Huh? Do you mean reallyjoel's dad difficulty? The one that's a joke difficulty level which is pretty much physically impossible until someone enables TAS conditions?
No, I mean the second hardest. I just don't remember its name and don't have a game with me at the moment. I wouldn't bother going full pacifist on Ultimortal, that's just too much.
More to the point, it would also be impossible (you can't skip a few vital encounters endgame in ultimortal difficulty). If you learn to tech a (mostly) pacifist run on ultimortal isn't that hard (and Maximum Charge Tor is the best part of the game, you have to play that if you haven't).
Also, replaying Planescape: Torment and exploring the various dialogue options is a huge part of the games quality. I would advise you to replay it with a different mindset when it comes to choices - It makes a big difference in that game.
Also, replaying Planescape: Torment and exploring the various dialogue options is a huge part of the games quality. I would advise you to replay it with a different mindset when it comes to choices - It makes a big difference in that game.
I actually did go through (nearly?) the entire dialogue trees via saving/reloading when I played it the first time. I'm kind of pedantic when it comes to that, mostly so that I don't have to spend a lot more play time for comparatively little change. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, though, but my time is not infinite.
But yeah, if you reread what I said earlier you'd see that was pretty much what I was talking about. Narrowing the scope down to dialogues exclusively, the game is a gem yet to be matched. Everything aside from the dialogues, however, ranges from painfully mediocre to "why do I even bother with this". It all averages out to it being a great game still, but it does feel like the actual gameplay is a filler for the narrative rather than a vessel. I found myself spending most of the play time that wasn't spent in dialogue menus traveling from one location to another, changing discs and looking at the loading screens. Coming to think of it, a good part of the modern gaming has taken a page from Torment's book by fostering the prevalence of writing and artistry over the elements of play, leading to abundance of filler and/or lack of challenge.
A good example of a game with a strong narrative element and adequately strong gameplay is Deus Ex. That's why it's fondly remembered over 10 years since its release, and rightfully so.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
A good example of a game with a strong narrative element and adequately strong gameplay is Deus Ex. That's why it's fondly remembered over 10 years since its release, and rightfully so.
I like to play games from start to finish in one go (I don't mean in one sitting, but in the sense that I don't want to play several games in alternation, and instead like to play only one game exclusively from start to finish before starting another game). The reason is that if I stop playing a game mid-way for whatever reason (and start playing something else), it too often happens that I will never finish it, which feels like a waste. It doesn't really matter how short or long a game might be (for example it took me 2 days to play Condemned: Criminal Origins through, and slightly over 2 months to play Lost Odyssey through).
However, there are some games which simply go below a certain threshold of interest: No matter how much I try to play them, I can't. I get bored, they completely fail to keep me interested, and after no small amount of struggling I just stop playing them and go to something else. Very rarely do I finish such games.
It's not always clear to me why that happens. As I'm replying to your post, and deducing from what I quoted, I suppose you can guess where I'm going with this. Yes, I bought Deus Ex some years ago because it was so praised, like it was one of the best games ever made, and I couldn't finish it. In fact, I stopped at the second or third level, IIRC. It just didn't work.
Graphically the game hasn't survived the pass of time very well (which isn't very surprising with 3D games, although there are some such games which survive better than others), and I just didn't see the marvelous content that everybody was talking about. Perhaps this content could have appeared if I had played longer, but since it didn't entice me from the very start, it just somehow failed to keep me interested.
Maybe one day I'll try again.
Yeah, the plot twists don't start until about 2/5 in the game, so you likely haven't reached them.
But if you ever get to replaying it, I suggest paying attention to the characters, their stance on the in-game events, and everything that's happening there. Talk to them at different points in the game and see how their reaction changes. The game is pretty rich in details.
In terms of actual gameplay there is a lot of freedom as to how you do things, similar to, say, Fallout 2. In many instances you can either talk your way through, or hide and sabotage, or just barge in and shoot. If you put enough points into handgun-related augmentations you can cruise through the whole game with the pistol you receive from the start. Or you can level up the low-tech weapon skill and use the energy blade you can find later in the game to kill everybody at close range in 1-2 hits.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
One of my favorite details about Deus Ex is very early in the game.
