I'm not sure how useful this would be, but I did an RTA route that uses most of the clips I know about. Obviously stuff like the coin route and sub weapon ammo route will be drastically different because a TAS can manipulate drops from enemies.
Link to video
The clips I didn't do. (that I know would be useful)
1) Chamber of Birth Grail Warp room -> Dance of Life room. -A TAS could probably use the skeleton there
2) True Shrine: Just below Mother's Ankh room
3) Temple of Moon: Clipping into the "Woman" Inverted Pyramid -Tsaeralith has a video in this thread on this
4) Better Anchor skip in Corridor of Illusion.
There are likely a plethora of other smaller scale clips that a TAS could do as well. Hopefully this can be somewhat useful in routing a TAS.
Is it possible to kill the second octorok without slowing down? I didn't find a way.
Doesn't the sword beam have a higher hitbox than the sword? Could you miss the octorok below it and hit it with the sword beam?
What happens if you do the encounter glitch in glitch town since it has exits on both sides?
P5 has the block room, I'm not sure you could use it for anything
This will take you back to the entrance of P1. I doubt it would save time, but you could possibly backtrack to here and go to P1 after beating the boss and getting the whistle. I'm not sure how the crystal placement will interact with that though.
Something to consider in P4 as a possible alternate route. Go to maze island and go straight to the palace. Get the boots first and then go back to the pit and fall down. Instead of going left, go right. You can use the bubble there to get above the wall on the right side with help from the Jump spell. Walking off the screen there dumps you back on the world map on the palace like you left it normally. You'd also be able to get a key and you can pick up the kid on the way off maze island. Again, no idea if it would be faster to do that than get the boots after Carock and up+a.
I just noticed you have the wrong amount of xp for the Blue Stalfos in Palace 2. They give 50, not 70. The blue armored ones give 70 (in palaces 3, 4, and 6).
Unless my math is wrong, your totals would look like this:
B Stalfos - 50 (50)
O IK - 50 (100)
O IK - 50 (150)
B Stalfos - 50 (200)
R IK - 100 (300)
Bag in ceiling drop room - 50 (350)
O IK - Drop (550)
O IK - 50 (600)
B Stalfos - 50 (650)
B Stalfos - 50 (700)
B Stalfos - 50 (750)
Hammer - 50 (800)
R IK - Drop (1000)
B Stalfos - 50 (1050)
HelmetHead - 200 (1250)
Skipping the last B Stalfos, or the 50 bag, will net you 1200 on the dot. Small enemies shouldn't make a difference for xp.
You could manipulate a 200 bag in Palace 1. I don't know if that's a real option though. The same will hold true for Palace 2 (the 3rd O IK and last R IK will be drops on the list above). I think it'll be the same for Palace 3 as well.
It's possible to make it through Palace 4 with magic 4, though it will require 2 deaths which will eat up quite a bit of time for a TAS. Stopping for a crystal level (or 2) would probably be faster in that case.
I'll mention this so people know. On the fight with the last pumpkin boss, you can bypass the invulnerability just before it goes into pissed off mode by stopping time and dash kicking it to death. For some reason, dash kicks while time is stopped bypass invulnerability.
I would also recommend dash kicking the tank boss and the cat, especially the cat. Dash kicks are a lot more powerful than people think. On Chelsea's final phase, it's possible to get in some early damage by dash kicking her before she "stops time" at the start of that phase. I've also seen a video somewhere where someone stomps on Chelsea's first form under a platform and she basically moves on to phase 2 right away.
The official English translated version, which I believe can only be acquired on Desura at the moment, has a few changes from the original. Most are irrelevant, slight graphical changes and such. But there are a some bosses with altered health and patterns. The "first" boss who guards the dash boots, her pattern is slightly different. The Count has increased health. The 2nd Pumpkin boss (the one with the falling pumpkins) has the extra pumpkins appear on his level and take an arc around the room and explode if they hit the ground. And finally, I believe Chelsea's final form has reduced health. They also disabled reversing time in the pumpkin fights. They might have done that for all bosses.
Also, in the official English version, Chelsea's ladder actually costs mana to use. This nerfs her abilities greatly. Though she does regen mana, very very slowly. Otherwise, Chelsea's game seems to be the same.
