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Well, actually, now that I think about it, I don't think I watched the entire thing. So maybe one or both of them would've desynched at some point. But it DID work for a little while. Or maybe I'm a lunatic. It's difficult to say.
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Nach wrote:
You can view either one in Snes9x, not just both at the same time.
You could just open two windows, load up the .smv in each, and synch them. That's what I did. I just activated the "File" menu to pause so that one could catch up.
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The author's comments wrote:
The top of the waterfall has just a touch, but somehow, this allowed me to jump to the higher platform which I had never seen before. Unfortunately, this put me at the floating island a little too soon, so it really didn't save much time (but it did a little). If anyone would care to further explore this, I would like to know exactly how it works.
It's been mentioned, but I don't know why or how it works. I don't think it has to do with lag, since it happens semi-frequently with only one player. Also, Genisto did it once in his one-player run.
Edit: Watched most of it. Will watch the rest later. It seems like you could have benefited from having player 2 (LANCE) pick up Laser in Jungle. Fire is bloody slow, and everyone knows it sucks. I have to think that Laser x 2 would make Base1 go faster, especially the last circle-thing you have to destroy before the boss (Edit 2: Never mind about the laser thing. But would another weapon be faster than fire and not produce lag?). Also, in Waterfall, Base2 and Snowfield (and maybe later levels), after you destory the boss, you weren't as close as possible to the exit that leads to the next level. Consequently, after losing control, the computer had to move your players a few steps forward. If that makes any sense, would it be faster to get as close as possible to the exit before losing control, or does that not make a difference in the time?
I would vote no if this was one player, even if it was faster than the currently published run, because of not taking advantage of the scrolling/jumping glitches in Waterfall. However, since this is a 2-player run, I don't know if those glitches will work or not. So, in lieu of that and the fact that I haven't watched the whole thing, I will refrain from voting.
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As a result of the retarded discussion going on in the SMB2 thread in the Workbench forum, I thought I'd spread the party this way. Since someone mentioned that they were going to try and improve this, for the love of God, please use this trick, or tell me why it doesn't work:
tmont, in October 2005, wrote:
In 2-3, the guy who did this run didn't pick up an enemy until he was like halfway across the overworld (after you go up the ladder). The crazy ladder thing that he does might screw this up, but if you move to the right of the ladder before ascending it, that will trigger the beezos to start moving. So when you get to the top, one is waiting for you to pick up. Of course, you might get there too soon since you shoot up the ladder so fast, but I think it could work out.
If that doesn't make sense, watch the speedrun, or read this:
Facts
-There is a ladder at the beginning of level 2-3 (you're underground).
-After you ascend the ladder, there are beezos (flying bugs, or something) flying around in the overworld.
-Toad runs faster when he carries an enemy.
The Problem
-Toad cannot immediately pick up a beezo, in order to run fast, because they are not flying at his level after he ascends the ladder and gets to the overworld.
The Resolution
-Have Toad move to the right (starboard) of the ladder before he ascends it.
-Go up the ladder.
-A beezo will swoop down right next to Toad, at ground level.
-Pick up the beezo.
-Run like hell.
It's pissing me off that I'm supposed to be watching a movie that pushes the limits of what is humanly possible, and yet I have played the first five seconds of level 2-3 faster than what is supposed to be perfect hundreds of times on a console in real time. Not that I'm against "surprise" submissions, but when it's already been stated that there are faster way to do things, "surprise" submissions omitting these already known tricks are sometimes a disappointment. To avoid this slight disappointment (don't get me wrong, I like the new movie) in the future, I'm bumping this thread.
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Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I didn't feel like creating a new one. My console run of Contra just got put up at SDA, and I watched it for the first time in a couple weeks, and it reminded me of some things. There are some fairly easily implemented improvements to this run that will shave off a few seconds. All of them come in Waterfall.
