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While I'm trying to construct the ROM for this, I thought to ask you about the "bump" that you do at time 0:49. Is there no way to jump and slip between those block and the slope?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Wow...played this game a lot on the Vic-20. I had actually tried to TAS this a few years ago, but I wasn't satisfied with it...so I waited until I could figure out something.
Seems like you found even more stuff than I did. Great job on the glitches and run.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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alexheights1 wrote:
nymx wrote:
I can’t confidently agree with alexheights1 that this run is not optimized.
I don't know how many different unique setups exist. Could be just 10,000. Could be a billion.
Fun stuff and definitely not easy to optimize as evidenced by 20 years of no submissions for this game.
NES Blades of Steel is even harder to TAS manually. I gave up on that one. Maybe somebody like Walgrey can do that. :)
I agree . I recognized the difficulty, right at the start of analyzing it.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Hey, a cool game! How did I miss it? Reminds me of Star Force.
Yes vote
Thanks. It really caught my eye, when I saw it in a demo for the youtube channel I ran across.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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andypanther wrote:
I admire your dedication to TAS all hockey games in existence.
Although he missed out on "Face-Off!" for the C64! LOL (He'll know what I'm talking about :P)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Any updates to this? Otherwise this is a shut and closed case. Feel free to cancel your submission if you are not getting anywhere.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I have heard from eien86 on this submission. Basically, here is the progression and his thinking on the situation.
1. My initial find of 24 frames came from discovering that one shot can kill two enemies at once.
2. He decides to go even further to try and replicate that finding and successfully does finds 126 more frames.
Because of this "double kill" strategy, the co-authorship has been suggested to be:
eien86
nymx
SelflessVanity
I'll leave this to a judge to confirm, even though I believe I should be last.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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SelflessVanity wrote:
I would like to work together on this.
Ok. Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Wow..on top of my findings, we see another 126 frames cut. Amazing, yet expected.
SelflessVanity? Would you mind responding to this? We seem to have 3 people involved now.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I have beaten your submission by 24 frames. This was just a quick run-through. I am certain more can be found.
As long as I'm confident in the final result, I am willing to work with you on co-authorship, but I want to give this more time. Please let me know your intensions.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/639134631780706921
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I've thought about the use of "Run/Stop" and I'm not so inclined to doing that. I would much rather have two submission, denoting each "Mode" played. My reasoning for this is that it makes the run "unclean". For example, when can we say is a good moment to break out of the code? Should I do it the frame after the last input was made to complete the round? or the moment the message comes up, stating the results of the round? For me, the game needs to run and give clear indication of what is going on. Basically, I believe that when code starts...it shouldn't be interrupted. With Mosaic, navigation is possible back to the menu, which seems a necessary part of keeping things congruent. With consoles, things can be quite different when the reset is used.
When i think about F-Zero...should I be trying to reset the game after I cross the finish line to start the next league? In that situation, I let the game run without interruption. With NES Metroid, resets are done to cut massive time for back-tracking. I may not have a good explanation, but it just doesn't feel right to do so in this case. Maybe I'm just OCD about it.
Honestly, this is the first time I've seen this problem. I would prefer two submissions; however, I don't like bloating the site with similar looking runs.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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jeff_town wrote:
Instead of finding 1 seed for both games, For the 3-player version you could hit run-stop, re-seed the RNG, and run again, e.g., type TI$="xxxxxx";RUN: followed by the enter key.
Waiting through the game animations is kinda irritating for TASing. You could modify the game to remove the tile movement animation. For instance, this gets rid of the "slide chosen tile into place" animation:
.. then once you find a seed, just resync with the unmodified version.
I notice there's an option to keep the computer's tiles hidden. This might speed up the game, but there's certainly an entertainment trade-off there.
That is an interesting thought. I never thought to break the game's code from running to do that again. Let me think about that.
Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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jeff_town wrote:
Assuming you can force the value of TI used in the program at line 70, it's not hard to show all the draws that will occur using a simple BASIC program...
10 R=RND(-RND(-60)):REM assume forced TI=60
20 FORR=1TO64:DK$=DK$+CHR$(R):NEXT
30 D=64
290 REM DEAL HANDS
310 FOR I=0TO40:GOSUB 1030:PRINTT;:NEXT
999 END
1010 REM DRAW NEXT TILE
1030 X=RND(1)*D+1:DK$=LEFT$(DK$,X-1)+MID$(DK$,X+1)+MID$(DK$,X,1)
1040 T=ASC(RIGHT$(DK$,1)):D=D-1:RETURN
Here I've forced the seed to 60 and you can see that the initial draws match what is printed by the program:
That said, evaluating a seed requires looking at what the CPU will do, not just having the move sequence available.
FWIW I think the watch location for the TI(ME) value is A0/A1/A2 (24 bits): https://www.pagetable.com/c64ref/c64mem/#TIME
Thanks. It has been a while, since I've actually wrote any C64/Vic20 code. I will remember this next time.
Oh, something that you might find interesting. With all the games I've TAS for the C64, here is a list of RNG alterations that I've run up against:
*Random Inputs: Most RNG can be controlled by hitting random keys or joystick directions; thus, affecting the values picked by the Kernal's (Commodore's spelling) instruction. (Almost all Machine Language games for the Gazette; however, many commerical games don't respond this way)
*Custom RNG: Most commerical games have their own method of RNG, which random inputs don't normally affect. It is more related to circumstances and calculations based on them.
