Posts for slash_star_dash

Posted: 3/8/2006 11:33 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

as a general rule, if i havent played the game and am not entertained by the movie, i dont vote. i may not understand what the actual audience of the game sees that makes it so great and worthy of publishing, so i withhold. however, if im entertained but still have questions, ill ask. sorry, just felt the need to vent that. i knew this would come up since i saw it in the latest Gradius thread.

Posted: 3/8/2006 11:43 AM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

im not comfortable with doing it on the JP version for one (sorry). i think its just the language barrier that seems initially intimidating (taking into account item lists, which i'd have to sort and resort would be more of a hassle and someone who knew the language could just look at it and go "oh, thats what i wanted" without resorting). for another, im working on FF3j at the moment (albeit, not a final version since its a fan translation). maybe when im finished (or satisfied) ill be able to bring something to the table aside from comments. ;)

Posted: 3/7/2006 5:10 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

3 POTIONS IN ONE BATTLE File FYI: THIS screen is the screen where 3 potion drops per battle are occuring. unfortunately, im taking some major damage from the battles so ill end up having to go back to Ur or something to heal up when i get too low. but still, 3 potions in a single battle! damn. this is the place to go for potions! (/*- is really happy, cant you tell?). as well, i didnt PLAN out getting a second set of 3; it happened via autofire. its close to the end of the movie, when i re-enter Altar Cave and enter the big screen with all the treasure and hole to beginning of the game. EDITS HAVE BEEN MOVED TO BOTTOM OF POST IN HOPES OF AVOIDING CONFUSION

!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=
50206?-battle 11 [+ frames from stop time]
!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=

E1 B3 C5	P1
		     P2
E2 B4 C6	P3
		     P4

round 1:
-P1 targets C5
-P2 targets B3
-P3 targets C5
-P4 targets B4
-P2 kills B3
-B4 damages P2
-P3 misses C5
-E2 damages P3
-C5 damages P2
-P1 kills C5
-C6 damages P2
-E1 damages P1
-P4 damages B4
round 2:
-autofire (default target C6)
-P3 kills C6
-B4 damages P2
-P2 kills E1
-P1 kills E2
-P4 damages B4
round 3:
-autofire (default target B4)
-P2 kills B4
result:
-won 3 potions

EDIT: im officially working on v3 incase no ones noticed ;D EDIT2: i managed to NOT get killed by a Griffon and also have him drop a Southwind (500 extra gil!). nifty. so that should topple on more saved time as well. EDIT3: BTW, im beginning to think your PARTY might affect drop rates (kind of like the randomness of FFV's Big Bridge). as well, im just over 20 minutes and have 86? potions (or 87). so that shoulda saved me some time, along with hopefully acquiring the set of 3 per next few battles. im thinking about upgrading an onion kid outside of the 25-26 battles that lie ahead, so ill benefit fully from the straight to 99 jump (acquire 3 potions in one battle while upgrading items). /*- edit'd his EDIT3 to rid it of the Ice spell BS... and explains more in EDIT4. he is reluctant to make a new post because he has nothing truly new to report. EDIT4: strike EDIT3, the combo just takes a while to get (not 114 like before, but i was just getting frustrated; have 93 potions now). i think its that the game has its own way it wants to give you those potions (and yes, it all happend in the same type of battle we've seen already with 2 of each enemy). such as, there is a set-up which we have observed that has repeated itself. trying to replicate this pattern manually by making certain characters use certain actions WILL NOT WORK, for whatever reason that someone else who understands code better could perhaps explain (but sure as hell, NOT me). EDIT4.5: as well, ive stopped taking notes so religiously due to the pattern of 3 potions being redundant and all that matters at the time. im thinking after the 99 potions are gained, ill return to altar's first room and get single potions there (saving antidotes > otterheads for last). returning to the second room and getting 3 potions in a single battle to give my FEOK char 1 lvl 99 with full benefits, hopefully resulting in some better boss battles down the line. SirBahamut mentioned it possible to get 6 potions since there is a battle with 6 enemies that CAN drop a potion, but that would be REALLY complex/far-off if possible at all. EDIT5: "...now im in a rut". the next set of battles on screen 2 have no eyefangs, which is resulting in single potion only drops (odd, considering they drop nothing in the first place). though i may be jumping the gun, im heading back to screen 1 for 2 potions and then screen 2 for 3 potions (98) and back to screen 1 for a single and then upgrading. after FEOK is obtained, back to screen 2 for a massive shoot to lvl 99 w/ 3 potions. EDIT6: 2 potions obtained through odd means once again. still 4 goblins though. just need another set of 3 and then back for 1 and let the UPGRADING begin!

