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I'd like to clarify that when I said:
sonicpacker wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
It looks like people are finally (in the last 3 years) actually testing his 'drug' and finding that it works well on some cancers, most of which looks like breast cancer (ironically, the most curable of all cancers).
I'm directing this quote at Truncated.
I was referring to Truncated calling me crazy:
Truncated wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
Let me just say, I'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist. *looks at nfq*.
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mmbossman wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
It looks like people are finally (in the last 3 years) actually testing his 'drug' and finding that it works well on some cancers, most of which looks like breast cancer (ironically, the most curable of all cancers).
I'm directing this quote at Truncated.
Sigh, and now I'm just convinced that you're being stubborn. Truncated was right in everything that he said. Shoddy research is no replacement for high quality studies, even if the original hypothesis is shown to be correct.
I stated that there was other evidence besides what was in the documentary. I read elsewhere multiple articles on the subject. I recall 2 of them saying that Japan specifically had been working with antineoplastons and been getting some good results (in recent history). I guess that statement of "other evidence" got ignored somewhere along the line.
Edit: Yes, I know all about the scientific method. Thank you.
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DarkKobold wrote:
It looks like people are finally (in the last 3 years) actually testing his 'drug' and finding that it works well on some cancers, most of which looks like breast cancer (ironically, the most curable of all cancers).
I'm directing this quote at Truncated.
DarkKobold wrote:
Also, sonicpacker is just out of high school, so he'd have no concept of doctoral level statistics.
Lol, I just finished my junior year. I'm 17. However, I have taken some college courses (none related to this subject) and a test (CHSPE) to get me out of high school early (though I'm still taking some HS courses due to social reasons).
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mmbossman wrote:
without any sort of science behind it, IT'S NOT MEANINGFUL DATA.
Maybe just as "crazy" is in the eye of the beholder, meaningful is as well. We seem to disagree as to what constitutes real evidence. So I suppose discussing it further would be pointless.
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Derakon wrote:
It has nothing to do with the availability of information. Burzynski is free to publish his methods by any means he likes. He just can't apply them (outside of strictly restricted test cases) without the FDA's approval.
Exactly. So why release them? So the methods can be stolen by other people in other countries exactly like the FDA tried to do? Sounds good to me.
mmbossman wrote:
In both scenarios, 5 people had full remission of their cancer, which their medical records will show. But when you don't have a scientific study behind the records, you won't know about the other 995, especially if what's-his-name won't release his methods.
Jesus Christ, have I not said more than once that he claims it to be ~25% EFFECTIVE ON SPECIFIC TYPES OF CANCER.
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mmbossman wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
I was saying that the people that can testify for Burzynski's methods have their own personal medical records to back up their statements. That is good evidence..... The man has not released his methods. Of course they cannot be replicated (unless it is through sheer luck).
I don't want to jump into this one too, because I really have no idea of any of the supposed research or why/how it was suppressed/erased/etc., but the two statements above, so close together, made me LOL.
FYI, medical records are not scientific evidence, they are anecdotal accounts.
How can professional medical records not be used for scientific research? IMO, the anecdotal factor is the people testifying. The records themselves are the evidence to back up the claims.
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moozooh wrote:
Uhh, excuse me? Did FDA cut off his tongue and fingers?
He is trying to make his methods known by getting things done legally through the FDA. If the FDA won't cooperate, then his methods will never be publicly available throughout the US.
moozooh wrote:
What would you say if I postulate that aging (and death itself, in the form of phenoptosis) are mostly programmed organism behavior installed to facilitate evolution? There is a very interesting link between life expectancy, reproduction rate, and position in the food chain indeed.
I would call you crazy and an idiot for believing something that the general population doesn't. God damn free thinking. Who do you think you are?
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Truncated wrote:
I am not sure how to respond. You are welcome? You said as much about nfq, and since the rest of us are not persuaded by your documentary, I guess you consider us crazy/misguided/blind/deluded, too. I don't mind.
Like I said, it's in the eye of the beholder.
I don't consider you crazy, I consider you ignorant. If you can't see that the FDA does horrible things on purpose, with so much evidence (more than the documentary) to back that up, you are not only ignorant, but stupid (again, talking about the FDA, not Burzynski).
Truncated wrote:
As I understood it, your reason for believing this man was
1) published medical results, and
2) personal accounts.
