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on the editable by anyone: yeah i see your point now. that is abusable and requiring an account is probs a good idea
about creating game pages: i know i can ask someone who has authority to do that, and unfortunately what if the person is not there? what if i'm new and don't know who's in charge? i feel like that adds a lot of friction. i'd like to be able to just do it
about miraheze: i agree. that's why i want to host stuff on tasvideos too especially with the miraheze outages and uncertainty. and we are taking it from a power user perspective, the wiki is definitely not as easy to use from a casual user perspective and i feel like that limits stuff a lot
for the rejected submission part: thats why i like dwango's thing, it could reuse a lot of infrastructure. while i can search for a rejection on the site and on google, it very much feels like a second class citizen with only a forum thread
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KusogeMan wrote:
This is basically my experience with almost everything i TASed and it's aggravated by the verification movie debacle and bizarre rulesets which tell me what is and isn't valid in the dead game I put my time into. Nowadays i want to help Judges get through the stuff faster but I don't want be part of the Staff because you prioritize site rules to the game's communities rules and judgements. All accomodations are RULE BREAKING and will effectively stop people from publishing pikmin 2, mario kart TASes and so on.
hard agree
EDIT: removed the rest of this post, its offtopic and dont like how it came off
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i'm gonna make some suggestions in this post about how we could move towards dwangoac's proposal with the infrastructure we already have, without suggesting overly big changes
dwangoAC wrote:
I feel strongly, and have felt for a long time, that we need ways for communities to be self-regulating with their own community categories that meet their needs, such as the fighting game folks or individual communities like Celeste. If we give them a home similar to a speedrun.com page where they can make categories and hash though their own requirements, they'll do a lot of the hard work without requiring a huge amount of staff oversight. Encoders would continue and expand as needed, publishers would continue to handle descriptions and other aspects of promoted runs, and judges would primarily move into curator roles focused on highlighting runs with far less frequent adjudication.
[... description of submission system ...]
i really like the submission proposal of dwangoac post the most in this thread.
especially the promotion system going from hidden > visible > synced > published
going further on it why not make visible userfiles and sync files use the same infrastructure we have?
just like we do today when submitting a text, we make a youtube encode already, and write a descrption about the run .
let's use what tasers already make and use it more prominently. they already mostly do it anyways
when someone searches up a "synced" userfile it would put this on their screen (just make it clear its not published)
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please make game wiki pages editable by anyone
no one wants to make an account to edit a page if this is their first interaction with the site
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i feel like game pages are very useless
i dont like that only admins can make game pages, what if i have a new game but didnt finish a tas yet/no tas tools? the game page literally cannot exist at the time it could be the most useful, in the exploration phase of a game
https://miraheze.org/ lets anyone create a wiki for a thing, lets do the same for the game page, and lets let anyone who wantcreate game page, wiki pages, subpages pages and let them do stuff
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RetroEdit wrote:
this game explicitly labels you a Cheater as a result of using the Konami Code
it does not : every achievement title can be freely put as a subtitle to your name (here ???? because i didn't change it), and changing your title is necessary to get one achievement.
i just chose to put the Cheater achievement title as my title for the memes
quoting the creator:
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I asked Tukkun, the creator, whether he thinks he consider gift codes / konami codes a cheat, and if are they legitimate to use in speedruns or TASes of the game:
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feos wrote:
Do you have any suggestions on how exactly the rules could be reworded to include your case, while also not turning into "anything goes"? How can we universally distinguish in all games cheats that are allowed in this game, from those that are not?
I think the current system may be unappropriate in this case. I think it has to be more on a case by case basis. As i understand this came up on this game specifically so maybe i could suggest adding a ruling to go more case by case when there is detail like this, and leave it to the judge to decide
I can give more details on this case and why I think it needs different handling:
the konami code used is a satirical thing making fun of actual cheat codes, the resources it gives are intentionally minor, like it doesnt save more than a second. i still do it because there is nothing else to do and it is technically faster.
as for the other codes: one is from the game directly and another is prominent in the sidebar, both can be used only once and again, give minor resources that only save minimal time.