Posted: 3/7/2006 3:08 AM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

FOUND A PATTERN FOR 2 POTIONS! FILE < - thanks DeHackEd EDIT: i noticed that in all battles, the last kills were made in a diagnol pattern; goblin 3 and then goblin 2. i wonder if this is an attributing factor EDIT 2: im believeing it has to be. in a battle with an eyefang and 2 carbuncles, i kill the eyefang and defend for first round; next round, we assault the carbuncles and win a potion where we previously did not. perhaps its just luck though. EDIT 3: this pattern is REALLY difficult to replicate. after altar cave, i returned as 3 monks and a red mage (yeah, that same combo; i dont wanna waste potions). anyhow, it took 114 frames to get a battle where autofire yielded a potion, and it was again against 4 goblins. but the same thing didnt apply. i still cant believe i just sat here and did that either... 114 tries and retries. EDIT 3 (no, im not so tired as to not notice EDIT3 is written twice; i just didnt wanna clump it all together since i actually had 2 things to add): also, i won 2 potions from an eyefang and 2 carbuncles. was kind of cool, didnt expect it... thought they'd have a less chance of dropping. though, i didnt autofire there. i hope this is worth it... that getting the potions sooner will reduce the FEOK upgrading time. ive got 22 potions now... which i dont know how it compares, but ive kept notes on all my battles thusfar, big and small... in openoffice (thanks for mentioning this FODA) and notepad. its in battles 2 and 3 that you'll notice it. i simple did what i had to in battle 1. but notice how exact 2 and 3 are. please disregard the G# and P#; they're just to let me know who was in battle and where they were. you'll notice them matching up to the movie.

!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=
default-battle 1
!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=

in the first battle:

G1 G3   	P1
		    P2
G2      	  P3
		    P4

round 1:
-P1 attacked G1
-all else defensed
round 2:
-autofire
-G3 died, then G2
result:
-2 potions won from battle

!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=
3408-battle 2 [+75 frames from stop time]
!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=

in the second battle:

G1 G3 	 	P1
		    P2
G2 G4 		P3
		    P4

round 1:
-autofire (default target: g4)
-p4 kills g4
-p1 misses g3
-g3 damages p3
-p3 misses g3
-g2 damages p2
-p2 kills g1
round 2:
-autofire (default target: g3)
-g3 damages p3

-p3 kills g3
-p2 kills g2
result:
-won 2 potions

pattern? i notice many of my p# killed the opposing g#'s. and i did go by the order the game set them in.

as well, i was far more prone to win a single potion from a battle with 3 goblins than any other combonation (though to be fair, i didnt run into as many 4's as 3's). however, the deciding time came in a battle of 4 on 4

!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=
6474-battle 3 [+39 frames from stop time]
!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=

in the third battle:

G1 G3 	 	P1
		    P2
G2 G4 		P3
		    P4

round 1:
-autofire (default target: g4)
-p4 kills g4
-p1 misses g3
-g3 damages p3
-p3 misses g3
-g2 damages p2
-p2 kills g1
round 2:
-autofire (default target: g3)
-g3 damages p3
-p3 kills g3
-p2 kills g2
result:
-won 2 potions

HAHAHAHAHA! A PATTERN AT LAST! its the culmination of all things i thought it was (frame entering, actions occured, who went after who and the order of damage). note i'd run into other 4 way battles before but the same exact movements did not happen. this was NOT the case this time, as it played action for action from the previous battle. so at long last, a pattern has been found!

the only problem with this is that it only seems to happen on a certain battle, so something must be rigged because all that was done was autofire. nothing special in the least. ill attempt now to go back and challenge one of the other battles and see what happens (against 4 with this pattern of attacking, from me at least, though i think the game wants to make the results happen from autofiring).

