Posts for zaphod77


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I have more info about the RNG for pieces and powerups, fo those who want to tas. The 1000 piece sequence is generated at game start. Every piece the rng is also called to see what powerup it would have. The powerup depends on the height of the stack, ignoring the outer six columns. every so many frames of active playtime when nut using a powerup item, the game will introduce a new powerup. So by varying how long it takes to place your pieces, and where you place them, you can manipulate what powerups you get. Flicky and Satellite are the best powerups, and to max the game out quickly you want as many of them as you can get. Under TAS conditions it's easy to clear the screen with satellite, and make tetris bravos with flicky. Here's a start. Place the first six pieces such that the red meter fills just before the third piece hits the ground, and that it fills the second time just before the 6th piece hits the ground, and there's a tetris hole on the right. This will give you a flicky powerup in the I piece. This will get you from level 0 to 1, and allows you to make at least 2 tetris bravos, and maybe three under TAS conditions. 2 is doable RTA.
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That is a truly hilarious use of ends input early. :)
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Actually, the space invaders syndrome doesn't matter. even if the bullet can't appear, you will still get the rank increase! also note that preventing enemy shots by being too close to them itself increases rank, though it may not matter if the autofire is jacked to the max.
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Still waiting on bloxeed. here's a decent RTA superplay to give you an idea on what tricks you need to max it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5gA1DMn2Dg&t=18s The slow play speed for much of the tas before level 15 is to manipulate the powerups, which are different depending on which pieces get them. It's clearly improvable under TAS conditions (get more flickys, get more bravos at 10x points), and can probably be maxed out sub 10 minutes. i recommend using the japanese rom though, because it allows every frame autofire by alternating two rotation buttons, as opposed to that version, which only provides 1 button, allowing firing every other frame.
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This is awesome. I was always wondering if it was possible to avoid waking Crateria. seems it's possible after all. :) I still want to see someone avoid waking Crateria RTA.
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glad this was fixed. in case anyone else doesn't realize, this is orders of magnitude more difficult to do than it looks. try yourself in real time. :)
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Anyone who's actually played this know the PAIN of the random crushers, many of which can only be passed with a bit of luck. thisis impressive, and worthy of moons. even without the music.
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to actually do this as fast as possible, you need to maximize goal per piece on average. Back to back tetris (a tetris followed by another tetris) grants a positively HUGE amount of goal, and i believe more of them will speed up later levels. Additionally, t-spinning should preserve back to back. I agree that the play control of this version may be lacking, but i'm just not impressed, and think it can be routed better.
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well i want ones that literally skip the entire game completely to end up in a separate branch from ones like the one this obsoleted. :) you got a better suggestion? very few other movies have zero gameplay. :)
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I think this is a new type of branch. 0% :) 0% means that literally all gameplay is skipped. This allows normal game end glitches, that are triggered at a later point in the game than right at the start to not be obsoleted (and the one that this obsoleted is pretty awesome).
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There is up to one supershot powerup per stage. some do not have any, though (they will either give a smart bomb, or just a third spinny thing). Note that collecting the double shot does not prevent you from collecting the supershot powerup if you stall. So on stage 1 you can collect both the double shot and a supershot if you stall enough (but it may lose too much time). but on stages where none are collected, IF a supershot powerup is available on the stage, a small stall to get it may be worthwhile. you can get also supershot powerups by manipulating one during the bonus stage. but only the first one collected counts. this was proven in the existing video. also, if you die with no supershots, you will be given one on your next life. This may be of use during a boss fight if you run out of super shots. it is never possibly any use otherwise, because you will have manipulated one out of the chance stage. super shots take a long time to fire, so i believe they are only worthwhile when used on stuff that becomes invulnerable to normal shots but not to them. (like turrets) I could be wrong, though. You can have four by the time of the first turret boss if you delay enough on all three levels. this lets you use one on each turret. but it may be faster to not stall on level 1, and take out one with normal shots, taking turns between supershots. you should easily get back to four without much delay for second turret boss. again you can use four, but also test using only three to see if it's faster. I'm pretty sure it's possible to get at least four by each turret boss. i also believe that it may help to use some on the final boss and tag it just before the eye closes. I'm positive that TAS can be improved, and that super shots are the key. You can NOT destroy all three spaceships with one super shot, in my experience. At most one will explode, and they are near enough to you that normal shots are faster overall i think. but this sort of stuff needs to be tested. super shots should be tested against bosses to see when they save time.