(If needed i can ask the creator of the game for his opinion on whether konami & gift codes are a cheat, since he is still active)
EDIT: removed repeated part since its not relevant
When you are in achievement screen there is a bar that lights up as soon as you do the first input of the konami, it goes up for each correct input and resets if you fail: https://i.imgur.com/QH08UYQ.png
so just pressing the arrows keys (which you do when navigating the achivements menu) can make you input the first part by accident, and you get the visual feedback instantly so you could figure it out from there
it has direct discoverability in game
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there is only one actual cheat, it's directly in the game when you go to options: the enable cheats button https://i.imgur.com/eDn45uh.png
this is not something that we ban, more so that we cant use it at all (in speedrun mode), and even if we could it just allows you to change everything so it would be pointless in a speedrun
(it also displays a big CHEAT SAVEFILE warning on the file so its obvious when someone used it)
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feos wrote:
xy2_ wrote:
for konami (and gift codes), we don't consider it a cheat. both are allowed in speedruns.
this is because it's intended to be done in the game, and has achievements related to it (see the secrets achievements section) which is needed for completion. both are intentionally balanced:
- konami can be done only once per level, and gives a minor 10% boost. it can't be spammed to cheat your way out and get more levels
- the two gift codes can only be used once and give a minor amount of resources
why do i say this isn't a cheat? beacuse we have actual cheat mechanics in the game:
https://i.imgur.com/8O3LlcR.png -> requires clicking an enable cheats button, irreversible
this leads you to a cheat menu https://i.imgur.com/NlS0yjn.png, and the savefile permanently has a CHEAT SAVEFILE banner plastered across
in my opinion a run using these kinds of cheats would not be real
Does the game tell you about those codes that this movie uses, in any official and clear way?
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feos wrote:
Does the 100% speedrun even exist?
no one has made one as far as i know
feos wrote:
Also why doesn't this game have a speedrun.com entry?
the community is small, so we just use discord, pretty much only two people speedrun the game 😭
EDIT: they didn't get accepted on speedrun.com, and i guess didn't try again since https://i.imgur.com/3C3wc9u.png
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feos wrote:
Is there any speedrun page for all this? I found nothing on SRC.
there are a few speedruns on youtube, we track them on the discord since it's easier, you can find them on youtube https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=anti+idle+speedrun
the main category at the moment is c rank c, where we define the end as completing a quest that require doing a number of other quests up to the c rank level, the speedrun i linked above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txog-U8j8Bc) is an example of this
feos wrote:
What is a speedrun savefile?
it's a mode in the game intended for speedrunners:https://i.imgur.com/okwg0L3.png,
it makes the game have a bit less annoyances: by removing the tutorial, and unlocks time gated achievements and tutorial achivement right away, as well as adds a timer in the top right of the screen. konami is allowed
i don't use it in the TAS as it's not available as soon as you start (requires reaching level 1000 in a normal savefile), so it would require sram
and i also wanted to see what could be done while the tutorial was active
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feos wrote:
If "all achievements" requires several months of non-stop play, that doesn't sound like a good full completion definition.
Sorry, I didn't explain this very well: the several months of play is for doing all ascensions
for all achievements, most are fast to do and can be done within 24 hours, the only problematic ones are the timewall achievements which require playing for 28 days
Time Badly Spent Play for 2,419,200 seconds (28 days)!
