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Posted: 6/30/2008 3:19 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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The problem with low% is that, once you define the category by a quantifiable factor, you bind the obsoletion chain to this factor. In which case, hypothetically, a lower collection percent will take precedence over a higher collection percent. But on the other hand, the same situation can be said about any% as a category, since this run demolishes both published any% runs in length as it does to the low% in terms of collection percentage. Which is exactly why, as I discussed it way earlier with hero, Cpadolf, adelikat and others, this type of run, codenamed NBMB, should not interfere with other categories, thereby allowing the higher overall quality of content per game stay (instead of just 100% + NBMB). The problem with that is, since Cpadolf's in-game any% has been published, it introduces a somewhat problematic precedent of a category that is not-strictly-following the site's suggested goals (realtime over in-game time), yet mirrors a "proper" one and excels at entertainment at the same time. Which made it effectively an entertainment category, not completely dissimilar to playarounds (at least for the purpose of publishing). So back when it was published, it was suggested that a NBMB run will obsolete it later (check the submission thread), and 14% will be obsoleted by another 14% run (going for in-game time, since that allows a unique route, considerably increasing its entertainment value when compared to the other categories). But with the high rating of the current in-game any%, and with all this discussion, how much of a chance does the 14% category to stay, and the in-game any% be obsoleted? This is the question.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/30/2008 1:50 PM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
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mmbossman wrote:
Many, many other games have interesting things to show off, that their current runs don't show, but that doesn't mean they require an additional run to be published here.
Which has precisely nothing to do with your original qualm, cited: "Not only does no one care about it […], but it really doesn't show anything that a combination of the other 3 runs don't already have (or will have when they get updated)", which was the uneducated misconception I addressed in my previous post. The whole publishing category discourse (aka. bullshit) appeared already after (or because?) this run was submitted, partially thanks to the so far unanimous decision of not obsoleting the ingame any% — while what I said about 14% has taken place regardless of when, how, and for what purpose any of the runs are released or obsoleted. Hope you get my point. Also, while I'm on track, number of categories is by no means a way to appraise entertainment. As in, a run type doesn't magically lose its appeal after the category slots have been filled. So judging the entertainment value (and technical prowess exhibited in achieving it) is what should take precedence, not the "whether it fits the bill". This doesn't apply to you in particular.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/30/2008 1:33 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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You do realize that Aaron hasn't posted in more than half a year (and over 1.5 years in this particular thread), right? I think it's fair to assume he isn't going to finish this project. Somebody else will have to look at it.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/30/2008 9:18 AM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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Um, please stop. 14% run (especially the in-game speed route) actually has a good amount of nice tricks not shown, and not even having a chance to be shown, in any other run. The reason it hasn't been updated yet is that working on it is less interesting and gratifying than the any% and 100%, hence why they were updated way more often. However, I admit that I have unwillingly hoarded the category for myself by constantly keeping everyone think I've been working on my run, while most of the time it wasn't really so; obviously, I did test things every now and then, and went on with the test run past the public WIPs, but it was a few days' worth of work stretched over a year or so. NameSpoofer is also working on his own version of 14% at the moment. He's doing well, and I support him. So I ask you to stop saying things you don't know, or otherwise don't want to acknowledge.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/29/2008 10:57 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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THE ridiculous run has become 14 frames more ridiculous.
Colors a skeleton
Lol.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:58 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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MattyXB wrote:
- No predefined saves He has Saved.
The word predefined there is for a reason, and the reason is that the movie didn't start from a saved (in-game or otherwise) state. It saved during the course of the movie, which is by no means predefined.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/29/2008 7:07 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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mmbossman wrote:
I'm still in favor of obsoleting the low 14% movie. Not only does no one care about it (as evidenced by the fact that it hasn't been updated since the end of 2004)
:<
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/29/2008 11:24 AM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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Actually, when the next 14% is made, we can just add it to the description of this run, like we did earlier with some other TAS (or maybe there were several of them). That way no-one will be hurt, I believe.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/29/2008 9:36 AM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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Cpadolf wrote:
A new way to acquire bluesuit, very useless, and very pleasing.