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I believe maximum score can be a valid goal in the following cases. 1) game has no infinite leech and has a kill screen. in this case, score by reaching the kill screen at all, then by score, then by time. THis is what the Bongo TAS does. it reaches the kill screen, scoring as much as believed possible. If someone can reach a later screen and score more, that obsoletes regardless of time. if same screen is reached, greater score obsoletes regardless of time. If same score and screen are reached, and time is faster, this obsoletes. simple rules. Donkey Kong arcade is the same way. there's a kill screen, and limited live so infinite leach is not possible. so it can be score attacked. The RTA competition for this game is a score attack that reaches kill screen. TAS can certainly do better with luck manipulation (for more points from hammer smashes), better reflexes, and more point pressing. lose all but one life on the screen that gives the most points. If not entertaining enough, this is vaultable. If it's entertaining it goes to moons. 2) alternatively, if the game has an end, and it cannot be counterstopped, and infinite leech is not possible, maximum score while beating the game is a valid goal. it may or may not be entertaining. I'm not sure if such a game should be vaultable. This is often same as 100%. Endless games are not valid for max score, IMHO. Games where infinite leech is possible are also not valid for max score. I'd personally rule that 1 and 2 have it as valid goal, but only 1 is vaultable, with 2 as a moon if sufficiently entertaining. Note that for games that DO have the ability to counterstop, fastest counterstop is a valid goal that is well defined. Sega Tetris (any of the arcade versions) is the classic example. But superhuman skill is not required to do it for this game. It is entertaining and fast if you are trying to max score only. Should such a TAS be vaultable? I'm not sure. It should be non trivial, and show superhuman skill or luck manipulation. If so, i'd consider it for vault if it's not entertaining.
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Here are things that were commonly done on the real c64. 1) snapshot carts. this converted a protected game to either a single or dual file backup copy of the game. this didn't always work, but when it did you get something that loads much faster than the original usually. they also have a bonus of setting the rng to a known state. These are non legit, but were applied to original disks and tapes. you can perfect this trick using a c64 emulator. this is legit because a god could freeze the game at the exact right time. using emulator specific features, i can TAS the freezing process. :) but if the freeze button was pressed at the exact right time, identical results can be created on real hardware. Of course many games don't require such precision to freeze properly, such as Mr. Do. (you just wait for the static title screen and press the freeze button.) 2) tape to disk transfers. there were c64 side utilities that could do this. novaload in particular was often converted this way. with an added fast loader, again it could load faster. Again there are PC side tools to do this faster, but this is something that WAS done on the real system. so we have some questions. 1) is attaching a speeder cart (commonly done with a real machine at the time) acceptable for speeding up load times? The standard available carts for NTSC are Epyx Fast Load, and AR 5.0. europe has a much greater variety. I vote yes, when it helps. 2) is using freezer snapshots okay provided it was done with an original? if so this can significantly decrease loading time. I vote yes, provided that it was done from an original, and it was done at the earliest possible safe freeze point. 