Judging from what you wrote above, you seem to agree with me that personal accounts are extremely unreliable, have to be taken on faith and do not constitute evidence/proof. Great, we agree on something!
I wouldn't use "believe" as the term for how I feel towards him. As I said, I don't believe it's some miracle cure for all types of cancer. Evidence shows that it is MORE EFFECTIVE AGAINST SPECIFIC TYPES OF CANCER (caps locked because you didn't get it the first time) than chemo or radiation. You wrote "As I understood it," however, you understood incorrectly. I was saying that the people that can testify for Burzynski's methods have their own personal medical records to back up their statements. That is good evidence.
Truncated wrote:
As I understand it you choose to believe this man in spite of the abysmal level of his published work and lack of repeatability of his results. So be it then, but that is not going to convince anyone else.
The man has not released his methods. Of course they cannot be replicated (unless it is through sheer luck). If I told you to go bake a cake and all I said was "this is what it looks like, now you make it" and you had no prior knowledge of baking, there is no way in hell you would be able to make the cake.
"Truncated wrote:
A) The FDA, comparable organizations in other countries and other medical researchers are suppressing Burzynski's research and willingly letting millions of people die in cancer, including themselves and their relatives, in order to make money somehow.
B) Burzynski is lying about his results in order to make money selling his medicine.
One alternative is infinitely more likely than the other, even without knowing the quality of Burzynski's research.
Why would other regions FDA equivalents have anything to do with a man in Texas? He came to the US to practice because it is supposedly a "free country." The way you word what you say makes me think you don't know what's going on. His research is not being suppressed. However, his want to make his method public is. That is why he can still treat his own patients. Now I don't know about you, but considering he WANTS his method to be available to the public (and has been trying to do so for ~30 years), I don't believe he is in it for the money.
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Truncated wrote:
Well, crazy is in the eyes of the beholder. I (and most others here it seems) think the conspiracy theory that the FDA and its counterparts in all other industrialized countries and all independent researchers are silencing Burzunski are no less crazy than what nfq is claiming.
Thank you for implying I'm crazy. To even consider that the FDA cares more about research than money is outright ignorant. Not only did they attempt to silence him, but they tried to steal his methods (through patenting and blatant lying) because of how effective they were compared to the trillion dollar business of chemo or radiation.
Truncated wrote:
You think it has been shown since an online documentary says so.
No. I believe it because of the evidence in the documentary, not simply because it was stated.
Truncated wrote:
There are also multiple personal accounts of alien contact, crystal healing, astrology, and (conflicting) accounts of religious contact with god. Do you believe all these to be true, too?
I can't even describe how shitty of an analogy that is. Those personal accounts you mentioned would have to be believed by trust, not evidence/proof. The ones I was referring to, I believe because of multiple human medical records, not simply word of mouth.
Truncated wrote:
Admittedly I don't know much about the FDA, mostly about its counterparts in Sweden. I don't see what they could possibly gain (financially or otherwise) from trying to silence a treatment for cancer. And why didn't they do the same with the cure for tuberculosis, which in its time killed and crippled a comparable amount of people as cancer today? Or measles? Or smallpox?
The medical/pharmaceutical industry is completely different today than it was back when those were large scale diseases. Also, the diseases you mentioned generally affect all ages, while cancer tends to occur mostly in older people. If young people everywhere started dying, that would be a bigger problem than people in their 50s - 80s dying.
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Truncated wrote:
A question for sonicpacker, if you are still in this topic. By your own reckoning there are a lot of intelligent people here. How do you feel about the fact that people seem to be very distrusting of the documentary you posted? Does it weaken your beliefs in its message, doesn't change your opinion, or even reinforce your beliefs?
Let me just say, I'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist. *looks at nfq*.
I'm also going to point out, I don't believe that Burzynski's "find" is a miracle cure by any means. Results have shown that it is 25-ish% effective when dealing with specific types of cancer, with no harmful side effects. That being said, chemo/radiation isn't nearly as effective, and the side effects are horrible. I don't know how any of you guys can call it fraud when there are multiple personal accounts of Burzynski's method working.
Aside from me thinking he isn't necessarily a fake, what really bothers me is when people say "this movie is a fraud" and they don't even watch it. The point of the movie is not that there is a cure for cancer:
sonicpacker wrote:
The real point is that the FDA is run by money grubbing whores that don't actually care about what's best for the people of the US.
