Kevvl breaks the charge shot rule a lot. He ditched the rule completely in X7 and X8, which is good because it just drags on without it.
Anyway, just watch HideofBeast instead. Complete with great gameplay and excellent commentary, you can't go wrong.
Another trick :)
In water palace, whenever you need enough speed to go to the upper path instead of the lower path at those sideways waterweel things, you'll either immediately get out when you reach the top or you'll touch the top on the left side and have to waste time waiting to be swept to the right and exit. Try to manipulate it so you always come put on the right side. Also, the faster you go into the waterwheel, the faster up you go, but that may affect the exit point manipulation, so be careful about that. :)
In the mirage road boss, try to time your jump at the ball just right so that it hits him EXACTLY AS HE TURNS AROUND (you can see that in my boss run on youtube), because that means he won't catch it, and I don't think he'll be able to jump since he'll still be in the turning animation.
In the egg emperor v7 boss (original name egg king), when he hits you in the beginning (or anytime in the battle) with one of his hands and then the other, hit the first one on the first moment possible, which will make him skip using the other two hands and instantly go into his side punch phase. Prevent him from using the laser attacks where he fires a few lasers that get faster each time (the one where he fires only 4 is the fastest version, so that ones okay if it appears) and the one where he tries to hit you with the same laser over and over. Try not to let him use the two arm smash attack, since its super slow. Definetly dont let him use the electric trap attack AT ALL!
Ya, I am able to do that for x1 and x2. A guy named RoahmMythril did all of the classic MM series that way. But did not do the wily stages because it would force him to use rush/special weapon.
Im saying there can be an exception if a charge shot is actually required and etc.
And yes, I checked the damage data chart, and wolf sigma can only be damaged with level 4 charge shot or rolling shield (which is out of the picture cause of no special weapons), in case you thought i didnt know.
Just for that little bit. The rest is all uncharged and no damage or upgrades, or special weapons.
Id do the run myself, but i have a lot more runs to do, and i like playing x with a wiimote (hombrew channel emulator) instead of a keyboard (awkward controls).
On a side note, there's a guy named Kevyll on youtube who did perfect runs of every megaman x game meaning no upgrades, no damage, buster only, no special weapons, no charge shots, and (in x1 only) dashless (even though acquiring the dash boots is required). I would like it if someone TAS'd MMX1 along those guidelines. it would be long, but cool.
In x1 how does he kill final sigma? In x2 how does he kill Agile, Zero, and final sigma? Being that none of them can be damaged from an uncharged shot or use of a special weapon.
Oh he didnt do sigma stages, just the maverick and intro stages. However, you can probably make an exception for wolf sigma (he did for duff mcwhalen, since the whalebot mini bosses are so annoying for him) and fire the charged shots there
Heres a good tip. In boomer kuwangers level (I CAN ACTUALY SPELL HISNAME!? O_o) *ahem* ANYWAYS in Boomer Kuwanger's level, during the elevator segment, you can charge a Rolling Shield and make the climbing section with the moving platforms much easier, since running into the enemies like this will just destroy them. Also, by hopping off the side of the retracting platforms you can probably jump on to the ladder quicker. I dont know if that second tricks been used (forgot from the megaman x speedruns ive seen and cant check cause im in school :P ), but the rolling shield should make it easier to manage, and quicker, since you wont have to figure out how to hit the lizard on the ladder without losing time, you can just run into them. And there is a great chance to charge it during the elevator segment, which just happens to be before the climbing segment, so its perfect!
On a side note, there's a guy named Kevyll on youtube who did perfect runs of every megaman x game meaning no upgrades, no damage, buster only, no special weapons, no charge shots, and (in x1 only) dashless (even though acquiring the dash boots is required). I would like it if someone TAS'd MMX1 along those guidelines. it would be long, but cool.
You being unable to beat the human 'submitted' times has me a bit suspicious. Perhaps after all this is done, you'd be able to do some Boss ILs to obtain the best time from them, to see what else could happen? Outside of story mode of course.
Wait, you dont think i made that, did you? No way! You can tell cause the user who uploaded that video doesn't have the username "zwataketa" :P
It happens sometimes that a members YouTube nickname is different from their forum nickname. Therefor you can never really know unless someone says specifically that it's not their video or if it's widely known that their channel has a different name.