There is a glitch that I presume has to do with the way the screen scrolls vertically, where Bill or Lance (I love those names) can jump "higher" than they can normally, meaning they can reach ledges that they shouldn't be able to reach with their normal jumping height. Since the programmers inexplicably made it so that Bill and Lance always jump the same height and move at the same speed, that means that you will have to make two less jumps, which translates to less time. The guy who made this movie actually did it once, but later in the level. Here's the locations (that I know of):
There might be more places to do it than that, but those are the two that I accidentally did on a console numerous times. Sorry if this was already posted somewhere; I did a search and there wasn't much in the way of relevant Contra discussion. Anyway, I don't know if this is already known, but if someone wanted to improve this, this would be something to consider.
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Very good, although 2-3 could've been faster had you heeded this post. 3-1 was particularly brilliant. I guess this movie means it's not possible to kill Mouser with a star in 1-3?
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Highness wrote:
Here is another aspect for HTTP download... Perhaps a user should need to do something in order to get the previligue to download from direct http? Like you have to submit a movie that get's published or something? Well.. That can be hard. But I'm just juggling ideas here. Perhaps it can evolve into something more exclusive and better?
That's kind of odd. If you're going to provide a HTTP download, it should be available to everyone. Especially since the people who make the movies probably already have whatever they want (the FCM, SMV, etc.), and don't need a faster download.
It needs to have some sort of queue system anyways, since it would be pretty tough to have many users download at the same time. And the speeds would be worse for them as well..
Maybe you could put the AVIs up on your server a week or two after the submission is published. That way, anyone who wants it immediately can get it through the torrent while there are lots of seeds (if the movie is popular). Then, after a period of time where the downloads begin to slow, you could make it available through HTTP instead of torrent, and seeding won't be a problem (if I'm correctly understanding what you're trying to do with this server). I think it's a good idea if it will eliminate the problem of no/little seeding. SDA occasionally does the same kind of thing with runs they know will be popular, and will yield many downloads in a short period of time.
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tmont wrote:
Did I count the number of moves wrong, or is the movements of the hammer bro not as manipulatable (is that a word?) as I hoped?
I counted the number of moves wrong. Never mind. It takes five moves to get the hammer bro where you need him to be, and there's three levels, so you would indeed have to die twice.
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JXQ wrote:
However, I tested an idea on 2-3 that saves a lot of time (by passing through bricks), and I believe it could be optimized enough to faster than the death-including alternative.
Are you talking about the bricks that form that "stairway" at the end of the level? I've actually gone through those when I was playing on a console (not on purpose). Can you actually enter the pipe even though the bricks are on top of it (e.g. without using the turtle shell to break the bricks)? Because that would be pretty sweet to see.
And I don't mean to be annoying, but would you mind elaborating on why you can't avoid the hammer bro in world 1? I was actually curious about this when I was working on my abandoned run. Did I count the number of moves wrong, or is the movements of the hammer bro not as manipulatable (is that a word?) as I hoped?
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JXQ wrote:
It's a little faster to enter a level and die than fight a hammer brother - I'll mess around with this (unless I can think of a spot that saves more time than this in a level somewhere, which is doubtful).
Probably 1-1, 1-3 or 1-4 lead to the quickest death. You have to travel the least on the overworld map to get to 1-1 and 1-3.
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
But not with some trick involving the item menu?
I don't know what that means, so I imagine the answer is no, as I just stood there while the hammer bro trotted past me after I beat the fortress. I've actually done this a couple times, not on purpose.
Edit: Never mind. Since the hammer bros. move only when you've either beaten a level or died, and the hammer bro is four movements away from the intersection, and there are only three levels before the intersection, it won't make it there in time. If there is a quick way to die that takes less time than defeating a hammer bro, you could avoid him, providing there is a way to completely manipulate which direction the hammer bros. move.
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nitsuja wrote:
Well, I submitted a run of it. But, I don't know. I can see the point that it seems like way too convenient a bug, it's something that would obviously be in use constantly instead of only in certain situations, and it doesn't break the game as much as in something like Zelda II so it's really not that drastically different anyway. Plus, the SNES version has enough extra delays to cancel out the time gained, so the resulting time won't be that impressive either.
In all honesty, I enjoyed the SNES version much more than the NES version. It was a nice diversion from the normal physics of Mario. And it looked funny.