3) is crunching said snapshot okay? this can be (and was often) done on the real c64, to create a smaller file, at the expense of decrunching time. generally, this is faster to get to the title screen. I believe yes, and that it's okay to use the PC side tool, because c64 side tools existed that could do the same thing. but it's understandable to rule that only c64 side tools can be used. 4) is using the vorpal utility disk to convert said freezer snapshot, along with the vorpal loader okay? this creates a .g64 image that would work on real unmodified hardware, if written back. This image will load at 25 times the speed of the original file. I would again say yes. 5) is saving an action replay snapshot in warp*25 format (equivalent to vorpal) okay? these again can be made to boot without the cart i think, but can boot easier with the cart. again .g64 image is required, and it's doable on the real computer. again this is a 25X speedup compared to the original loading time of the snapshot. I say maybe? 6) is using tape to disk transfers okay? Again i say yes, provided the game actually works and loads faster this way (possibly with the help of a cart speeder) 7) is memory injection okay? I'd say no, because it cannot be done on real hardware of the time period. easyflash and/or backbit can sorta do this now, but they were not available during the commercial lifetime of the system. 8) is non true drive emulation okay? again, no, because you can't do it on real hardware. 9) if it ever gets emulated, is using a sd2iec+easyflash jiffydos cart okay? If it is ever emulated, it provides a 20x speedup. Maybe. but it's unlikely to ever get emulated. 10) are REU loads okay? this IS emulated, so if the above tricks are okay, then super fast loading the onefile from an REU should also be okay, as that is doable on period hardware.
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TO the best of our understanding there is a finite amount of ponts available in the game, and a specific level is the kill screen. this makes maximum score a valid goal. If someone finds a way past this screen (or past the previos one without bonus skip) but discovers that a later screen is deadly, then a tas that goes to that screen should obsolete this. a tas that scores more than this one and reaches the same screen should also obsolete it. Any% (reaching killscreen as fast as possible) is not likely to be any more entertaining at all, and the extra scoring tricks add to the entertainment. Additionally, even reaching the current kill screen is not trivial. I think this is definitely a valid TAS. If it is discovered that there is no kill screen, than a tas should go until there is no new content and no new difficulty increase, and obsolete this. But i see no danger of that happening. No one has been able to beat 7-6 without bonus, and no one has been able to beat 7-7 without it either because it's not possible to get bonus on two levels in a row. it seems absolute. but feel free to work on this. :) it LOOKS like you should be able to back jump on the starting platform of 7-7 and let the dino pass under, because it seems to start sunk into the floor, but i'm guessing this doesn't actually work.
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This skips the whole darn game. :) There was one other TAS that skipped close to that much. it was the one where you could manipulate the game ending item to be right by the start and just blindly dig it up. Maybe there should be a "skips 99% of the gameplay or more" tag? :)
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btw, if any duck other than the last one is missed, the game delays while it scoots the hit indicators over, playing a cute little sound. this is unlikely to ever get made back in better RNG by missing an earlier duck, because of the number of frames the sound effects lasts and delays the end of round. yes this means that there is an automatic delay for letting duck 9 fly away, because the hit indicator for duck 10 will be scooted to the left.
