Small change I'd like to see this year - TAS of the Year should not also win Platform TAS of the Year, and that should instead go to the 2nd runner up for that Platform. I'd like to know if people agree with me.
A second, probably less popular idea, would be to prevent the same TAS from winning multiple categories, such as Glitchy and Innovative, or etc.
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I agree with both of these suggestions, though an order of precedence would need to be established in the event that a run wins in more than one category.
I'm also agreeing with both suggestions, since there are TASes that are extraordinary well done, for example one that could suit perfect on "glitchy tas of the year" but "the best tas of the year" also is in this place.
I disagree strongly with the first suggestion. If anything I think that "TAS of the year" should also win "Platform TAS of the year". I expect TAS of the year to go to the best TAS of the year, and Platform TAS of the year to go to the best TAS on a particular platform. If TAS of the year doesn't also win Platform TAS of the year, then one of the winners isn't the best, and in my mind doesn't deserve the award.
If you want to give out second prizes, suggest that instead. But please don't redefine the existing awards. Actually, I'd get right behind a suggestion of second prizes for all Platform TAS awards (or perhaps, all Platform TAS awards which had at least N nominees for some N to avoid showering awards on minority platforms).
I'm not too fussed about the second suggestion. Glitchy, funny, etc are novelty awards, and I think it's reasonable that they should be used to highlight TASes which might otherwise have been missed because they didn't win a main award.
Agreed with both. Especially the first one. Right now, TAS of the Year is a double award that makes the Platform TAS of the Year in on it's platform redundant.
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I agree with DarkKobold, however (probably getting bashed for this) one could take it one step further and limiting TASes to only be nominated to one category.
An idea that crossed my mind reading the previous posts are that if there won't be too much work involved also give prices to 2nd and 3rd place (silver and bronze)
I agree with DarkKobold, however (probably getting bashed for this) one could take it one step further and limiting TASes to only be nominated to one category.
The problem with this is that if you have a great TAS, you won't know whether you want to nominate it for TAS of the year or just Platform TAS of the year. Either you get a very good chance of a smaller award, or you get a maybe-one-in-three shot at the big one. We don't want to encourage people not to nominate for TAS of the year because it deprives them of Platform TAS of the year with only a small chance of success at a bigger award for it. In the end, both awards suffer by not being able to consider the full range of eligible TASes.
Under your system, the second and third favourite contenders for TAS of the year last year (Megaman 2 and Aria of Sorrow 100% souls) might have won nothing at all, had they gone for the big prize.
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rhebus wrote:
Warepire wrote:
I agree with DarkKobold, however (probably getting bashed for this) one could take it one step further and limiting TASes to only be nominated to one category.
The problem with this is that if you have a great TAS, you won't know whether you want to nominate it for TAS of the year or just Platform TAS of the year. Either you get a very good chance of a smaller award, or you get a maybe-one-in-three shot at the big one. We don't want to encourage people not to nominate for TAS of the year because it deprives them of Platform TAS of the year with only a small chance of success at a bigger award for it. In the end, both awards suffer by not being able to consider the full range of eligible TASes.
Under your system, the second and third favourite contenders for TAS of the year last year (Megaman 2 and Aria of Sorrow 100% souls) might have won nothing at all, had they gone for the big prize.
Agreed with both. Especially the first one. Right now, TAS of the Year is a double award that makes the Platform TAS of the Year in on it's platform redundant.
this is what I meant with my post, after reading some others I feel my wording was incorrect
I disagree strongly with the first suggestion. If anything I think that "TAS of the year" should also win "Platform TAS of the year".
I think the problem with that is that it kind of makes the second category redundant.
One alternative which comes to mind (I'm not really suggesting this, just throwing an idea) is that the "platform TAS of the year" award is not awarded for the platform which gets the "TAS of the year" award, the reasoning being that it's already assumed with the latter award. This would avoid the redundancy. Perhaps the "TAS of the year" award icon image could include a small platform symbol somewhere in a corner or something. (Although one could validly argue that the run getting both awards, and hence both icons, is already symbolizing this exact thing.)
I do see the point, though, that one could ask "how come the best TAS was not the best in its own platform category?"
I disagree strongly with the first suggestion. If anything I think that "TAS of the year" should also win "Platform TAS of the year".
I think the problem with that is that it kind of makes the second category redundant.
What exactly do you mean by "redundant" and what is so bad about it? Why is it bad for one TAS to win more than one award? I don't understand what is so bad about this that people want to change the awards to avoid it.
If redundancy is bad, the two ways to resolve it seem even worse:
1. Remove the offending category for the year as said by Warp above -- but why? how is this better than before?
2. Award the offending platform TAS category to a different TAS -- but this removes redundancy by replacing it with inconsistency. Again, how is this better than before?
I do see the point, though, that one could ask "how come the best TAS was not the best in its own platform category?"
If the current system avoids confusion that changing it would cause, then why change it?
I don't understand the perceived problem, and I don't like the proposed solutions. I'd be interested to hear from the OP exactly why he thinks the changes should be made, rather than just which changes should be made. Because if someone can explain to me what the problem is, perhaps we can work to find a solution which we're all happy with. As it is, I don't understand at all that there is any problem which needs fixing. (And yes, I've heard people say "redundancy" -- but why is that a problem?)
I disagree strongly with the first suggestion. If anything I think that "TAS of the year" should also win "Platform TAS of the year".
I think the problem with that is that it kind of makes the second category redundant.
What exactly do you mean by "redundant" and what is so bad about it? Why is it bad for one TAS to win more than one award? I don't understand what is so bad about this that people want to change the awards to avoid it.