DEFUNCT NOTES:

:thus far, 1 eyefang and 2 carbuncles have been the 'magic setup', netting me more potions on average than any other combonation. i am beginning to think that this set of battles will be very hard to win a potion from. for 1, only 1 of the 2 monsters will drop a potion; the other drops nothing. and we've yet to run into battles with 3 or more carbuncles. so its either manipulate the closest battle with 2 carbuncles or wait a step before entering the second screen and attempt from goblins.

we could cut our losses all together and wait for a 1:1 eyefang/carbuncle and get a potion. well, we actually have a few options:

1-stop before entering screen 2 and toggle until running into a battle with goblins yielding 2 potions once more.
2-fight a battle with least damage (say, the single eyefang and carbuncle that yielded a fang) and move on with one potion.
3-experiment with current situation further (a battle with 2 carbuncles that already yields a potion).

im personally going for 1, since goblins are much more easy to gain potions from, and we wont be sacrificing battle too much. perhaps that single 3 potion was a fluke; potions do seem harder to come by early on.

dont get me wrong; i still have every reason to believe that battles can be manipulated to win potions in every battle. you may just have to so extravagently manipulate the situation that it would just ward off attempting (from me at least).

i hope this in someway eases minds. just note that getting such amounts from the next screen has not been possible thusfar (reason why i stayed on screen 1 for battles 2 and 3).

Posted: 3/6/2006 8:19 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

something like this would be useful for FF3j and determining how potions are aquired by winning battles, but i couldnt begin to tell you the addresses since i have no idea what im looking at in a memory viewer.

Posted: 3/6/2006 8:10 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

Skip to the Arena from Floating Garden Once you get to the Floating Garden, you can use the Gorgons to reach the Arena instantly. First, go up the first elevator you see. Then, head up all the way until you see the Red Crow sitting on the staircase--there should be a Gorgon to the right of it. Stand on the very back of the Gorgon and have it walk towards the pillar. Once it hits the pillar and starts turning, run towards the pillar and, if you did it right, you should see Soma crouched in the wall and rapidly moving upwards. You should land in a room of The Arena right under a Dead Crusader. Note: This glitch also works with any other Gorgon or Catoblepas if they run into a wall at some point and turn around.

maybe they dont find it necessary to name other areas?

Posted: 3/6/2006 8:00 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

has ANYONE made ANY progress? from the gathered information here as well as gamefaqs and SDA, it should be more than enough to at least finish a test version. im not discounting other things such as LIFE coming up, but this game just seems kind of mindless to complete at this point (for me at least)... we've kind of answered the money issue (well, once you're past karnak, which Boco was, since you need a Ninja), boss strategies can come almost directly from the GameFAQs low level FAQ, routes shouldnt be a huge problem for a test run, you'll escape from every battle pretty much (aside from Bosses). sorry if i sound whiny, but this game has been on hold for a while. id like to attempt it but i wouldnt be able to do the japanese version (because i dont know any second languages).

Posted: 3/6/2006 7:55 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

if filespace went down, no biggie. that place doesnt seem to work for me anymore anyways.

nitsuja wrote:

What happens if you have 99 potions already and set up the item-morphing trick, then get 2 potions in a battle instead of 1? Does it change the item 2 steps at once?

this is the special part of SirBahamut's trick. it upgrades your character: from the FAQ:

SIDE EFFECT:
Unlike the other method I provided, Sir Bahamut's way has an alternate... 
effect. In my method, receiving 1,2, even 100 potions will always just 
provide you with the upgrade and nothing more.  
Sir Bahamut's method is different; if you receive 1 potion the item is 
upgraded normally.  But beware!  Receiving 2 or more potions in this 
method will not only upgrade your item but also your first character.  
The first thing you will notice is that the first character's name will 
be "upgraded".  For example:  If it was named Guy, It would now be called
Huy.  So the first letter value is given a +1 value.  Next, if you now go
to the status of that character, you will notice it will have:
9999999 exp
999L999 to next level

But these stats are misleading.  The truth is that after every battle, 
that character will level up!  YEAH!  So for the sake of your beautifully 
crafted, witty name, you will be level 99 in under 100 battles.  This is 
really handy in the challenges.

this is also why i named 1 and 2 AAAAAA and BAAAAA; when AAAAAA upgraded, i wanted to see what would happen; turns out, pretty much nothing. characters arent suppose to have the same name, but it still did nothing spectacular.