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anything that is not revealed with cursory testing probably doesn't matter. that example of the enemies moving slower on ntsc, for example is easily revealed. flickering that's not present on the other shows up quite easily. bubble bobble intro is the same issue. it drops to roughly half speed. this is not rocket science. :) really arcane "only possible under TAS conditions with one video system" stuff is probably fair game. But if there are issues a normal player would notice, then you need to use the correct standard. there is also a system to do perfect freezes of the game, to set up for direct ram injection. it's a royal pain, but i know how to do it. you need to set a breakpoint at the load address of the game, then set up a loop elsewhere in memory and resume there, then freeze, then change the loop to point back to the start address. this technique will usually create a single load that can be direct injected. but again you can't do this on real hardware. also, there is an NTSC version of AR v5.0. i'm not sure if it uses ramload, though (which is the ultra fast loading solution that spools entire tracks into the cart ram so they can load fast interleave independent). there is no NTSC ar 6.0 but the 5.0 ROM is commonly available. While nothing about the .g64 format precludes use of kernal load, generally stuff that uses kernal load is compatible with .d64 format, so that's what it's usually found on, to save space. that's why i said a fastload cart will rarely speed up a g64 significantly. There are exceptions. An example of a disk original on .g64 that is significantly sped up by jiffyDOS is Encounter. The g64 format is required to store the twin sector (one sector is stored twice on disk with different values in it) to pass the copy protection, but once that's passed, it block reads the main program into memory one sector at a time with standard block read code, which fastload does not accelerate, but JiffyDOS does. No cart speeder that I know of accelerates block read. But licensing restrictions are an issue for JiffyDOS, even though the roms can be obtained. The licensing issue prohibits jiffyDOS. While every other speeder cost money as well, JiffyDOS is still being actively sold new. That's the issue. for US, FastLoad was THE standard cart speeder, and it was EVERYWHERE. The AR cart was often cloned, and is considered a standard speeder. there are also other aftermarket ROMs with speeders that are NOT JiffyDOS, but they tend to have compatibility issues. examples EXOS Beast System (pretty much same as EXOS) 64'er ROM 1514 Flash (earlier than diffydos, undumped as far as I know) StarDOS (undumped, as far as I know, faster than 1541 flash) Only the last two ever made it to the usa, and they were not common.
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yeah. it' really complicated. The general rule is use what's faster, i'd say. When the PAL and NTSC programs are entirely dfifferent (say, bionic commando, and others) you have to play the game in the right reigon, because the other region got a totally different version. This is a relatively rare case. If there are different versions, compare pal version on PAL with NTSC version on NTSC. Official releases by software publishers only. Run whichever's faster (usually NTSC) When there is on version if the game is glitch free on NTSC, that should be used, with PAL only being used if NTSC doesn't work right. So games must be tested on both. The only real question is speeder carts. They do not affect gameplay of single loads. they can make multiloads play faster, for obvious reasons. For RTA it's a non issue as they time from game start. but TAS times from poweron. So the main dilemma is what, if any speeders should be allowed? Possible options. 1) JIffyDOS allowed if compatible withe the game and it loads from disk. This ROM replacement is highly compatible, was very commonly used in real life, and will lower TAS time of nearly ANY disk game. It removes tape compatibility though. True Drive emulation required. 2) speeder carts allowed, but aftermarket roms (like JiffyDOS) not. this will generally give a 5x speedup in loading, but cannot accelerate block reads, so many games will still load really slow. 3) non true drive emulation allowed. When this works, it gives a super fast load time that cannot be obtained on real hardware. But in the case of a single load, it vastly speeds up time to game start to console levels. The same on multiload actually affects gameplay. so it should not be allowed. 4) no speeders beyond ones programmed into the game itself. this is the easiest to police, but often causes horrible load times. argument for jiffydos/carts is that they were very commonly used in real life, and thus are valid peripherals. argument against is they were not first party peripherals like the 1541 disk drive. argument for non true drive emulation is minimum downtime. argument against is can never be replicated on real hardware. also note that there's a standard sdcard solution to run a limited subset of .d64 images. used together with jjiffydos, this is a very fast loading platform on real hardware, but not sure if it's emulated. It's generally 20x faster than stock 1541 drive speeds. And yes, tape/disk/cart versions can be different. only the disk version of lode runner has all the levels. Frogger had different cart/disk versions. and TAPE version of Indiana jones is single load, but disk is a multiload. but both ARE the same game! multiload tape games are horrid and should almost NEVER be TASed. they are usually sloppy conversions from disk. the example given with enemies slower on NTSC vs PAL is an example of a glitch that would preclude the game being ran NTSC, IMHO.