But this only applies in a normal savefile, in a speedrun savefile all timewall achievements are earned automatically eien86 wrote:
But with regards to this particular movie. You've defined "First ascension" as your target goal, which is acceptable under the "Alternative" category. However, it seems the use of the Konami code is not really unconditionally necessary to achieve that goal, is it?
no it is not necessary, but it is in the game and, as i argue it is not a cheat, so i'm using it to go faster
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there is no defined completition point, rather there is a bunch of stuff to do, but you don't get an end nor a credits screen for doing it. most completion points are defined by the community
part of doing everything would be getting 100% achievements
it's also more complicated, because recently the community discovered an incomplete new achievement system in the source code, called "omega achievements", and made it work as most of it was already kind of working, so a new completion point is getting all of those achievements
here the completion i chose was getting the first ascension. i chose this objective for the tas as the community was interested to see just how fast we could do it from starting the game
but this is a fake end screen as you can just continue. there are three different types of ascensions of varying difficulties which give you points that unlock powerups in the game, and "completing" ascensions means getting enough ascention points to unlock everything (which can take around 9000 ascensions and takes on the order of months of full time play)
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yes, but it is faster to use it
this is intended and used in speedruns often, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txog-U8j8Bc at 1:47 where the code is repeatedly used
what i mean to say is that it's an intended mechanic in my view, not a cheat code. anyone can use it in their normal playthrough, and it is even encouraged to do so, even in a non speedrun setting. in casual play, impossible ascensions use the code at the start to take less time
my argument was that if the code was an unintended mechanic, it would not be balanced (as it is currently: once per level restriction, minor boost), and would not have a reference to it directly in the game:
we have the direct parallel in the game, where you can enable cheats, which is not intended to be legitimate and allows you to do anything without restriction
speaking of speedruns, the game has a speedrun mode made by the author of the game. in the run i linked above, which uses that mode, konami works like in the normal game. it is not disabled. but there is something else that is disabled, the "enable cheats" button: https://i.imgur.com/eDn45uh.png
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in this game, there is no real completion point as it's an idle game. so that means more so doing everything in the game
part of this needs getting 100% achievements, and the codes and konami are part of those achievements
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thanks, regarding these issues:
for konami (and gift codes), we don't consider it a cheat. both are allowed in speedruns.
this is because it's intended to be done in the game, and has achievements related to it (see the secrets achievements section) which is needed for completion. both are intentionally balanced:
- konami can be done only once per level, and gives a minor 10% boost. it can't be spammed to cheat your way out and get more levels
- the two gift codes can only be used once and give a minor amount of resources
why do i say this isn't a cheat? beacuse we have actual cheat mechanics in the game:
https://i.imgur.com/8O3LlcR.png -> requires clicking an enable cheats button, irreversible
this leads you to a cheat menu https://i.imgur.com/NlS0yjn.png, and the savefile permanently has a CHEAT SAVEFILE banner plastered across
in my opinion a run using these kinds of cheats would not be real
sorry for not explaining this 😅
for the optimization, i agree the start isn't optimized. i know about typing multiple keys at once and the existing tools to do that, i didn't bother at the start because no matter how fast i get the achievements, the exp for the first four levels (until 0:50 in the encode) is hardcoded and can't be changed in any way, so getting it faster doesn't change the total time
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As a former active user, I think the site could benefit from fostering a stronger sense of community while keeping its status on being an archive. It would be great to see a shift away from a more confrontational or judgmental atmosphere, and instead create a welcoming environment that encourages collaboration and knowledge sharing
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I don't remember which ruffle version I used, can check if it's important
For syncing I used WSL2 ubuntu, same version as mcbobx, maybe the issue is with using ubuntu directly
For libtas I used a nightly for making it https://ci.appveyor.com/project/clementgallet/libtas/builds/50045924, but only for recording sake, because it fixed a crash when loading savestate, so it should sync on a stable libtas version
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please make game wiki pages editable by anyone
no one wants to make an account to edit a page if this is their first interaction with the site
------------------------
i feel like game pages are very useless
i dont like that only admins can make game pages, what if i have a new game but didnt finish a tas yet/no tas tools? the game page literally cannot exist at the time it could be the most useful, in the exploration phase of a game
https://miraheze.org/ lets anyone create a wiki for a thing, lets do the same for the game page, and lets let anyone who wantcreate game page, wiki pages, subpages pages and let them do stuff