The redundancy is not about one TAS getting more than one award. The redundancy is that the "TAS of the year" award automatically grants the "platform TAS of the year" award for that platform as well. The former automatically implies the latter. It's not possible (currently) to have the former without the latter. You could as well just grant "TAS of the year" award and throw out the "platform TAS of the year" for that specific platform, and nothing would change. That's the redundancy.
If redundancy is bad, the two ways to resolve it seem even worse:
1. Remove the offending category for the year as said by Warp above -- but why? how is this better than before?
2. Award the offending platform TAS category to a different TAS -- but this removes redundancy by replacing it with inconsistency. Again, how is this better than before?
I also suggested unifying the two awards into one icon. (I don't know if it would make sense, but just an idea.)
As it is, I don't understand at all that there is any problem which needs fixing.
Perhaps the idea is that one TAS automatically hogging two awards may feel a bit unfair to the other fine nominated TASes.
I don't see a problem, but just omitting the "Platform TAS of the year" award for whichever platform the "TAS of the year" is on would maybe be the most convenient way to fix it.
I don't see a problem, but just omitting the "Platform TAS of the year" award for whichever platform the "TAS of the year" is on would maybe be the most convenient way to fix it.
Let's say I really like SNES games. I only had a SNES, never had another console, so I don't care about any other games. I go back through looking for the best SNES TAS of 2008 - yeah, super mario world! I look at 2007 - wait, there isn't a best SNES TAS that year? I look at 2009 - again, no best SNES TAS? This is what would happen if those SNES TAS of the year awards hadn't been awarded, because the games won TAS of the year instead.
The awards have a dual purpose: to reward good TASes, and to instruct viewers on TASes of quality. The different categories help users identify TASes which satisfy their own interests - I know I'm more likely to look at GBA or SNES TAS of the year than PSX or NES. Removing Platform TAS of the year awards will add a bit of confusion for viewers. In any change, we must consider the consequences not just for the recipients of the awards, but also the people who view the awards page.
Warp's idea of a combined TAS of the year/Platform TAS of the year award would serve TASers and viewers equally well, and wouldn't suffer from the confusion mentioned above; but it seems to be just a cosmetic difference from the current system: to declare that "TAS of the year/Platform TAS of the year" is one award rather than two.
Warp wrote:
Perhaps the idea is that one TAS automatically hogging two awards may feel a bit unfair to the other fine nominated TASes.
Do know any TASer who does feel that the current system is unfair? An awards ceremony is all about recognizing excellence. I'd say it's fine for the best TAS of the year to get a lot of well-deserved recognition. I think the previous four TASes of the year deserved every award they got.
Perhaps the idea is that one TAS automatically hogging two awards may feel a bit unfair to the other fine nominated TASes.
Do know any TASer who does feel that the current system is unfair?
I don't know what the actual motivation for the original suggestion in this thread was, but I was pondering if it was, at least in part, that kind of sentiment. Perhaps "unfair" is a bit strong of a word to describe it, but I couldn't think of anything better.
An awards ceremony is all about recognizing excellence. I'd say it's fine for the best TAS of the year to get a lot of well-deserved recognition. I think the previous four TASes of the year deserved every award they got.
I'd say the problem is not one TAS getting multiple awards (which I personally don't have anything against), but it being more or less automatic in this particular case. It's the redundancy thing.
I guess we better recall 7 of Michael Phelps gold medals, or 10 of the academy awards that Return of the King took. As they were only entited to win one award.
To clarify, a TAS that wins multiple awards is usually the sign of something trully special.
My suggestion of terror: just retire the award of "TAS of the Year"!
You know, even the Academy Award has never had such an award like "Best Film of the Year".
EDIT:
I'm serious. Please think about this.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
You know, even the Academy Award has never had such an award like "Best Film of the Year".
Um.... Best Picture is essentially Best Film of the Year
I don't agree. Best Picture is essentially "Best English Language Film of the Year".
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Yeah, you're point? If we wanted to compare Turkish movies we'd do so. But to say that Best Picture is just for English language movies, while Best Film of the Year would be for all languages is a poor argument based entirely on semantics.
I don't have any real opinion on which categories we keep, alter, modify, or outright drop, but I can say that we have a "Best TAS of the Year" for the same reason they have "Best Picture": To highlight the cream of the crop for the year.
I guess we better recall 7 of Michael Phelps gold medals, or 10 of the academy awards that Return of the King took. As they were only entited to win one award.
To clarify, a TAS that wins multiple awards is usually the sign of something trully special.
There's a difference; each of those medals (or awards) were awarded for something different. One could very well win the best male actor, without winning best female actor (or the other way around) but it's currently impossible for, say, a NES TAS to win TAS of the Year without winning NES TAS of the Year.
On TASVideos, getting any of the Best TAS awards is done by making a good TAS. Getting two awards for being a good TAS seems redundant. Getting one for being incredibly glitchy and getting one for best luck manipulation is something completely different.
Honestly, I think klmz's suggestion (no general TAS of the Year award) is the best one so far.
There's a difference; each of those medals (or awards) were awarded for something different. One could very well win the best male actor, without winning best female actor (or the other way around) but it's currently impossible for, say, a NES TAS to win TAS of the Year without winning NES TAS of the Year.
Perhaps a good comparison would be: Imagine if the movie which is awarded the oscar for best picture was also automatically awarded the oscar for best director (because one could argue that the former implies the latter). If this were the case, the latter oscar would probably simply be dropped because it's redundant. The one and only "best picture" oscar would implicitly signify also "best director".
(I'm not saying here that the "best platform TAS" award should be dropped. I'm just drawing a comparison.)
Your comparison is invalid, since the case here is that Best TAS does not consistently obsolete the same award. It always obsoletes an award from a specific class (Best TAS for X System), but which one varies. rhebus's point earlier is sufficient IMO to show that we shouldn't not give an award to a high-achiever just because they also get a better one.
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