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btw, this game WAS released on disk. grab the cosmi collection. (i's a few disk images, and one of them has forbidden forest on it) or disk version 1 from gamebase originals collection. load it with LOAD"FF",8 RUN
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Well the default system has at best a datasette. the disk drive didn't even come with the system. So all that worked by default is tapes and carts. There are a number of commodore peripherals, and 3rd party peripherals. The 1541 drive is the only other commodore peripheral that actually matters. Magic Voice was another commodore peripheral, but its' not needed to TAS anything. Every original 5 1/4 in disk is compatible with the 1541 disk drive. that makes it a standard peripheral, even though it didn't come with the system. there were other drives as well. the 1571 (for use with c128) and some official hard drives and 3 1/2 drives as well. It is valid for the same reason that the FDS disk drive is valid. it's a first party peripheral. it was also bundled with the sx-64 (a portable model). it wasn't exactly the same drive, but was close enough. Because software was protected, it couldn't be legit converted formats in general. Sometimes you could do format conversion, if tere was no protection. But generally you must crack it, and then it's no longer a legit game. Fastload carts and freezer carts were very common peripherals. None were actually made by Commodore, but they were very commonly available. There were also after market ROM replacements. JiffyDOS is the most notable one of those, which as for both the computer and the drive. It was highly compatible, and sped up loading. In the US, the major cart was the Epyx Fastload. most other carts that were for sale in the USA that weren't freezer carts were similar to this. the more advance carts were mainly found in europe. expert cartridge final cartridge, Datel Action Replay, etc. TAP images can never be sped up. they just work or not work. there is no tape accelerator cartridge. .g64 images can rarely be sped up by any means, as they tend to have their own fast loaders, but it's sometimes possible to speed them up with a fastload cart, and sometimes with jiffydos. .d64 images are much more likely to be possible to speed up with a fastload cartridge, and nearly ALL speed up with jiffydos. Many emulators also support non true drive emulation, which traps the kernal loads and makes them happen darn near instantly. When a game works with this, it loads orders of magnitude faster. Try, for example, necromancer. The .d64 with errors is an original disk image. It does not load significantly faster with fast load. it does load a bit faster with jiffydos. it loads amazingly fast with true drive emulation turned off. But this was an option that nobody ever actually had. The main argument for allowing speeders is that a) they were very commonly used on real hardware and b) they usually shave many minutes off of the total time. A game that takes 2 minutes to load from disks will often load in a fifth of that time with an epyx fastload cart. that knocks off 96 seconds of downtime, and doesn't modify the software. if the game is a multiload, even more time is saved. A speeder art does not modify the game in any way. it just replaces the standard load routines with something faster. This is why they are arguably allowed. Another argument for no true drive emulation. lets take Below the Root. turning off true drive emulation in vice causes screen transitions to be instant, instead of a second or two pause between every screen. this adds up. Again this is an unmodified original. sometime it's possible to get a single PRG version that IS an original. emulators tend to load these darn near instantly. Here's a special example. take a .TAP original of Sentinel from Synapse Software. use Final TAP to extract the main program from the tape (or any other c64 side novaload extractor program). it's a simple rle encoded binary that contains the entire game. it IS the original program. this file can be instaloaded and ran in an emulator. presto. at title screen in seconds. But, in most cases, a .prg is NOT an original piece of software. it's generally a onefile crack. only digital releases tend to be available that way. as a .prg or a .d64 with a .prg on it. Just be glad that there are many originals available for c64. Atari 8 bit, for example is much harder to get images for true original disks.
