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You can't skip the keys, you can clip up after the locks, but the screen transition isn't there.
I haven't looked into how these games are made, but apparently there is a common engine being used here. I actually discovered that clipping when I did Xanthiom. I see that it is being used fully here.
As for the screen transition...yeah, I completely get that. You can get lost into an area that doesn't exist and not be able to return.
Also, if you didn't know...I love these VHZC Atari games. I was excited to see this and I had to claim it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Slopes: Running on slopes, up or down, is slower than on flat ground or in the air. I didn't realize this until level 16, so on level 7, 11, and 13 some time is lost on the slopes.
How much effort would it be to go back and fix this, and what do you think the optimization improvement would look like? I assume that the "lag reduction" would be an issue thereafter. I ask this, because I don't want you to have to suffer an obsoletion, when we can fix this now.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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KusogeMan wrote:
needs some prince soundtrack to go with it lol
LOL. I had totally forgotten about the music he made for that first movie.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Spikestuff wrote:
Here comes, the boy.
Here comes the ACCEPTANCE! Go get it!!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
Doesn't stop the game from being all kinds of jank, though - especially it being one of the earliest instances of obviously cheating AI racers (for example, you never see THEM needing to stop for fuel or having THEIR engine blow out).
Exactly! That is why I thought I could never come in first on this game, but I still have doubts that a human could.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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This is a preliminary look at this run, but I'm already seeing optimization issues. Normally, I take my first pass to see what the submission is all about. During this time, I wondered why certain actions were taken....so I started to dig into the inputs. On the very first stage (not world), I cut 50 frames easily. On the 2nd stage, I continued to cut more from simple little movement changes. The biggest thing that got me into a deeper dive, was the first Boss fight. I haven't gotten there yet, but that will be when I make my decision.
Just note...I'm using your updated file that you recently posted.
Because of my findings, my predicted completion date of Friday will not happen. It will now be this weekend before I finish my review.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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dekutony wrote:
Hello. I've improved the TAS by nearly 1 second. Most of the improvement comes from World 1-3. 1 frame was saved in World 2-2 also.
User movie #638657849588463970
Can somebody please replace the input file from the submission with this one? Thanks in advance.
I will take care of this soon. Your TAS is next on my list. It will probably be before Friday.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I'm joining the crowd on this one....Yes vote!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Nate...since we have "sync" verification now...I'm judging this, based off of your video. There is only one thing that I would ask of you. Can you confirm that last scene really requires those inputs? If not, can you cut them back as far as you can a provide me with a replacement?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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I remember getting an error when I saved. Never checked to see if the notes were there. I just assumed.
I have posted the judgement statements at the normal place, if anybody is interested.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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FYI: I am looking at this run. I hope to have a judgement soon. There are some details that I'm trying to gather, but I haven't had the time to write the proper lua scripts to collect up on it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
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GJTASer2018 wrote:
Is there a maximum to the amount of money displayed, and if so what happens when you reach that amount?
I am not sure. I didn't check that because the value goes beyond the normal limits. When that happens, it goes a lot longer than I'm willing to TAS. When I programmed on it, a B.A.S.I.C. witten variable can go a long way.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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Jairo_Apa wrote:
I understand the comment, I will upload the second part of the speedrun soon
I've given about a 1/2 month on a response for this. Normally, a submission should be completed when it is first submitted. Because I'm not hearing back, once again, I'm canceling this submission.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Jairo_Apa wrote:
nymx wrote:
Jairo_Apa wrote:
I understand the comment, I will upload the second part of the speedrun soon
Are you still planning to upload the rest of this TAS?
Yes, I'm practicing for the second part of the TAS.
In that case, I would suggest "Canceling" your submission and resubmit when you are ready.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
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Hopper262 wrote:
That time save from minimizing inputs is really interesting. Even at full speed it was visible in the comparison video. Nice work!
Thanks. I would also add that it is a technique that I only perform with C64 games. With all other consoles that I've TASed, I've not seen it make a difference with them.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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eien86 wrote:
I'm confused by the role of the "Commisioner" car here. Is it like a ghost in pacman, chasing after you to kill you?
Yes. He is trying to stop me from fixing all the potholes.
But essentially...it is like the ghost.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2234)
Joined: 11/14/2014
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Jairo_Apa wrote:
I understand the comment, I will upload the second part of the speedrun soon
Are you still planning to upload the rest of this TAS?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Here is a comparison video of my first attempt and final version.
Link to video
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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FYI...I chose this type of media, because I am annoyed at "Cracked" or "Trainer Intro" modified disk images. I understand the reason why they exist, since piracy was something that Commodore tried to prevent in the 80's.
So here, a tape image was chosen because most of them are "pure" and a disk image wouldn't automatically obsolete a tape image (even though it would be faster). So the authenticity is maintained and the TAS keeps its focus on the game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Hey alexheights1. Can you do us a favor and check your movie file on your end? Just do a full sync and let us know if it works.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I'm not having any success syncing this movie. I've tried two versions and its not working. Are there any special settings, or something else that I need to know about? Maybe try updating your ROM name to something more descriptive?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Sand wrote:
There's a way to model "lights out" problems like this as linear algebra, with 0/1 matrices and vectors. You have a vector p that represents the current state of the board (in this case a 9-vector), a vector r that represents the desired end state of the board (another 9-vector), and a matrix A that represents which lights get flipped when you press each of the lights (a 9×9 matrix). Then the vector x that tells you which lights to press can be computed as x = (r − p)A−1. Here's a youtube video about it:
Solving the "Lights Out" Problem
And here's a good web page: The Mathematics of Lights Out.