I'm basically saying, use the original for a TAS. Even those minor changes make things slightly slower.
edit: I redownloaded the game from Desura. I am now able to reverse time against the pumpkin bosses. So either they changed it back at some point, or the game downloaded incorrectly for me.
I've been doing some experimenting myself with the wall clips. However, the tests I've been doing have been in real time, since I'm an RTA player. I also don't know how to TAS things. Pretty much most of the stuff I've tried has been to find easier ways to do them, since they're so precise. I did try a couple places that I haven't seen before though.
In the Endless Corridor, if you go to where you would enter the Shrine of the Mother, you can clip into the top right part and go up. You can even push yourself right and go all the way up to the part with the Twin Statue, saving 2 grenades. There's a platform with a ladder next to it. Stand on the bottom one and do it from there. The back swing from the whip will hit the part that shoots lightning at you.
I also got one in the Inferno Caverns in the path to the Chain Whip. The first room there has a bunch of skeletons that throw bones. I was able to clip into the right wall and go up. I was hoping it would take me to the part past where the hidden path is on the Surface. It didn't. It took me to where the exit to the Temple of the Sun is. This got me thinking on how the maps were designed. I'll go into that in a bit.
I tried for about an hour trying to get one in the Graveyard of Giants unsuccessfully. At the entrance to the Tower of Ruin on the top right is a section that looks angled. It's not. It's actually several "steps". The fuzzball enemy on the top right actually starts off going towards it. If this one takes you where I think it does, this would give access to Bombs and upper Chamber of Birth without needing to go through the Tower of the Goddess. I don't even know if this one is possible. I was taking a hit from the fuzzball and then trying to damage boost into the wall right as my invulnerability ended.
So, about how I think the maps are set up. I think they are all just 4x5 grids. 4 across by 5 down. Normally, they wrap from top to bottom and left to right, or vice versa. The exception is if you go in the direction of an Area transition. Then you go to the new area instead of wrapping. The Twin Labyrinth is two maps then, one for the Front and one for the Back. All of the maps do fit into a 4x5 grid and preserve movement from screen to screen properly. The only map that this doesn't work on is the Surface, which I suspect is two maps with some extra space for things like the bosses or something. This would be easier to check with Cheat Engine. If they are set up this way, it would be helpful to have a map that shows what is actually where, not what the designers want you to think it looks like.
For the Dimensional Corridor, the entrance has a couple places you could glitch into the wall, either where the ladder should appears or further to the right. Could you get in by doing the same thing as entering the Twin Labyrinth from the Inferno Caverns? Though you'll need the Keyblade to kill one of the mini bosses. But you could always do half of it and then leave to the Endless Corridor and then warp back once you have the Keyblade, assuming you can get in.
You can use the Silver Shield to get the Container, it's just the Angel Shield is a bit more in the way, currently. Plus the Angel Shield can block pretty much everything, even lightning.
The Sage in the Dimensional Corridor is going to be required unless a way to get past Mother's first form is found without the medicine.
I remember the other sages opening different paths. The one in the Spring in the Sky makes a block disappear on the ladder by Nu Wa. The Sage in the Temple of Moonlight opens the Death Seal room (which you may also need the Dragon Bone for). The sage in the Tower of the Goddess makes the room with Mother's Ankh accessible (normally there's a wall preventing access). I could be wrong, but I remember testing and this is what I came up with.
The only thing I'm not personally sure about is what the Mantras actually do.
Can you get into the Dimensional Corridor without the crystal skull? If so, I'd imagine doing it right after you get the Katana would be the best time to do it. It would also skip going into the Shrine altogether. Unless the knife rom combo saves enough time to get.
Unless it'll be required for anything specific, this means you can skip getting the Fake Hand Scanner and Dragon Bone, reducing how much money you need by 350. Although unless you can find more areas to enter the Shrine or fight the giant Eyeball in Endless Corridor, you'll have to go back into the Twin Labyrinth in order to access the Shrine again.
If you kill the Eyeball after being in the shrine, can you access the Shrine from the Endless Corridor without the Dragon Bone or would it still need to be bought?
edit: Do you need the Dragon Bone for the Death Seal or do you only need to talk to the sage?