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i understand that argument, but the intended reigon is generally the final arbiter, when something else like graphical and/or music glitches doesn't give it away. playing a pal developed game that was never released as NTSC on c64 is like playing a pal game on an ntsc nes. it allows an unfairly fast time, because the PAL game is usually optimized for 50 fps. that's what i believe. Now fairly often a game does get released without changes. an example of this is c64 tetris. the music plays faster in the USA, but the game still plays fine (if a little faster) because it was officially released in the USA, the game should be tased on that video standard. the game was most definitely originally PAL, but it was released on NTSC in stores (i know, i bought it!). Not that this is a particularly good game to TAS. In fact, its' a horrible choice. :) At times the "play at hardest level" guidelines and "play at native video standard" guideline conflict for computer software. and that's not getting into bugfixed cracks (very common on this platform) Some pathological examples. 1) Exile. the only version that works on NTSC is a crack. in this case the original is not deliberately incompatible with NTSC, it just is. There are many such games that there is no original that functions on NTSC. 2) Encounter by novagen. the game actually runs fine on NTSC, except that all PAL originals are coded to deliberately crash on NTSC c64s. only the synapse software import runs fine. You need the .g64 of the synapse original to work on NTSC, as there is no other one that works. If the PAL one is fixed to work on NTSC, it's harder than the actual NTSC version, which was made easier to account for the frame rate difference (and broke the demo in the process. Me and another Hokuto Force member actually fixed this in our crack, which plays the demo at PAL difficulty, but the main game at NTSC difficulty.). So the hardest versions are cracks of PAL versions played on NTSC, since the original pal one won't start on NTSC. confused yet? :) Also, when a game has advanced graphical effects, the PAL version can be faster, because the NTSC version has to drop to 30 fps due to lack of CPU time. The simplest example of this is bubble bobble c64, where due to not enough cpu time the intro story screen runs at half rate on NTSC, and actually plays FASTER on PAL, though the main game is slower. Bu tusually it's a NTSC-FIX version that was never released commercially because it was a crack. This is a really thorny issue. Best is to ask what the intended region is, and if it was ever actually released in an NTSC territory. On the other hand, TAS don't compete with RTA runs. and TAS at 50 hz is no different for TAS at 60 hz in difficulty. so that's a pretty good argument for NTSC if the game runs on both. Also, there's the case of a PAL and NTSC version being totally different. in this cas,e you MUST play the PAL one on PAL, and the NTSC one on NTSC. for example there are two different bionic commando versions. they are in fact different programs, with different graphics and sound. a tAS of one would not obsolete the other. in this case, even if the PAL one runs on ntsc, it's wrong to play it, because it's not the game that the NTSC region got. If we allow that, then we have to allow TASing PAL nes games at 60hz, which is known to be NOT okay. also in the absence of a cart, loading times can be different. if say you don't have a 1541, but an MSD drive, and the game doesn't have a fastloader, it will load faster on the MSD drive. which means a faster completion time. on the other hand if the game has an optimized fastloader for 1541, and kernal fallack, it will load faster on the 1541 drive. Using a fastload cart on real hardware can get the game to load faster. you can even use .d64 images on real hardware with an SD2IEC. Or you can use a snapshot cart to get a game to load faster on real hardware. It's a huge can of worms, when there isn't a handy cart version. also theres' non true drive emulation. this can someimes work on original and get them to load lightning fast. but that's proably not okay... is it? Th real issue is that the c64 isn't really a fixed platform, even though it doesn't have any way to upgrade the base hardware. it can have peripherals. we have to declare a certain official hardware platform to be used fo TASing. Generally it's a final rev kernal c64 (yes there is more than one "OS" rom for the computer) with a 1541 drive and a datasette, with true device emulation, and either a cart, a .tap, a .d64, or a .g64 image. .t64 is right out (it loads way too fast, even though certain original swill convert to it). so are .prg and .p00, though they are the fastest loading in most modern emulators. and disk emulation still isn't fully accurate, which affects timing. The position of the disk platter before it's inserted affects load time. The exact RPM of the drive (not always even totally constant) affects speed. .TAP and .crt can be considered fully accurate. so here's my best compromise rules. If the game is not an arcade onversion, and has no covers of songs, and the game does not glithc more on NTSC< use that. if the game glitches more on one video standard, use the other. if the game is a conversion of an arcade, an the music is only right on one video standard, use that. SAme if the game covers a non game tune. use the one that plays hte song back at the right speed. But if it's an original tune, it's okay to run the pal on on NTSC, as long as it doesn't glitch, and there is no separate NTSC release that's tuned differently. A decision also needs to be made for sure on fast loaders, which someone trying to speedrun the game would certainly use on real hardware.