The technique isn't exactly applicable to Match Blox, because of this restriction: "Only the orange squares may be changed. If you press the fire button while on a blue square, nothing happens." But it's pretty close. Jaap's Puzzle Page also has discussion of "lit-only games":
The lit-only game is solved in nearly the same manner as the normal game. Simply figure out whether any of the lit buttons need to be pressed, and then press them. If any unlit button needs to be pressed, you will need to delay pressing it until other button presses have lit it. Occasionally all buttons that remain in the solution are unlit, so then some lit button has to be pressed first to allow you to move on. Later that same button will have to be pressed again, since it wouldn't have been part of the solution if you hadn't been forced to press it the first time. This situation can usually be avoided.
What this means is that the order of presses is important (you have to make sure that each square is lit at the time to press it), and in some cases you may need to press a light that's not in the vector solution, then press it again later. The other aspect of the game that this doesn't capture is the time required for cursor movement.
Your bot is likely a more straightforward solution, given these additional complications. But just for interest, here's a way of doing the matrix computations using SageMath. You can run the program at https://sagecell.sagemath.org/. This is for the first batch of solutions (not the updated batch).
Language: python
# Each row shows which squares are affected by pressing the square that
# corresponds to the number of that row. For example, pressing square 1 flips
# squares 1, 2, 4, and 5 (first row of the matrix).
# https://archive.org/details/1986-11-computegazette/page/n57/mode/2up
# "Choosing one of the four corner squares (1, 3, 7, or 9) reverses the color of
# that square and the three adjacent squares. Choosing an edge square
# (2, 4, 6, or 8) reverses its color as well as the two adjoining corner
# squares. If you select the center square, its color is reversed and so are the
# colors of the four edge squares."
A = matrix(GF(2), [
[1,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,0],
[1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0],
[0,1,1,0,1,1,0,0,0],
[1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0],
[0,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,0],
[0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1],
[0,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,0],
[0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1],
[0,0,0,0,1,1,0,1,1],
])
Ainv = A.inverse()
# https://www.jaapsch.net/puzzles/lomath.htm#linalg
def solve(p, r):
return (p - r) * Ainv
# Target patterns, each square numbered in the natural way.
UNI_COLOR = vector(GF(2), [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0])
CROSS = vector(GF(2), [1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,1])
NO_CENTER = vector(GF(2), [0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0])
FOUR_CORNERS = vector(GF(2), [0,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,0])
FIVE_POINTS = vector(GF(2), [0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0])
for p, r, name in (
([1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,1], FIVE_POINTS, "5 POINTS"),
([0,0,1,0,0,0,1,1,0], FOUR_CORNERS, "4 CORNERS"),
([0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0], NO_CENTER, "NO CENTER"),
([1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1], UNI_COLOR, "UNI-COLOR"),
([1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,0], CROSS, "CROSS"),
):
p = vector(GF(2), p)
x = solve(p, r)
print(f"{name:9}", p, x, "->", [i+1 for (i, xi) in enumerate(x) if xi != 0])
The solutions match what your bot found, except that they may be out of order. The exception is CROSS, which is one of those cases where none of the square you need to press is lit, so you need to press some other square (5 in this case) and press it again later: [2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 5, 8].
Wow! I will not be at home for a few days, but I am going to look at this closely when I get back. I love math and want to study this for future uses. I'm glad that you confirmed my solutions. Thanks!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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CoolHandMike wrote:
nymx wrote:
Hopper262 wrote:
The article states the starting boards are randomly generated, with "over 500 possible initial configurations for each pattern." Is this true? If so, can RNG be manipulated to get a quicker-to-solve board? I glanced at the code but my C64 BASIC skills aren't good enough to follow the logic.
Well, you got me thinking all day. Came up with another plan and was able to find an RNG seed that cut 401 more frames. I'm going to continue seeing if I can find another one, but this program is written in B.A.S.I.C. and its much harder to do this kind of manipulation, as it is very slow.
Let me know when you need a file replacement.
Oh...I'm done. I already replaced it days ago.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
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Joined: 11/14/2014
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Hopper262 wrote:
The article states the starting boards are randomly generated, with "over 500 possible initial configurations for each pattern." Is this true? If so, can RNG be manipulated to get a quicker-to-solve board? I glanced at the code but my C64 BASIC skills aren't good enough to follow the logic.
Well, you got me thinking all day. Came up with another plan and was able to find an RNG seed that cut 401 more frames. I'm going to continue seeing if I can find another one, but this program is written in B.A.S.I.C. and its much harder to do this kind of manipulation, as it is very slow.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Expert player
(2234)
Joined: 11/14/2014
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Hopper262 wrote:
The article states the starting boards are randomly generated, with "over 500 possible initial configurations for each pattern." Is this true? If so, can RNG be manipulated to get a quicker-to-solve board? I glanced at the code but my C64 BASIC skills aren't good enough to follow the logic.
I tried a few variations and it always seems one pattern has a long solving solution. I can try more, but it will require getting a better rng seed.
This run had the best I could get so far, while having one with 7 moves.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