Posted: 3/6/2006 4:59 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

haha! it must have something to do with the round an enemy dies! in the first battle (which i think can only be manipulated from when you start), i went in and the first time killed everyone and got nothing. second time, my first 2 attacked and other 2 defended; we killed 2 goblins and left the upper left (back-most) one alive. next round, we all attacked and killed him. after battle, we got a POTION. so it must have something to do with round they're killed in. autofire strat was used. id post it, but its not really worth the effort, as it can be easily reproduced. just thought it was worth noting im not completely insane. RE-reEDIT:ok, so now i killed the back row top left one in the first round and in the next round i killed both other guys with auto fire (the front top one died first and then the bottom back row one died). i got 2 POTIONS! oh, and sorry for alarming you IRC people who dont really care. EDIT: doesnt appear to be so simple. i was waiting and waiting to take the other 2 out and after 2 rounds of the first goblin dying, i magically didnt gain the potion! meh... hmph... well, thats why pencils have erasers. one other thing though. and i should have mentioned this earlier. when i was in the dark world, i was coming back from ahriman and heading to echidna. somewhere in that main area (where you first appear; dark world's central point), i had a random encounter. so i reloaded and cant remember what i did different. i think i turned into a wall instead of rounding the corner. anyhow, i kept going and didnt get the encounter on the same step i normally did. and in fact , from then on, i could only encounter much further down the line. so either i was hallucinating or it somehow messed with the encounter rate. i couldnt replicate it, hence the reason i didnt post it. but has something similar happened to anyone else?

Posted: 3/6/2006 4:07 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

gotcha. i thought he meant something around alucard and mina. thanks Atma.

Posted: 3/6/2006 3:33 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

sorry to once again ask Zurreco, but what is the castle entrance glitch? i checked the Aria website and gamefaqs secrets... nothing. just curious.

Posted: 3/6/2006 4:28 AM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

love old school CV game play. and this looks extremely smooth... rarely do you even pause; and close calls abound. the graphics do have some WTF moments, and i have no idea what happened to the last boss. questions! 1-at around 10900 in, why dont you just take damage from the enemy instead of waiting a second? would the health loss have been so great? 2-at around 24000, was there any way to eliminate that lag from the statue head firing at you?

Posted: 3/6/2006 2:21 AM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

perhaps. you'd have a ton of money from that alone. you can always try for yourself. though remember, theres still a minimum of 25 battles (24 if you intend on skipping otterheads upgraded). but yeah, its possible. but so would be manipulating the battles to win more potions (and considering i could gain 70 some before even starting to upgrade, thats not many altar cave battles; half if you consistently win 2 potions and in the single digits if you can manage 3). so it needs testing. mines just a rough idea of what for FEOK run. im not doing a final version because my japanese is horrendous (well, what little i know). ... you could do all things possible to get those 70 some potions (as i did, such as an early griffon fight and all) and just skip many random battles, so that does make it seem somewhat quicker. however, im on hiatus for a bit. if someone else whats to play around (Omega, you were quite far on your WiP), then do so and compare. if its very little difference its prolly because of my half-assed menu scrolling.

Posted: 3/5/2006 6:10 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

Zurreco, where exactly are the glitches going to take you? i know you can end up in the Chaos realm from the Chapel, and that the garden one can take you to the arena OR the top floor (they can all take you different places; chapel can also take you to the underground resevoir). i just was wondering where the other warps/glitches will take you?

Posted: 3/5/2006 3:38 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

that doesnt mean the same quality cant be seen, just that it wont be in the same style. and im not really sure how greatly this will affect the game. i only played one, but if getting magic is as frequent as it was in the previous game, it shouldnt be too different. however, if it is different, then who knows.

Posted: 3/5/2006 1:11 AM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

2:48:26 < DeHackEd still rocks ;) Save States

F1	Seeing Griffon
F2	Get FEOK!'d
F3	Nepto's Shrine
F4	Hyne's Castle
F5	Disaster at Salonia
F6	Airship Invincible!
F7	Last Fang in our possession
F8	Ancients Labyrinth
F9	Dark World
F0	Dark Cloud awaits

doing this without the GodsWine was a bit harder. again, excess items, but the route is much better. it does not end at LAST INPUT, just with the last input of the Dark Cloud battle. this should be the last version i do. it was just to see how long FEOK's took to complete the game. id still like to attempt luck manipulation in some way... as far as getting potions, but ive been working on this for about a week straight now so ill take a little break.

