main" Challenge levels. -No need to complete the levels damageless, -No need to do training, -No need to unlock and complete Last Land and the eleventh row in Challenge.