Well, trust me when i say: ALL my usernames are zwataketa. Never nuthin else :)
You being unable to beat the human 'submitted' times has me a bit suspicious. Perhaps after all this is done, you'd be able to do some Boss ILs to obtain the best time from them, to see what else could happen? Outside of story mode of course.
Wait, you dont think i made that, did you? No way! You can tell cause the user who uploaded that video doesn't have the username "zwataketa" :P
Just changed this topic again, now its only for my special contests. Oh, and by the way ...
WARNING! WARNING! It's time for a ... WARNING! WARNING!
SPECIAL CONTEST!
Game: Kirby's Return to Dreamland
Mode: The (regular) Arena
Rules: There's quite a few, so pay attention:
You have to beat the arena as quickly as possible. Seems simple enough, right? WRONG! You get points depending on how much time it takes to defeat each INDIVIDUAL boss, not the full arena time. Not only that, but you'll also be scored based on how much health you have after you're done with the last boss, and by how many tomatoes are left in the rest area when you defeat the last boss. I'll say it again, seems simple enough right? Well that's not all! There are SPECIAL BONUSES you can do to increase your score, too! These includes fighting a certain way, doing a certain type of dodge, and more! Be careful though, because there are also things you can do that will DECREASE your score, aka, the penalties! You may also play Co-op, but only with up to one player who MUST be Keeby (yellow Kirby). Keeby is unallowed to use Crash, Mike, Fire, Hammer, or Spark. Also, the bonuses for Keeby will not be counted, but the penalties will, so make sure that you're friend knows what he's doing if you wish to team up. Player 1 is allowed to choose any character they wish. I'll put the list of bonuses and penalties under the scoring.
Scoring:
Times for each individual boss will determine point value:
30 sec: 10,000 pts.
50 sec: 5,000 pts.
1 min: 2,000 pts.
1.5 min: 1,500 pts.
2 min: 1,000 pts.
+2 min: 500 pts.
Tomatoes left behind after the final rest area visit will add to score. If you collect a Maxim tomato in the room before Magolor 2, it will count as a tomato toward your end score.
Maxim Tomato: 50 pts.
Tomato: 10 pts.
Maxim Cube: 100 pts.
Your health after landing the final hit will be a scoring factor as well:
100%: 10,000 pts.
75%: 5,000 pts.
50%: 3,500 pts.
25%: 1,000 pts.
10% (red zone): 500 pts.
1% (looks empty): 150 pts.
Bonuses:
Naturalist: Beat the entire Arena with no ability- +100,000 pts.
Sphere Doomer Doomer: Defeat all four Sphere Doomers within a minute- +5,000 pts.
Double Attacker: Defeat both Sphere Doomers with the same attack- +2,000 pts.
Epic Dodge: Dodge an attack with an attack- +1,000 pts.
Epic Counter: When an Epic Dodge damages the foe- +100 pts.
Hammer Combo: When performing a hammer throw, hit the foe with the attack BEFORE throwing the hammer (during the swing) (Dedede does not get this Bonus)- +200 pts.
One for the win: Use only one attack to defeat a boss (if it's actually a cheap strategy, it will instead be a penalty) (doesn't count for no ability, Hi-jump, or Stone)- +500 pts.
Gorilla Crusher: Hit Goriath three times with one stone attack (I'll allow this one to be performed by P2 because I wanna see if anyone can actually do it, 'cause I can think of a way it's possible)- +1,000 pts.
"I guess I didn't need it!": Take the Maxim Cube into a battle and don't eat the tomato- +500 pts.
Penalties:
KO: P2 gets KO'ed- –1,000 pts.
Cheapsake: Play Cheap (I can tell the difference between using one move as skill and using one move as a planned lame strategy)- –500 pts.
Caught again: Get trapped by Whispy's inhale, Water Galborose's dash chomp, Mr. Dooter's juggle, or Magolor's Ztar Void (or any other attack which you have to shake the Wiimote to escape, in case I missed one)- –100 pts.
Too hot to handle: Get hit while using Ember (Fireball Inferno)- –100 pts.
Coward!: Stay in Leaf Hide or one stone to avoid 2 attacks- –300 pts.