Posted: 3/4/2006 9:03 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

once FEOK's are gained, the game is almost mindless if you've the correct route in mind. the only thing that remotely stands up to them is Hekaton's physical attacks and thats prolly because of such low levels for my other 3. the Dark World minions are also quite a match with METEO and 2-Headed Dragon's physical attacks (Dark Cloud's Flare Wave is kind of an "oh, thats what pain felt like... ok, time for an elixir"). But Sir Bahamut's guide outlines the pattern of attacks so it shouldnt be hard at all (any other attack does 1 HP damage). 2-Headed Dragon should be the biggest frustration because i KNOW he'll kill my lead character at some point. but thats what all the Fenix Downs and Elixirs will be for. the only time for luck manipulation is for upgrading. sure, you use it to stop just a step or movement before to avoid battle, but nothing aside from that (and DAMN do airships ever run into some of the most frequent battles; when id open and close the menu in my last version, that wasnt because i forgot... it was because the encounter rate was still at 1). thank you, Omega. i knew i wasnt just imagining those views increasing. ^_^ well, back to game.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:42 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

2:12:06 before we're heading back to the floating isle for the upgrades of elixirs and fenix downs. so we'll have this much left:

Invincible
   -buy hipotions
Altar Cave
   -return here and upgrade
   -hipotions to fenix downs
Invincible
   -buy hipotions
Altar Cave
   -hipotions to elixirs
Statues Of The Quest
   -use 4 Fangs to advance
Ancients' Labyrinth
   -nothing
Sylx Tower
   -battle Zande
Dark World
   -battle Echidna
   -use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
   -battle Ahriman
   -use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
   -battle 2-headed Dragon
   -use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
   -battle Cerberus
   -use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
   -battle Dark Cloud

id show it now, but why spoil it with only so little to go. it should be finished by the end of the night unless something unforseen happens. but i felt the need to update.

Posted: 3/4/2006 4:09 AM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

thanks once more DeHackEd! :D ok, what ive got so far is im at the dwarf cave before guzco. the first warp i use out of sasoon castle should be somewhat of a shocker. i wonder where it could be further implemented, if at all? anyhow, we're 1:21:32 into the game. there are still some mistakes, such as picking up unnecessary treasure. and the menu scrolling for upgrading is done very suboptimally because i dont like the way this game scrolls and leaves remnants on the same frame it should be moving things. if all goes well, i might have this finished tomorrow or saturday (its honestly not hard at all). oh, and i kind of went back on the RANDOM BATTLE thing. FEOKs will fight some in order to upgrade. well, night everyone.

Posted: 3/3/2006 10:07 PM

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slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

EDIT: i hate to disappoint greatly here, but im afraid it still took an hour to fully upgrade. ive a new idea though... but im not sure how to apply it. it has to do with one of the theories... about killing them on certain rounds. 4 monks could do it no problem, im almost sure of it (well, im actually not). however, that would mean class changing after griffon (capacity issues). we had 74 potions by the end before heading back into the cave... IF we could get 3 potions per battle, that would mean only 8 battles to get to 99. and with that carrying over further hopefully, 8 more battles. the problem is with experimenting. i havent been able to get 3 potions in while, but 2 potions just takes a few dozen more frame attempts even on autofire. that could save time as well. ill post what i have before i go to sleep tonight. hopefully it'll demonstrate the use of the otterheads and warping out; and you'll see why they're so worth it (if i can get all 30 of em to work correctly). thanks DeHackEd :) sorry, havent got much further because i was out. in any case, some of the theories that came to mind are listed here. namely, im gonna try and win 3 potions from a 2 potion battle. could someone kindly rule out a few of the below theories to ease my mind? please be gentle too, im not as GIFTED as most users in coding and such.

for land turtle and i suppose all other boss battles, they cant be easily manipulated. i mean by stopping a frame beforehand and then moving onward. it seems that the damage is random?

something to note; im not keeping track of battles that dont take waiting time. mainly because it wouldnt do any good AND because there is no stop.

current HIGH	13 frame difference.

