Topic by JuanValdez

Posted: 9/6/2004 6:17 AM

Post subject: Legend of the Mystical Ninja

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JuanValdez

Former player

Joined: 9/5/2004
Posts: 19

Hi everyone I discovered this site not too long ago and was pretty impressed by some of your work, so I decided I'd give it a go to. For my first attempt, I figure I'd do Legend of The Mystical Ninja, as nobody has done it yet, and it was probably my favorite SNES game back in the day. So far I've finished up to the end of level 2. Take a look http://pages.sbcglobal.net/nkessler2000/LegendofTheMysticalNinja.smv I know there are a couple glaring errors that I intend to go back and correct, such as missing the first plate fighting ghost girl, clipping a few edges, mistiming a jump fighting lantern man, but overall I thought it was all right. Any suggestions for a newbie? Any ways to save time that I might have not thought of? Any ways to make it more interesting? Let me know what you think. Any comments would be appreciated.

Posted: 9/6/2004 9:00 AM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

I have also wanted to see a run for this movie. If I had ever beaten it, I would know the best path to take through the whole thing. Too bad I always got lost about 65% through the game. To watch your movie, I need to know the name for your ROM. Also, from what you call glaring examples of error, I have to ask if you seriously used the slowdown and rerecord functions of the snes9x. If you just let them slide because a new movie was going to be in the works, thats OK. Just make sure youre a bit more tedious about perfection, and it should make for a good movie/some good competition.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 9/6/2004 12:49 PM

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nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

my suggestion is make the movie twice or 3 times. on the first run dont lose much time trying to make a "jump" perfect because there may be bigger mistakes. make the run to the end of the game, watch and make again from start.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 9/6/2004 6:57 PM

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JuanValdez

Former player

Joined: 9/5/2004
Posts: 19

I decided to start over again, with much improvement over the first video. No mistakes fighting ghosty, no noticeable clipping, and I think I did a way better job fighting lantern man. Check out my latest WIP. This one goes up to the end of level 4. http://pages.sbcglobal.net/nkessler2000/LegendOfTheMysticalNinja2.smv This is the last WIP before a final release, which I hope to finish before the end of the week. One thing I still haven't quite decided on was how to handle the problem of gathering money. In level 6 you need to buy the pass, and in level 8 you need to buy that stupid book, both of which cost $980! By the start of level 5 I only have $280. I was thinking the dice game was the quickest way to earn mucho cash. There's one in level 5 right in the path, but I would have to play it three times to earn the necessary cash for both the pass and the book. If I waited until level 6 to play, I would probably have $500 by then and would only have to play twice, but I can't remember if I would have to go out of my way or not to get to it. Anyone familiar with this game able to give me some suggestions? Also, for Zurreco, the name of the ROM I have is Legend of The Mystical Ninja, The (U).smc

Posted: 9/7/2004 1:34 AM

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Mlandry

Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325

if your not sure just beat level 5 without recording and go check in level6 if its out of the way of in your path

Posted: 9/7/2004 2:54 AM

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Boco

Former player

Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination

Is it faster to do the dice game or to get your fortune read? And is it faster (or more entertaining) to do a 2-player (Goemon + Ebisumaro) run rather than a one-player? Though if this is already 1P there's no sense in starting over for 2P - whoever challenges it can do that.

someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.

Posted: 9/7/2004 4:01 PM

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fuwafuwa

Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95

JuanValdez wrote:

In level 6 you need to buy the pass, and in level 8 you need to buy that stupid book, both of which cost $980!

How about the lottery? IIRC you get $1150 per lotto win ($50+$200+$1000 - $100 for the ticket).. I don't remember where exactly the lotto places are, but I seem to recall one in level 2, at least. If you played through 3 times, that'd be more than enough cash.

Posted: 6/21/2006 10:57 PM

Post subject: Legend of the Mystic Ninja, 2 player run.