How to enter: First make a run. Then send it to me as an AVI or WMV via PM, titling the message as "KRtDL Arena Tournament." Be sure to specify which ability you used (put random if you switched between bosses at all) and if you played with a friend. Note, this is NOT a TAS competition. TAS runs will not be accepted. Also, this competition is for the Arena, not the TRUE Arena. TRUE Arena runs will be unaccepted, despite you're extra effort. The competition is for the Arena, to make sure less skilled players have a chance (this is also why I have the scoring system that I do).
Prize: Haven't decided yet :P suggestions, anybody?
Good luck! And give those bosses a hammer in the face, a pokey-spear treatment, an honorable sword battle, or just eat 'em up!
Thought of a new trick. I think if I switch right before i land on a sponge dive, jump as the other character to cancel the animation, then switch back to Spongebob and jump to cancel that animation, i can use the sponge dive more while shaving off some of the stuck frames. I still don't think it should be overused, though, because that might still make me lose speed if used too much, but i think this trick will help :)
marzojr, great news! I really hope that you make it keeping in mind that it will be TASed (so 2 buttons for spin dash are better than one), and also hope that Amy’s abilities will not much differ from those she has in E-122-Psi’s hacks. You may consider this as a feature request from me, as from an Amy TASer :)
zwataketa, when answerring you about optimizing the loops in Amy@S2, I forgot to mention that even if you find a “perfect” position for making a jump inside a loop, it may be useless because there is high possibility that you will glitch through the wall and stuck, instead of accelerating.
Well, um, okay, but my question was about the camera, not the loops. And you already answered it.
If you're still working on it, here's some boss tips. I'll add more as I remember the bosses:
Whispy: try knocking on both trunks parts simultaneously to get whispy down quicker, or if there is only one left and whispy is at least on the touch screen, aim for whispy instead.
Lady ivy: find out when she is going to hit the bar, carry you're kirbys over that half, and when shes dizzy, release. If carrying them over still knocks them dizzy, make sure you at least have 6 or so that aren't dizzy to move the bar down on her head to deal damage. Also, her attack pattern might be mainpulatable, but she always deals the headbutt in a certain pattern, either every third or fourth attack (forgot exact count, but somewhere around that) will be the headbutt.
King dedede: knock both the bomb bubble that's about to explode and the bubble that doesn't explode as quickly into the air, then knock the bubble that didn't explode into the air one more time and it will explode. Its impossible to manipulate him to not use the super jump attack, because the bomb bubbles are the only means of attacking him, and you get to damage him anyways, so its actually better.
Skullord (volcano-pig man): destroy all the meteors and get the cannons right. 'nuff said.
Necrodeus: it is possible to destroy his hands the first time he attacks with each. Just be sure to hit them each time he punches the ground (including when he doesn't get them stuck). For the second phase, get all the damage possible on the two hands as possible before they clap, then escape and dodge the energy balls (you can't destroy them before they clap once). Do it again and they should be destroyed on the second go. Get all your kirbies to one of the hands as quickly as possible and tap like crazy (or, in this case, frame advance-tap-frame advance-no tap-frame advance-tap etc.), and you should be able to destroy the other hand too without it repeating the clap phase, making it so you can instantly go to the next phase (ive accomplished this in real time quite a few times actually). On the third phase, destroy the rocks he throws out not only to stop the lasers, but also to save time (his next action won't happen until the rocks are destroyed). Its impossible to catch him and deal damage when he fakes you out on the touch screen, so you have to wait for when he holds the eye in his mouth out in the open (kirby bosses have weird features sometimes |P). Deal as much damage as possiblebefore he fires his laser, then get off, because you can't finish him in one go. Btw, before this he has a bigger energy ball attack than last time. Im not so sure if it can be negated the first time he uses it via manipulation, but i think on the second time it can be negated. Anyways, now he will fire out skullions (stronger skullys). defeat them like normal skullys, except be careful because they are faster and if you get caught, they don't move slowly enough for you to rescue the kirby. He'll start faking you out again. If he uses the huge energy ball again, find a way to manipulate it away, because he'll most likely use two now. Damaging him more should finish him, then he will shake for a few frames preventing the kirbys from grabbing him, so stay away (it doesnt damage them, but it makes it take a bit longer to do the next step and look unprofessional). As soon as he stops shaking, flick a kirby onto him and all kirbys will follow because it will activate a touch minigame. Touch the kirbys but not the skulls (as if it isnt already obvious). And you won't be able to move while its loading the stage clear screen, but dont end the input there, because you'll need to scroll through the ending, and then theres a fishing minigame during the credits, and then the game album ...