stopped on 4700 (possible it was 4699)
-4701	potion
stopped on 6891
-6893	potion
stopped on 10373
-10385

MISSED A FEW

-----DEFUNCT-----
stopped on 49936
-49944 or something... close to that. sorry.
stopped on 52695
-52708
stopped on 55218
-55226
-----DEFUNCT-----

enters new room, estimate 49651?
-49653
stopped on 53045
-53050
stopped on 76619
-76621
stopped on 78847
-78849
stopped on 80897
-80900
stopped on 84508
-84512
stopped on 86886
-86890
stopped on 89591
-89597
stopped on 92589
-92593*

very vital to note i won 2 potions in this battle. !? how did this happen suddenly?

stopped on 95036
-95037
stopped on 98324
-98327
stopped on 100120
-100129
stopped on 102330
-102332*

IT HAPPENED AGAIN! 2 POTIONS!! WTF!? DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH ENEMIES BATTLED, CAUSE I HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE GOBLINS?

stopped on 105912
-105913
stopped on 107900
-107910
stopped on 112657
-112662
stopped on 114616
-114619
stopped on 117122
-117125
stopped on 119894
-119899
stopped on 122009
-122011
stopped on 124007
-124009*

ANOTHER!! YET A FUCKIN NOTHER!

stopped on 126785
-126786

-actually, what is done inside battle does affect the outcome! by this i mean my berserk strat isnt so full proof. if not all enemies are killed in a certain round, the result changes.

im wondering on 2 things:

-1-is the frame number when entering battle a predetermined time set within the ROM or game that makes it a battle where an item can be dropped.

OR

-2a-is the time between battles via frame number a lengthy pattern that carries over. 

OR 

-2b-is this a randomly generated value which it has so far proven to be so (though i wouldnt expect such transparency).

there must be a pattern eventually. the game cannot be entirely random, and ive reason to believe that in some way i can manipulate potion battles and EVEN non-potion battles to obtain them (moreso). meaning all battles should have a way to drop a potion. 

...in some RPGs, when running from battle, you are prone to drop things. in this game, enemies can attempt to run but are not always successful. i wonder if this is what causes it? maybe not...

-3a-perhaps each round, the enemy may or may not have the item on them. if killed in that round in which they HAVE the item, they drop. so it may indeed just be a waiting game for the correct round to come up to kill them?

-3b-or perhaps order plays a part in it as well? such as they must be killed in a certain order to obtain the maximum amount of potions? this could mean a waiting game.

please note, i have deeply treaded into unknown territory. outlandish ideas.

for us to ever hope to gain 3 potions in a single battle once more, we must have a battle in which there are 3-4 goblins of course. 

stopped on 131002
-131003	------
-131004	------
-131005	------
-131006	------
-131007	potion	+5
-131008	------
-131009	------
-131010	potion	+8
-131011	------
-131012	------
-131013	potion	+11
-131014	------
-131015	------
-131016	------
-131017	------
-131018	------
-131019	------
-131020	------
-131021	------
-131022	------
-131023	------
-131024	------
-131025	------
-131026	------
-131027	!!! 2 potions +25
-131028	------
-131029	------
-131030 ------
-131031 ------
-131032 ------
-131033 ------
-131034 ------
-131035 ------
-131036 ------
-131037 ------
-131038 ------
-131039 ------
-131040 potion +38
-131041 potion +39
-131042 ------
-131043 ------
-131044 ------
-131045 ------
-131046 ------
-131047 ------
-131048 potion +46
-131049 ------
-131050 ------
-131051 ------
-131052 ------
-131053 ------
-131054 ------
-131055 ------
-131056 ------
-131057 ------
-131058 ------
-131059 ------
-131060 ------
-131061 ------
-131062 ------
-131063 potion +61
-131064 ------
-131065 ------
-131066 ------
-131067 ------
-131068 ------
-131069 ------
-131070 ------
-131071 !!!!2 potions +69
-131072 ------
-131073 potion +71
-131074 ------
-131075 ------
-131076 !!!!2 potions +74
-131077 ------
-131078 potion +76
-131079 ------
-131080 ------
-131081 ------
-131082 ------
-131083 ------
-131084 ------
-131085 ------
-131086 ------
-131087 ------
-131088 ------
-131089 
-131090 
-131091 
-131092 
-131093 
-131094 
-131095 
-131096 
-131097 
-131098 
-131099 
-131100