* Slight possible spoiler *
At the end of the first level, after you deal with the terrorist leader in any way you've chosen, a soldier comes up and tells you that they've cleared out all the terrorists (essentially that the level is finished). Now, you can go down and talk to the boss and get some credit. However, if you shoot this soldier, right after the usual conversation with the boss, he'll add on a last line. "By the way, we sent up a soldier after you, but he wasn't heard from. Do you know what happened? We're starting an investigation."
* End spoiler*
Few things are as great as a game that cares about details as small as that.
Re: Planescape: It is true that the combat system is quite unwieldy (and that playing the CD-versions have way too much disc switching). And while story has started taking up more and more space in games (probably more due to Final Fantasy than Planescape), they sadly don't copy the most important aspect of Torment: the superb writing.
And while story has started taking up more and more space in games (probably more due to Final Fantasy than Planescape), they sadly don't copy the most important aspect of Torment: the superb writing.
Exactly.
I feel somewhat sad there aren't that many thinker's games out there (and I don't mean board games and puzzles here obviously), it's almost as if there is no market for them. But, looking at the cult following games like Deus Ex and Torment have, this can't be true, can it?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
moozooh wrote:
I feel somewhat sad there aren't that many thinker's games out there (and I don't mean board games and puzzles here obviously), it's almost as if there is no market for them. But, looking at the cult following games like Deus Ex and Torment have, this can't be true, can it?
I don't think that there's a lack of market, it's that it's very difficult to actually write a good plot driven movie with twists, turns, moral decisions, and intricate dialogue. It's the same with movies. For every 'Usual Suspects' there's 50 generic action movies, because it's a lot easier to write big explosions into a script than it is to write believable and convincing dialogue.
I feel somewhat sad there aren't that many thinker's games out there (and I don't mean board games and puzzles here obviously), it's almost as if there is no market for them. But, looking at the cult following games like Deus Ex and Torment have, this can't be true, can it?
I think the problem here lies in not that people don't want the games, it's that _enough_ people don't want the games, because "enough" nowadays is a very huge number.
While Deus Ex, for its time, was a big game, in comparison to the budgets games have nowadays it's nothing. Most of the games the big companies make simply can't afford being cult games, they have to be mainstream smash hits to make up for their vast budgets.
Also, a game like Deus Ex requires skill, both technical and creative, and I think that while the market is overflowing in technical skill nowadays, there's a lot less creative going around.
A good example of a game with a strong narrative element and adequately strong gameplay is Deus Ex. That's why it's fondly remembered over 10 years since its release, and rightfully so.
I had never played it before, but thanks to your recommendation I've now acquired and finished it. It easily made it into my top 25.
Warp wrote:
Yes, I bought Deus Ex some years ago because it was so praised, like it was one of the best games ever made, and I couldn't finish it. In fact, I stopped at the second or third level, IIRC. It just didn't work.
I recall that as the time through the game where I have been most bored with it. At that stage the missions you're on still are quite incoherent, but that drastically changes pretty quickly. Later on, I got a bit bored with it again though. (wow, another new map to explore! :/)
You seem to be very experienced in FPS games, maybe you didn't play it on a high enough difficulty setting? (I recommend Realistic, though the first level will be a pain then). The idea is really that you should want to avoid dangerous battles and a high difficulty setting encourages you to find creative ways of doing that. If you just play it as a general FPS game, it would certainly feel a bit sub-par. I also strongly discourage anyone from using the quite popular Shifter mod. It just makes things way too easy.
The thing I've enjoyed about it most is that it forces you to make decisions where you have no way of knowing which option is the better one. So you just have to pick one and deal with it (then later be pissed, lol). For multiple path solutions, I ended up going most of the possible paths to collect more skill points though. (very slight non-plot-related spoiler)
For other very immersive, oldish PC games, I can recommend Ultima VIII: Pagan, even though many fans of the series seem to think it sucks.