... Since the credits are activated at that point, is it really necessary to play the fishing minigame? Will tas videos just take that part out? Sorry, i dont know how that works :P
Is the purpose of running backwards to catch the camera up to you and make it follow you more resulting in a faster time?
Nope. The reason is that in order to pass through the spikes later, you need to have X speed at least 4700. And such a speed is extremely hard to gain. So I go back to get additional acceleration from the slope. But do not worry — it’s possible to jump up much earlier and save even more time. I will do it as soon as I have time.
TASing this really takes a lot of time, and the reason is that Amy is a painfully hard character for perfect positioning. She’s very easy for braking, but price of easiness of braking is complexity of positioning. The bad side of having great speed is that movements become very hard for optimizing. For example, if your speed is 4000 subpixels per frame, it means that you skip 3998 possible positions for making a jump, and some of them could be much better than others. When you are playing Sonic, Tails or Knuckles, you can start rolling at different positions. Rolling on the slopes accelerates you a bit, and (which is actually more important) allows you to adjust sequence of your positions. But when you are Amy, you do not have such ability. You should either manage your position by letting some frames with empty input (which has a bad side — slightly decreases your speed), or (which is better, but extremely hard as well) managing position of spin dash. The problem with those 2 loops is that you have to perform a sequence of jumps instead of one single jump.
That’s why I actually optimize only the first loop. I noticed: if my X speed on the flat ground after the first loop is more than ~4200, I will be able to reach 4700 after the second loop even if I do not make any jumps in it. Till now the best speed I ever gained from those loops with Amy is only about 5000 (while in the current published run of this game using Sonic it’s around 5600).
So, the answer on your question about going back is that I would not be able to gain enough speed if I did not go back, and would loose much time later. But, as I’ve said, I am going to remake that run and avoid going back — by jumping earlier (which will require extreme amount of efforts to make a good jump as well).
I thought making the camera scroll to you would make it faster because it wouldn't have to follow you in the end result making the time for it to catch up way slower than if it always followed you. Not that it'll help me in the zipless run :P
Hey, you think we can ask Aglar how he perfects the tails control?
Depending on what do you mean by that. Breaking the capsule with Tails should not be that hard. The more hard thing may be to manipulate animals forcing them to disappear faster (which may involve writing a script). But it actually makes sense only when the overall quality of your run is enough to want to save a few non in-game frames. In what I see in the OOZ2 run above, equal amount of frames is lost during 1–2 seconds of the game process. Shave off those first, and then we’ll talk about perfecting minor parts.
zwataketa wrote:
Well, i mean how to make tails appear in time to hit the capsule and etc. and also all those other moments. I know where i need to optimize, and ill get to it in the real run. I just gotta go up faster at the first rising elevator without falling back down, or jump up ALL the way and not have to worry about the cliff next to the checker ball. And then entering the checker ball to progress i gotta enter it without missing, right?
Hey, you think we can ask Aglar how he perfects the tails control?
Depending on what do you mean by that. Breaking the capsule with Tails should not be that hard. The more hard thing may be to manipulate animals forcing them to disappear faster (which may involve writing a script). But it actually makes sense only when the overall quality of your run is enough to want to save a few non in-game frames. In what I see in the OOZ2 run above, equal amount of frames is lost during 1–2 seconds of the game process. Shave off those first, and then we’ll talk about perfecting minor parts.
zwataketa wrote:
Well, i mean how to make tails appear in time to hit the capsule and etc. and also all those other moments. I know where i need to optimize, and ill get to it in the real run. I just gotta go up faster at the first rising elevator without falling back down, or jump up ALL the way and not have to worry about the cliff next to the checker ball. And then entering the checker ball to progress i gotta enter it without missing, right.
Did you mean this?
Link to video
Well, then I have some questions to you.
1. You said that you were going to make a zipless run. Isn’t that a zip right after applying the «atomic» glitch? Okay, I understand that different people have different understanding of what zips are, but if you consider going offscreen as a zip, why not to consider this as a zip as well?