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JXQ wrote:
so I don't think I'll be able to avoid World 1's Hammer Bro
I was kind of working on this run for a console, but as usual, I got bored after I got through world 4. Anyway, it is possible to avoid the hammer bro. in world 1. What happened was right after the lock disappeared after beating the fortress, the hammer bro moved past the place where the door was, and consequently moved out of my path. I'm not sure if the hammer bro can move that far if you don't die, but it is possible to avoid the hammer bro in world 1.
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I like stats, too. I thought they were cool to see, even if they aren't useful. Also, the Crystalis run up on SDA doesn't use the wild warp, so those two runs can't be compared (fairly, anyway). If you really want something to compare TAS Crystalis run to, I did a crappy run a while ago of Crystalis using the wild warp in about an hour (3600 seconds). It's not hosted anywhere; I just did it for fun.
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Actually, as far as I can tell, none of your comments are clearly tongue-in-cheek; they're mostly just mean. I didn't mean to imply that you claimed that you were the greatest Sonic the Hedgehog player in the world, I was just reading your earlier posts (and others'), and apparently you're pretty damn good. It sounds like you think that gives you the right to be a dick, and to harass JXQ about his own Sonic the Hedgehog playing, when it shouldn't. I haven't been around here (on the forums) all that long, but I would guess that this "curse" of never finishing this run comes from the rabid antagonism emanating in this topic. I wouldn't want to finish the run either if I was being assaulted by others because of a damn video game.
I hope I found that clue you were talking about.
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xebra wrote:
If he did, surely I would ridicule him.
Judging from what you said earlier (and edited for grammar), "I insulted the run, you insulted the man," I would think that you now have a personal vendetta with JXQ, since now you want to ridicule the man. Which, in your own words, is quite lame, considering the fact that we're talking about a blue hedgehog. Just because you might be the best Sonic the Hedgehog player in the world gives you no right to be a dick.
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That's not a glitch: sometimes the wisemen just help you out when times are rough. And you only net like 12 MP, since using Telepathy costs 8, and they only give you 20 or something. Also, I'm not sure if they'll hook you up the first time you use the spell, either; you might have to use it a couple of times before they realize your dire need, which, if true, would probably not be faster than going to an inn or using a magic ring. But it is something to consider...
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There's also the "super-black-and-white" mushroom houses, where you get special items, like the anchor or the cloud (and probably other cool stuff, too). I only know two levels where it's possible to get them: getting (nearly) all coins in 1-4 and getting all the coins (even ones resulting from the POW) in 2-2 (I think it's 2-2). They might be helpful, but at the very least, they look cool on the overworld map. And where it doesn't slow you down (i.e. get in your way on the overworld) it might be cool to make the coin ships appear (how to accomplish this was explained in another thread, I think; multiples of 11 and stuff).
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Maybe. But anyway, Wizzrobes, or even Darknuts for that matter, aren't completely random, since the orange Wizzrobes will always end up either in line or perpendicular to Link (if I recall correctly). And the Darknuts (the blue ones more so) turn towards you when you try to hit them, to a certain extent. So there is a method to their madness, and it's not all pure randomness determining their paths.
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nitsuja wrote:
RT-55J wrote:
I remember being able to consistantly "manipulate luck" in real time so I just walk through a room full of Wizzarobe thingies... so... the randomness generator sucks (and I think my spelling is).
Isn't that just you getting lucky? Or, possibly it's not all that lucky and in fact quite likely to happen. The random generator doesn't have to suck for either of those to be the case. Unless you were counting steps or timing (or something like that) and using that as a reference to make the Wizzrobes behave a certain way, which I doubt.
I think he was just saying that the Wizzrobes seem to act in a predictable way, so their randomness isn't really that "random," which is why he could manipulate them so easily. Or something.
There might be more places to do it than that, but those are the two that I accidentally did on a console numerous times. Sorry if this was already posted somewhere; I did a search and there wasn't much in the way of relevant Contra discussion. Anyway, I don't know if this is already known, but if someone wanted to improve this, this would be something to consider.