Metroid Limit had a room that required you to acquire it the same way, didn't it? A giant speed block maze it was. So it isn't exactly useless, however its use is limited by a map designed around it.
Saturn wrote:
Mind telling us the true date you discovered this?
So that you could gloat over how much earlier you did it yourself? Hah. I won't lie, though, I presented it in the beginning of February, when hero and Cpadolf were working on their any% runs (I was too late with that, though).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/29/2008 12:00 AM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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Because apparently, the current 0-star run is way more popular than any of the previous 16-star runs except the first. However, it occurs to me that they've competed in the same category; the better analogy would be a 70-star run since it doesn't require passing through walls and all that.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:12 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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DrJones wrote:
Why not? Aren't "any% runs" just another way to call the fastest way to beat the game?
Because this run is what's commonly called "glitched", and letting it obsolete #7 & #16 highest rated movies out of the ~500 on the list would be just wrong.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:09 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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WTF :D
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 11:05 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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NameSpoofer wrote:
Taco did something different for pre-g-suit room. Didn't this room get ownt by Saturn's demonstration? Can be improved http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1631367653/WS.smv
That's known, I showed it to Cpadolf and hero some time ago. I did it slightly differently, though.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 10:41 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
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This should absolutely not obsolete an any% run. As for the boss fights in low%, I'll still make that 14% some day, with all its fights.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 10:36 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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How in the fuck is THAT possible?! Now that's a very important find. I'm absolutely positive it will save time in numerous other places, such as the gravsuit statue room.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:47 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Okay, a real question now: do you need to actually die in the spike room in order to make the warp work? Only loading it is required, which means you can reset the game immediately after it does so, saving another ~500 frames.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:14 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
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True, forgot about it. The pre-X-ray room is still the most amazing part, both ways.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/28/2008 7:10 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Well, I have nothing to say here. I certainly didn't expect the Tourian break-in you did here, and I didn't know you could manipulate Metroid drops with such ease using X-ray. As a whole, it is NBMB, true low% and true any% all at the same time without sacrificing one another. The only bad thing about it is that pre-X-ray room is pretty much the only groundbreaking part of the actual gameplay. Yes vote. As for the obsoletion, obsolete the 14% run.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:27 PM
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moozooh
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Chaosv1, next time don't apply 4:3 aspect ratio correction to Gameboy games.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/27/2008 4:13 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
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Desyncs at my work computer either. Haven't tried it with the ROM yet.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/26/2008 8:42 PM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
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Solon wrote:
I think the one behind off the room right behind Crocomire is only sealed with a Missile door, but not sure; I haven't played in a while.
Croc itself is sealed by a green door, so taking powerbombs without supermissiles is 100% not an option.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/26/2008 7:13 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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stickyman05 wrote:
Try running a defragment as well, it will help clear some space to make things faster...
Defragmentation doesn't actually change the amount of free space, it only optimizes the occupied space. Espyo, do you kill processes via the "processes" tab of the task manager?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/26/2008 6:31 PM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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Morphball → Missiles → Bombs → Super Missiles → Speed Booster (through heavy pause screen abuse) → Power Bombs → X-ray Scope → Tourian (7% items collected). Rather long, impossibly tedious both to make and to watch.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/25/2008 9:17 AM
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moozooh
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Joined: 8/4/2005
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Because we're no longer working on it. :) (Not as in "won't ever be again", but "not going to do it now".) Normally it would beat the game under ~11-13 ingame minutes with 10% or less items. That's if skipping all bosses/minibosses and abusing the pause exploit to bypass the energy problems. A realtime-oriented run would likely have to fight Kraid for Varia and use it to retrieve Speed Booster from Norfair to avoid picking up extra items, using crystal flashes and the exploit (though it is unknown as to how much time it saves).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 6/25/2008 7:56 AM
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moozooh
Experienced Forum User, Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
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1. That's not murder beam, but space/time beam. 2. If you are to skip bosses, you don't need any of the beams to do that whatsoever. And it can be done much faster as well.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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