2. How about applying the «atomic» glitch 2 times in a row? Three times?
3. In many places it is possible to spin dash through spikes and other obstacles. And it will be faster than to jump over them. Should it be permitted or not?
And the main question, of course: can you make a better optimized run of this? I will be able to give more advices (and maybe even contribute my input, if you need). Your project looks interesting for me, nothing to hide, but until something is really made, it will be only a „project”.
1. I actually consider zips to be zips if they go offscreen to another part of the level WAY FAR from where you started the zip. so that doesn't really count. don't worry, I took it into consideration. although maybe I should change the tag to "no offscreen" ...
2. I don't know of any place AFTER the part where i stop the glitch where i can activate it again. if i just go into a checkerball again, it will send me in a set direction (although the checker ball i entered was necessary seeing as how theres no other way to pass it without zips. believe me, i tried.) and deactivate the glitch. if you mean stacking the effect of the glitch by performing it multiple times, then that would be impossible without having to go in the same spot over and over (depleting of entertainment and loss of time) or dragging an enemy to a checker ball and figuring out how to get hit and land in the checker ball (Losing lots of time from making sure the enemy stays on screen and positioning to fall in the checker ball when hit and waiting to get hit by the enemy).
3. I suppose i can do that, as long as it doesn't shoot me off the screen (for reasons you already know). but I won't be able to do that in oil ocean 2, because spindashing also deactivates the glitch, making me slower and not able to jump as high, thus making me inable to go through the route.
for your last question, the better optimized version of the stage will come once i actually get there in the run. I used level select to practice it :P
Now, lately, my homework has been keeping me till late time, so ill probably have to wait till the weekend or when i have little homework that i can get done easily and quickly before we can work collaboratively. sorry, school's helpful, but annoying sometimes -.-
Hey, you think we can ask Aglar how he perfects the tails control?
I don’t really know, but I think I can make it in 0:17 without going offscreen. Anyway, I simply suggested you to join my TAS projects instead of starting your own ones. But mentioned that I would help you if you prefer your own projects.
I think you could help me, possibly. I really think we should use the amy and tails setting to make some parts faster and boss fights a bit easier to tas. Also, dont forget the funny scenes i put at the end of my wips XD
Btw, did you see my oil ocean 2 test run? I wanted to show off the famous psuedo speed glitch without zips (since it is a zipless run of the game), and i didn't want to swim in the oil like everyone else (but i will in act 1). Also, if i had swam in the oil, it would require a zip to get to the boss fight since the oil stops at a certain point of the stage, possibly due to boundaries, so it would violate the rules of the run as well. I think the path i chose was a good one for a zipless run, dont ya think? Needs optimization, i know, but still a good no zip route, right?
Sorry for a bit trolling post above. Was in bad mood after way too much rerecords.
By the way, this was TASed without left+right ever pressed.
zwataketa wrote:
After all, theres no submitted runs of Amy in Sonic 2, so I don't HAVE to go too fast yet.
It’s not a good motivation, because if such a run gets accepted, any TASer (me for example :-p) will be able to simply take your run, shave off a couple frames from every single level and submit an «improvement» without any efforts. Also there is a rule that your movie will not be accepted if there are known better movies (not only within this website — on youtube, for example. Do you know that some TASers are even not registered here and so do not post any submissions, but their movies on youtube are quite well known)?
Im not THAT unserious about it. But I'm still new and don't know everything about it. Well, let me think ... Say, what's you're fastest run of Emerald Hill zone act 1 where you DON'T go off screen, and that includes outrunning the camera
or maybe do a all teams run with the chaos emeralds bonus stages inside one of these teams' stories.
You could try finding which second acts are quickest for each team and collect each emerald with a certain team based on that
Also, i recently got to the end of sonic heroes on my wii, and i was doing it correctly, but the team blast charge glitch doesnt work against metal overlord. It does, however work on metal madness. :)
http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/PSX/index.htm#MegaManX4
I still remember vgmaps.com, though I haven't gone there in a long time. It is very useful.
I think this goes in the Mega Man X4 thread, in any case.
This doesnt go in the megaman x4 thread because this has nothing to do with tasing -.-'
And its actually off topic because it has to do with my dads work, so can you please UNmerge this? I would, but i dont know how