*B.A.S.I.C. RNG: Every game, until Mosaic, was easily controlled by using RND(-###). Games written in BASIC, make use of the command to determine RNG. Using this method, I can set a seed with one command.
*TI Based RNG: This method is related more to when a request is made, making it act like other consoles that I've TASed. This was very common with games like Super Metroid, where shooting on a different frame would cause drops to be different. With Mosaic, it was done once...which was disappointing, because the 2nd mode would have been much easier to manage, by delaying frames on selecting the second part.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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jeff_town wrote:
There are two related BASIC variables, TI$ (string) and TI (number).
Normally, TI counts up approximately every 1/60 second ("1 jiffy") and TI$ shows the jiffy count as HHMMSS. (1/60 second nominal regardless of PAL/NTSC)
TI is not settable, but TI$ is. TI$ is in "HHMMSS" format. Setting TI$="000001" will give TI=60, then TI=61 a short time later, then TI=62, and so on.
Consider this BASIC program:
10 FOR I = 0 to 20
20 TI$="000001":X=RND(-RND(-TI))
30 PRINT RND(1),RND(1)
40 NEXT
It will usually produce the sequence starting with .395... .0380... but will occasionally produce .538... .377... -- I think this depends on how many times the jiffy counter increments between setting TI$ and evaluating TI in the X= expression. Changing it to TI$="000002" gives a different most common outcome, etc. Under TAS conditions, of course, the result should be predictable.
I think your attempted seeding method, printing RND(-3), is NOT directly controlling the random seed, it's just adding some particular delay to run the line of BASIC code which changes TI as a side-effect. Printing RND(-4) might give different results just because it takes more or less time to print the value(?) but I don't think you get access to a wide range of seeds that way.
OTOH, running TI$="######" should let you access to at least 86400 seeds. If you also consider delaying a variable number of frames between setting TI and the RUN command you could access 59 more seeds for each of those 86400 distinct TI$ values.
It's not impossible (but not guaranteed) that there is a shorter game among all possible seeds.
Helpful references: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/TIME$https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/TIME
Actually, because of "TI", you can push out the frame (which yeah, your method is better and you probably already know that) that I initiate that command. I had originally gone through about 100 to 150 frames of delay...before I realized that I got a decent result early on. Because the second mode of play had radically different layouts, I started to realize that the balance between the two modes was going to be hard to control. I finally realized that my earlier seed was one that I could accept. The use of that RND(-3) was an effort to use the two in combination to see if I can trick it, only to see that this effort was so much different than other games where I have controlled RNG. When i found my best result, It was a little too late for me to go back and try and sync that up...so a few frames were lost using that technique.
You are right, I didn't test all the seeds...because it would just take too long; however, if a better seed existed...it probably would have taken too long to make any difference. I had considered BOTing this, but the emulation is way too slow and I would have had to play the first mode in order to test the second mode.
Good to know that someone else in this community knows their C64 stuff!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Just letting you know that I will be finalizing judgement here in the next day or so.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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FYI: I'm getting close to finishing my review on this. I think I should be done this weekend.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Twisted_Eye wrote:
okay, sound on, cause wow that's trippy as hell. Really neat game and run you've got here
Thanks. That sound is pretty weird. I'm laughing now, because I also remember your sound association with the Moon Patrol jumping. LOL
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I'll be finalizing this submission by tomorrow.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Putting this submission on delayed, so that I can keep up with what I'm waiting on.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Ok. Let's check back in 2 weeks. I'll put this on Delayed.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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So are we done with everything?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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eien86 wrote:
Hi Nymx! We've found yet a new improvement to this movie so I'll ask you to hold on judging for a bit ;)
No problem. Just let me know when you are ready. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Ok...I've given you 5 days to respond and I'm getting nothing. So here is the deal...Asumeh has mentioned a number of improvements and I can see some, but just not all. The competition is high with SMB style games and small situations become more questionable than less popular games.
Because you have not responded with an answer to these concenrs, I'm rejecting this submission.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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eien86 wrote:
nymx wrote:
If I were to play on a less difficult level, the points would obviously be less. But I must be missing something in the manual...does speed increase points?
Hey Nymx! I did some research myself, but also found this FAQ which clarifies scoring. Here are my findings:
The points and bonus obtained (e.g., by adding pipe, doing a loop, doing a crossover, etc) are independent from both the difficulty and the speed selected
The max difficulty enables a highest score indirectly: it offers more "gimmicks", like wall-holes, end pipe, pre-placed pipes, all of which increase the bonus.
The speed plays no role in score; it just makes the challenge more exciting
Thanks. That clears it up.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
.. then once you find a seed, just resync with the unmodified version. I notice there's an option to keep the computer's tiles hidden. This might speed up the game, but there's certainly an entertainment trade-off there.
That said, evaluating a seed requires looking at what the CPU will do, not just having the move sequence available. FWIW I think the watch location for the TI(ME) value is A0/A1/A2 (24 bits): https://www.pagetable.com/c64ref/c64mem/#TIME