Posted: 3/3/2006 3:43 AM

Quote

slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

EDIT3: 13 appears to be the maximum number of frames waiting for a potion battle, and there seems to be no pattern YET in how they're generated through battle. i can note however that actions inside battle DO effect the outcome as far as drop rates. if certain enemies are not killed in a certain time OR if different commands are taken, then the item wont be there after battle (or its altered?). im leaning in neither direction because ive experience both and still got a potion and done both and not got a potion. oh, for anyone wondering, im 35 minutes in when all 99 potions are gained (im guessing im quite faster by now?). this could be improved a bit i think. but im not working on a final, just a precise, experimental v2. ;) ill post the actual movie sometime later when i get back. im currently in the process of trying to find a pattern BEFORE upgrading to see if i can apply it to get 3 potions in one battle and go straight to level 99 (if only as a monk). however, im still using autofire mode. EDIT2: ok, so currently, the biggest difference in stopping and starting to move again and gaining a potion is 13 frames. EDIT: im currently working on the new version and things are going well (i hate to jinx myself). im currently comparing what frame i stop at to what frame i start to move again (something that parser couldnt help me with since i was spastic in movement last time as well as ALWAYS auto-firing) to determine if theres any pattern or way to predict when a potion is more likely to be dropped. its not been so bad thusfar. it turns out that pausing for only a few frames can yield a potion. yeah, thats sure to change now :P ill post what i can when im done with what ive got so far. im keeping notes on frames this time as much as i can remember. oh, and i KNOW its not gonna be accepted here since its a fan translation. to be honest, i dont even know why im still doing this. odd. FEOK Notes Revised - hopefully filespace doesnt still suck. Mirror; i hate filespace now ill post the basic outline of whats to happen this time, omitting actually gaining potions and upgrading (ive yet to think how optimally this will happen).

!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=
streamline walkthrough v2, experimental
!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=!=-=

* = done at your own disgression; suggested by me from remembering previous attempt.
** = completed sometime before Big Boulder is destroyed; preferred before Cave of the Seal.

MOST RECENT/OPTIMAL ROUTE

Altar Cave 
	-collect items*
	-battle land turtle
	-change classes to Monk/Monk/Monk/Red Mage?
Ur 
	-buy items*
Kazus 
	-get permission from Cid to use the Airship
	-use otterhead to warp out
Cave Of The Seal 
	-battle Jinn
Sassoon Castle 
	-return with Sara
	-collect Canoe from King
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-get Airship back and fly to Kazus
Kazus (Again) 
	-talk to Cid
	-talk to Man in Upper right hand house
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-fly ship into boulder
	-trek to Canaan

!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-
ALTAR CAVE UPGRADES**
	-battle enemies for 99 potions
	-use SirBahamut's setup to upgrade
	-long swords to onion swords
	-leather helmets to onion helmets
	-leather vests to onion armor
	-copper rings to onion armlets
	-leather shields to onion shields*
	-antidotes to otterheads
!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-!=-	