I still believe that statement is true and it would be very difficult to change my opinion on that.
I believe the first link is referenced in the movie, and they point out that the information wasn't collected/documented correctly. It was not trials conducted by Burzynski himself, but the American Cancer Society in agreement with him. However, the ACS did not follow protocol and went behind Burzynski's back multiple times.
Kuwaga wrote:
if Burzynski wasn't your prime argument.
He isn't. I was replying to Truncated's post.
sonicpacker wrote:
The point of the video is not to prove his "cure" actually works. I don't know why you guys keep bringing up fraud. The real point is that the FDA is run by money grubbing whores that don't actually care about what's best for the people of the US.
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DarkKobold wrote:
I noticed you never replied to my post that, ya know, demonstrates how the FDA works, and why they aren't shitting themselves for this drug.
Or, this one: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/burzynski1.html
Or, the wikipedia article that details where Burzynski has broken the law.
Yeah.
Lol, alright. First of all, the FDA attempted to steal a compound Burzynski was using, by filing multiple patents (11 I think?).
Secondly, just as you guys call the documentary I posted fraud or whatever, why should I believe any of the links you are posting? Anyone can basically say anything they want on the internet.
Thirdly, lol one of your links is Wikipedia. And you say my sources aren't credible?
Lastly, I already know he broke the law. However, he did it with good intentions. That's usually how positive things throughout history happen. Rosa Parks as an example, anyone?
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Did I say she was a scientist? I don't think there's a need to be rude Mr. Mod. Want another supporter? Dr. Oz. If you say he's not credible, I don't know if I'll continue replying.
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Truncated wrote:
By the way "no side effects" is a sure sign that a drug also has "no actual effects".
Results don't lie. Not only that, but other "important" figures like Oprah have backed this specific scientist up. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Oprah is some superpower that decides what is true and what is false, but she is someone with a very high status in the country. I'm fairly certain she wouldn't back up someone labeled as a fraud.
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Kuwaga wrote:
People who stopped watching the video did so because they could already tell it's a fraud.
The point of the video is not to prove his "cure" actually works. I don't know why you guys keep bringing up fraud. The real point is that the FDA is run by money grubbing whores that don't actually care about what's best for the people of the US.
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Warp wrote:
Perhaps if this film would have concentrated more on the FDA and less on Burzynski's research, in other words, more of a "the FDA furiously attacks a lone medical doctor" and less of a "miracle cancer cure being shut down by greedy farmaceuticals", and its length cut to 1 hour, it could have been a more interesting documentary, more akin to Moore's Sicko.
20 seconds into the movie on the opening title card:
"This is the story of a medical doctor and PhD biochemist who has discovered the genetic mechanism that can cure most human cancers.
The opening 30 minutes of this film is designed to thoroughly establish this fact—so the viewer can fully appreciate the events that follow it."
Warp wrote:
I tried to watch the film, but I got bored at about the 40-minute mark
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Warp wrote:
My problem was the implied conspiracy theory that the FDA is suppressing a cure for cancer.
As I said, there is no conspiracy theory. Really, you should watch it. I don't think you understand what it is about.
It is about them trying to suppress this specific method (versus a specific doctor) and failing. Obviously they cannot contain information free to the public.
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As I said, I would take the time to watch it...especially before making those statements. Mostly because what you said is irrelevant to what the movie is actually about. There is no conspiracy involved here to be honest. As Kitsune said, the FDA doesn't care about human lives. They make that blatantly obvious...which you would know if you watched the video.
Maybe a good alternative would be to visit the official site first:
http://burzynskimovie.com/
If you still don't want to watch, that is understandable from your perspective, but in my humble opinion, the mere less than 2 hour movie is really worth the time spent listening. =)
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I sincerely recommend watching the following documentary:
http://vimeo.com/24821365
It is only available to watch for free for a limited amount of time. It is extremely worth the time it takes to watch, and I'd like to hear your thoughts because a majority of you are highly intelligent. I believe it could provide a good community discussion.
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Has anyone pinned the issue about repeated input after loading a savestate? It's still virtually impossible to make something that doesn't desync, unless its a 2D game.
Edit: Do people like skid_au even realize this bug exists?