I didn't know about it when I did my run, but getting the anchor let's you fall faster in lava. It would be faster to get that first before putting the weight in the lava, while also doing the lizard puzzle and killing shield dude.
I'll also point it out now so you'll have time to think about it. You can kill the bat miniboss in the Confusion Gate when you do the time stop puzzle there. This will let you change quite a bit after that point since you won't need to wait for another use of the time lamp there.
Also, there's a 100 coin pot at the bottom of the Endless Corridor you can get while the eye chases you across it. You can actually go do that before going into the Chamber of Birth so you'll have enough for the Ankh Jewel there. Just remember you'll want the Talisman and have talked to Xhelpud so you can get the diary while you're doing this. Assuming you want to include this pot at all in the run.
Getting inside walls has been know about for some time, when playing around with Tas programs I found that you can glitch into almost any corner wall in the game, the problem is doing it in real time is pretty much impossible except in a few points.
Based on the video and Anon's description, you could probably glitch through any corner with a well timed damage boost. Though, you may want to contact him in case he has any details. I tried testing it myself when practicing for my single segment runs, but couldn't ever get it to happen. Though I was trying to do it in real time.
You won't have much use for the Gauntlet since you can abuse weapons so easily. And the quick damage works on bosses. The only ones you might have problems doing that with are Viy and Elmac.
Also, people have been able to get hit and glitch into walls and the ceiling. Though people haven't been able to find a reliable way to do it. I've never had it happen to me personally. It's considered TAS only territory. If you could figure out how it works, that would be awesomeness. It would also change the route you'd want to take in some places.
note to self (and others): If you are traveling at top speed in a direction, and press that direction the frame before you leave a room (thereby giving yourself top speed in the other direction) you seem to take the opposite exit.
Could you do this in that room and then just re-enter from the other side? It would save a death.
I watched the fm2. It's an interesting route.
One thing confused me though. Couldn't you take the same route as the published movie in the Great Palace, just adding the fairy glitch spots? If not, could you wall climb up where you die to the floating head and cast fairy above the screen instead of using U+D as a fairy?
I'm guessing there's no way to get into the medicine cave without going in the normal way.
i think you have to speak with her multiple times to get her to lose count of her steps, and the last time must be on the right frame
I do talk to her two or more times. I just can't get it to work.
There's something with the second to last usage of fairy I can't figure out. It worked before but now after fairy it spawns me in the next room inside the exit so I go straight back to the entrance.
Are you trying to do the fairy glitch with scroll lock active? I imagine you'd need to do it further left than where it would normally be done because the game thinks Link is further left, assuming I read the description of what scroll lock does correctly.
The only result I've gotten in the past 2 weeks of trying the Healer Glitch that resembles success is the girl walking the other way without the door opening. This is with no slowdown and with slowdown. I'm beginning to wonder if there is another factor to make it work other than just frame timing.
Hey all.
With Level 6 magic, you can cast Fairy twice and Jump once if you have 6 bars of magic. 6 bars of magic x 16 = 96. Fairy costs 40 and Jump 16. 40+40+16 = 96. This means you'd only need to pick up 2 magic containers.
A couple places you can use the Fairy Glitch as well. In Palace 3, there's the spot on the previous page that takes you to the room below. You can do it without casting Jump if you're on the top part of that area. After that, go to the right in the next room and do the Fairy Glitch again before the screen transition. It'll bypass the area with the pits and slimes. Though you'll either need to manipulate the Red IronKnuckle to drop a Red Potion or die in the raft room for magic if you don't have a key there. You'll also need level 5 magic (or higher) and get at least 1 magic container to do it.
The other place is just after the acquiring the glove. The room just before it has those falling blocks. If you get up above the blocks and cast Fairy, it'll take you to the entrance of Palace 1. Then you could just walk out of the palace and end up at the Palace 2 map location.
I do have a couple questions. How do you do the Healer Glitch? I haven't been able to get it to work at all.
Also, I know that the doing the Scroll Locking in glitch town causes some weird stuff. Does anyone have any idea what would happen if it was done on actual Hardware? Could it damage the system or cartridge?