Canaan 
	-lose Cid
Road To The Summit/Bahamut's Nest/Aftermath
	-talk with Desh
	-Run from Bahamut
	-go to Healing Forest
	-Red Mage turns you to Mini's
	-use otterhead to warp out
Tozas 
	-collect items from nearby Chests*
	-give Antidote to Dwarf to pass
Viking Base 
	-nothing
Nepto Shrine 
	-collect items from nearby Chests*
	-battle Big Rat
	-collect Eye
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-return Nepto's Eye
	-collect Water Fang
	-use otterhead to warp out
Gurgan Valley 
	-gain Toad spell
	-use otterhead to warp out
Tower Of Owen 
	-Red Mage turns you to toads
	-collect items from nearby Chests*
	-battle Medusa
Gisahl
	-collect Shuriken and resale*
	-buy Magic Keys
	-use otterhead to warp out
Altar Cave
	-upgrade antidotes to otterheads
Dwarf Cave/Underground Lake 
	-battle Guzco
	-collect Horn
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-return Horn
	-use otterhead to warp out
Flame Cave 
	-battle Salamander
Tokkle/Hyne Castle 
	-get caught
	-battle Hyne
	-collect Wind Fang in subsequent aftermath
Argass Castle/Canaan 
	-collect Time Gear from King
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-return to Canaan
	-give Time Gear to Cid
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-ready for the new world
	-buy more Potions*
Solitary Island/Shipwreck 
	-use Potion to gain Elia
	-use otterhead to warp out
Water Temple/Water Cave 
	-collect Crystal Shard
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-battle Kraken
Amur Sewer 
	-nothing
Goldor's Mansion 
	-use Magic Key to advance
	-battle Goldor
	-collect Key to unlock Airship
	-use otterhead to warp out
SW Salonia/Salonia Castle 
	-demolish airship
	-battle fiends
	-save prince
	-use otterhead to warp out
	-return to castle
	-battle Garuda
	-talk with Scholars
	-gain Nautilus
Dorga's House/Magic Circle Cave 
	-nothing*
Temple Of Time 
	-use Magic Key to advance
	-use Magic Key to collect Noah's Flute
	-use Otterhead to warp out
Unne's Shrine 
	-use Lute to wake up Unne
	-collect Fire Fang
	-use otterhead to warp out
Ancient Ruins/Airship Invincible 
	-purchase more HiPotions*
Cave Of Darkness 
	-collect treasures not far off*
	-battle Hekaton
	-collect Earth Fang
	-use otterhead to warp out
Dorga's Cave 
	-collect 40000 gil from close chests*
	-battle Dorga/Unne
	-collect Sylx/Eureka Keys
	-use otterhead to warp out
Invincible
	-buy hipotions
Altar Cave
	-return here and upgrade
	-hipotions to fenix downs
Invincible
	-buy hipotions
Altar Cave
	-hipotions to elixirs
Statues Of The Quest
	-use 4 Fangs to advance
Ancients' Labyrinth 
	-nothing
Sylx Tower 
	-battle Zande
Dark World 
	-battle Echidna
	-use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
	-battle Ahriman
	-use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
	-battle 2-headed Dragon
	-use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
	-battle Cerberus
	-use Otterhead to warp back to entrance
	-battle Dark Cloud

some of these OTTERHEAD WARPS might not work. restrategizing means we're skipping otterhead - godswine and instead attempting to take on the Dark World's minions with the aide of Elixirs only. how we're going to optimize this is beyond me.

main differences: -not using potions to avoid battles until AFTER upgrading -more optimized list for what to sell and what to keep. -using antidotes to upgrade to otterheads for warping out of areas (near 30 by estimate, could be wrong) -a better idea of what frame to battle on to gain a potion? unsure, as it seems random regardless. -no otterheads to godswine upgradel instead use fenix downs and elixirs. -buy shuriken and magic keys after tower of owen; buy more antidotes and upgrade for more otterheads for better warps -no random battles for the FEOK! -lower level completion -maybe other stuff i dont know about yet.

Posted: 3/2/2006 6:00 AM

Quote

slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

4matsy, your videos hilarious.

Posted: 3/2/2006 2:15 AM

Quote

slash_star_dash

Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518

FEOK attempt Mirror, because filespace sucks precursor: ROM used - Final Fantasy III (J) [o1][T+EngR2_AWJ+NCorlett+SoM2Freak].nes I HIGHLY SUGGEST YOU USE SAVE STATE 1 W/ READ ONLY TICKED because the first hour or so is just me upgrading to onion knights. this wasnt done to be a final product, so shut up about the mistakes that are everywhere. very rarely did i use slowdowns. this was just done to give a rough estimate of how long onion kids take to beat the game. there are excess items, odd routes and a whole mess of stuff that makes this unpretty. i revised some planning near the end if anyone wishes to attempt this. i try not to fight that many battles to progress along. the savestates are:

1	after FEOK gained (over an hour into the movie)
2	leaving the island
3	salonia
4	airship invincible
5	statues of quest
6	dorga and unne showdown
7	ancients labyrinth
8	dark world

there are times when i just didnt wanna rewind so i let things go. everything else should be in the notes which i wrote while doing it and dont really care to revise. random battles come bundled with rewards i think. meaning the only thing that matters is the step or so BEFORE entering battle and not battle input itself. questions and comments are encouraged. im not really planning to do an actual run, and just did this as an experiment more than anything.