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

Some of you may remember Yeoj and I's run from the Winter season. It was un-published, mainly due to crappy town walking and crappy text-advancing. We decided to redo the entire game, start to finish. Here is a list of improvements, as far as we have gotten. Level 1: Without tripple sandals, barrels can not be jumped. However, barrel corners can be jumped. This is now abused. It is faster to jump at an angle in towns then it is to walk at an angle. Jumping at an angle moves at the same speed of walking in a straight line. This is abused as well. The ghost woman is now hit be 2 plates simultaneously. This saves a few frames of flashing red. Level 2: Better town planning, angle jumping, etc. Lantern man is now abused with the double hit. Additionally, we improved on him, by forcing him to not jump. This battle is the shortest we've achieved, coming in at 11.5 seconds. It's worth watching this battle in slow motion, just to tell what is going on. Level 3: Better town planning, angle jumping, etc. Lottery is manipulated much faster. Level 4: Better town planning, angle jumping, etc. We utilize the double jump for a better angle in the last room. Double jumping now is only used at the last moment, speeding up jumps. 1st set of bosses is defeated much faster, by utilizing the delay in command-to-excution time. Level 5: Better town planning, angle jumping, etc. Tried to append our last video to the end of this video.... Something in the RNG said no, and a previously non-existant enemy appeared. enjoy

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 6/21/2006 10:59 PM

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DarkKobold

Skilled player (1637)

Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy

The video helps things... errr... http://www.msu.edu/~thomso25/YeojDKFinalwend.smv

Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.

Posted: 6/22/2006 12:54 PM

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Rat

Joined: 7/17/2005
Posts: 23

The video desyncs in the ninja hideout. What version of the rom did you use?

+_+

Posted: 6/23/2006 2:48 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

There does seem to be a desync somewhere around frame 46800 in the movie. It's probably not a problem with the ROM (because the CRC32 matched). Maybe that's where they tried unsuccessfully to append the previous video to the end?

Posted: 3/17/2007 11:15 PM

Post subject: Legend of the Mystical Ninja WIP

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zidanax

Player (215)

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 373
Location: Oregon

Hello. I noticed that, looking at DarKobold/Yeoj's attempts at a Legend of the Mystical Ninja TAS, there are certainly improvements to be made over JuanValdez's TAS. I decided I should try doing this game as my first TAS because it's a game I enjoy and hasn't been highly optimized throughout the game by the more experienced TASers here. I've finished level 1 up to the point where the tourist agency starts fading out, and thought I should put it up to see if anybody's got comments or suggestions. Level 1 TAS Some notes: This run saves 568 frames over JuanValdez's run of the first level (unless I'm counting frames incorrectly), and 246 frames over DarkKobold/Yeoj's aborted second attempt at a TAS, in the first level. Things that save time compared to JuanValdez's run: -Getting through the intro screens quicker. -Going through various sections of level 1 faster, with many thanks to DarKobold/Yeoj for their trick of jumping through barrel corners. -Faster scrolling when talking to people. (many rerecords associated with this!) -Faster scrolling through the Horo dungeon. NOTE: If you're wondering why I jump over some of the enemies in Horo, it's because it turns out that jumping over an enemy without attacking it is 1 frame faster than attacking it in midair. So I only kill the enemies I need for a pipe upgrade. -Faster boss fight. Many thanks to DarkKobold/Yeoj and JuanValdez for setting a standard to try to beat.

Posted: 3/18/2007 12:09 AM
(Edited: 4/4/2007 11:06 PM)

Post subject: Re: Legend of the Mystical Ninja WIP

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

Now we have 3 Mystical Ninja topics... Legend of the Mystical Ninja Legend of the Mystic Ninja, 2 player run. Legend of the Mystical Ninja WIP Fortunately, I just made a testrun yesterday. My TestRun (I used Japanese ROM v1.2) It may be faster than your run (note that I didn't compare both runs seriously). Anyway, I have to think of various way of optimization. P.S. If I make the run of Mystical Ninja, I'll use Japanese ROM for this very Japanese game.

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 3/18/2007 12:59 AM

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zidanax

Player (215)

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 373
Location: Oregon

... That was pretty good, considering that you said there's more optimization to be done. It looks like the level 1 part of your testrun is a few hundred frames faster than mine. I don't know how much ROM differences contributes to that, but if the people here are OK with a TAS of the Japanese version, then I will just step aside and let you make a complete TAS.

Posted: 3/18/2007 9:33 AM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

The rules state that you should always use the ROM that was used to make the previous published movie, unless there is some significant change for the better. Do not use the Japanese ROM, it will only complicate things.

Posted: 3/18/2007 10:03 AM

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zidanax

Player (215)

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 373
Location: Oregon

In that case, I will continue working on my run of the US version, since it sounds like Gocha prefers making a TAS of the Japanese version. First, I'll try to optimize level 1 some more. Seeing Gocha's run reminded me that there's also the possibility of getting the sandals first. I'd actually tried that method before in a previous attempt, but by the time I'd reached the tourist agency, I was only about 50 frames ahead of JuanValdez's run, and I attributed that to some other optimizations. But now that I know a little more about moving through town in a fast manner (e.g., jump diagonally instead of walk diagonally), I'll try the method again and see if it saves some time. Besides, I also noticed that the patterns of enemies can somehow be manipulated, so I may be able to gather coins for the sandals a little quicker than before, given numerous rerecords.