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Yeah there's no authoritative list that's definitely right. I do have a bit of knowledge. 1) if a game flickers on one video standard, and not on the other, the standard it does not flicker on is the intended one. 2) if the music plays atthe right speed (easy to determine for arcade onversions and covers of real tunes) then the video standard that plays the music properly is the one to use. 3) many games will play on both NTSC and PAL just fine. If the game got an NTSC release, that shousl be used. 4) in the absense of anything to the contrary, the original software company shoud be a guideline. Some examples. 1) Synapse software is a US game company. their games are NTSC. 2) but encounter was originally by novagen, which is PAL. the synapse software release is intended for NTSC< while the novagen releases were from PAL 3) US GOLD imported us games to europe from synapse and others. the games are PAL, BUT there are ntsc original releases of them not from US GOLD. THe games nearly always play right under NTSC as well even the US GOLD releases. use NTSC. 4) lucasfilm games were made in the USA. they are NTSC. 5) but Activision imported them to europe. and those release are PAL, with the music speed adjusted to match wha twas intended. the activision imports are PAL, and th elucasfilm originals are NTSC. Trying to run, say a PAL ballblazer on NTSC or vice versa breaks the game. 6) spectrum ports are generally PAL, since that's where the spectrum game was released. Apple II ports (like wavy navy) are generally NTSC, since apple is a US company. 7) if there are separate releases, but there was really no change, use the original country. The game was developed for the platform that was in the original country, and even if it works on the other without glitches, it's like running a pal game on an ntsc NES. even if it works, its' not a valid run. Example: most people think commando for c64 is PAL. it's not. it's ntsc, as evidenced by the game music speed being too slow on PAL, and correct on NTSC. this game is NTSC. Yie ar kung Fu is PAL. the music is too fast on NTSC. Only if there's nothing indicating otherwise, should NTSC be assumed the default. also. if there's a cart version, use that for faster boot times. :) ps. gb64 is worthless. it defaults everything that works on both to PAL (ntsc?). it's flat out wrong for most stuff. this is because most ntsc stuff works on PAL. very few do not.
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The lack of authoritave sources is indeed an issue, but https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10 is a pretty good resource. lots of people who used the computers are there. the sid file for the game is clocked at PAL. verified at HVSC.
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Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 335
This input should have stayed PAL, as that's where the game was, and the NTS vesion is simply the same game without changes. Here's the real guidelines. 1) if the game needed a NTSC-FIX, use the PAL version, unless the NTSC fix version was actually commercially sold. same for PAL fix (though generally ntsc is faster anyway) 2) if the game runs on both video standards without any difference except the slower framerate (and thus longer TAS time) then use the one that's faster (which is nearly ALWAYS NTSC) UNLESS the game was never sold in a NTSC region. (this is why i say this game is PAL, and should have stayed at that) 3) if there are PAL and NTSC compatible OFFICIAL releases, NTSC is preferred due to faster action. 4) if it's unclear, use the video standard that plays the music at the right speed, or the video standard with less graphical glitches. As an example of the former, bubble bobble plays some music at wrong speed on NTSC c64s, so it's a PAL game, and a run on NTSC not only shouldn't be accepted, it plays the intro story music way too SLOW. it may not be obvious what the right speed is, but when it's an arcade conversion, or has a cover of a real tune, it's obvious which is right. If the game flickers on NTSC and not on PAL, it should be ran as PAL.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 335
btw how holy water/dagger glitch works is that if it strikes the enemy on it's last frame, it insta kills. either if the first hit is on that frame, or if invulnerability expires on the last frame. when the holy water is deleted, if the enemy isn't invulnerable (flashing) at the time the water is touching, it ALSO gets deleted with the holy water, spawning the death object for that enemy.
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