Posted: 3/18/2007 10:58 PM

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

I'd prefer to play with Japanese ROM, and let judges and voters judge whether the Japanese run should obsolete a USA record. Please forgive my obstinateness... However I'm still wavering. I haven't decided which version I use yet. Btw, I'm thinking of 2-player run, I have to examine whether it is faster than 1-player run. Does zidanax have any idea about 2-player run?

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 3/18/2007 11:09 PM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

I can tell you now that I will instantly vote NO for a movie that breaks the aforementioned rule. Just giving you the heads up.

Posted: 3/18/2007 11:16 PM

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zidanax

Player (215)

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 373
Location: Oregon

@Gocha: A well-optimized 2-player boss fight would almost certainly be faster than a well-optimized 1-player boss fight, due to many more opportunities to do four damage at a time by hitting an enemy twice in the same frame(would there even be any such oppurtunities in a 1-player run outside of Boss 1?). Also, I know of at least one time-saving trick that's only possible with 2 players (the double jump). There may be other 2-player-exclusive tricks that I'm forgetting. You can, as you probably already know, look at DarkKobold/Yeoj's runs for some examples of 2-player time-saving tricks. I'm not going to attempt a two-player run, since this is only my first TAS

Posted: 3/18/2007 11:35 PM

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

Hmm, I wish I were a first person to try the TAS of this game. I think their differences are not so big (conversation length, and visual change, as far as I know), and current record will be beaten clearly... (´・ω・`)

zidanax wrote:

I'm not going to attempt a two-player run, since this is only my first TAS

I will try 2-player run if it will save time. Edit: Ok, I am very disappointed, but I decided using USA version. Because it seems to bring a lot of complicate problems... sad :'(

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 3/19/2007 7:19 PM
(Edited: 3/19/2007 8:19 PM)

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zidanax

Player (215)

Joined: 2/12/2006
Posts: 373
Location: Oregon

Another WIP of the first level, now 11223 frames, an improvement of 65 frames. I didn't seem to be seeing improvements with getting the sandals first overall Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the time gained going to and back from Horo didn't seem to be quite enough to make up for the time spent gathering coins. Any improvement in overall time by getting the sandals first would probably need really kick-ass luck manipulation of how the enemies appear in order to gather coins quickly. EDIT: oh, hello Gocha, I see that you decided to try the US version. It's finals week here anyway, so I'm going to stop TASing for now. I'd love to see if you can improve on my level 1 time for the US version. EDIT #2: I just remembered that you said you would do a 2-player run if it saves time. You could probably do a faster-enough boss fight to beat my time.

Posted: 3/19/2007 7:28 PM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

Kyrsimys wrote:

I can tell you now that I will instantly vote NO for a movie that breaks the aforementioned rule. Just giving you the heads up.

This seems kind of harsh to me. If version differences are explained with the submission, I don't see the problem. It's happened with submissions before.

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 3/26/2007 1:01 AM

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

So... Can I use Japanese version, everyone? (I haven't made any WIPs yet. I'm currently testing various things) If a Japanese run is not allowed, I'll make the run with USA version. But if it is allowed, I'll definitely make the run with Japanese version. I'd like to hear opinions more.

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 3/26/2007 2:23 AM

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JXQ

Experienced player (750)

Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132

The important thing to know is that comparing two submissions on different versions is not as simple as comparing their ending times, and so you should elaborate which differences are caused by improved play and which are caused by a version change. It will make things more tedious to compare to the previous run if you are using a different version. Without knowing the specifics of this game, I think it's important for the author to do the run on the version they are happiest with. I liked this the best:

gocha wrote:

I'd prefer to play with Japanese ROM, and let judges and voters judge whether the Japanese run should obsolete a USA record.

Because it is similar to the approach I would take :)

<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)

Posted: 3/26/2007 3:23 AM

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332

Gocha wrote:

So... Can I use Japanese version, everyone? (I haven't made any WIPs yet. I'm currently testing various things) If a Japanese run is not allowed, I'll make the run with USA version. But if it is allowed, I'll definitely make the run with Japanese version. I'd like to hear opinions more.

I usually don't care much one way or the other, but in this case, I feel that using the English version would detract from the illucidity of the game. がんばれ！がんばれ！がんばれ！ :D