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Joined: 11/13/2005
Posts: 1587
Tenchu is a game about ninjas killing people. Pretty brutal, eh? But for real, it's a stealth action game based in ye old Japan. It's a lot of fun to play and I think it would make a cool TAS. I made a short video with PSXjin (I can provide the input file if anyone's interested) to show a bit of the game. It completes the first level quite fast, but it's nowhere near perfect. There are several ways of moving forward and I didn't really test out which is the fastest. I would think the grappling hook has the highest speed and the long jump the second fastest. Both of them have some motionless time though. Also, the game has pretty bad collision detection, so some glitching might be possible. Now this video of mine shows what the fastest completion would look like. I also think that a 100% stealth kills run would be awesome, since it would show off more of the game and possibly more impressive acrobatics. So, is there any interest in this game at all? I doubt I will be the one TASing the game, since I'm not good at. I just made the video to stir up some discussion. EDIT: Oh yeah, there are two different characters and I didn't check if Ayame is faster. That might be the case, but I'm not sure. There are also different items that might make the life of a TAS ninja more easier, but once again, I didn't test any of them.
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
the debug mode is fantastic in this game you can spawn 30 dogs and control all of them at the same time with controller 2
Experienced player (953)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep
I think you can control "only" 2 person at a time, but with help of the debug mode you can change totaly the level design, i think the debug mode would be suited only for doing a playaround. As for the video up there, personnally i wouldnt be going for max speed but max score instead. Also the item to provide more speed (stage2 iirc) is only obtainable from max score.
Post subject: doggy mode
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
you can control all of them
Joined: 1/27/2009
Posts: 33
Location: UK
I can confirm what antd has said with great delight :D You can flood the screen with enemies all controlled by input 1 or 2 (controller 1 or 2). What's even better is you can assign weapons to them like arrows. My personal favourite is Stage 1 running around as 15 odd mice on the map while spamming arrows at enemies. Or using the bear in stage 3/4 (forget which) and making him "fire bear" LOL! Debug mode is great fun, but what use it would have outside of superplay exhibition im not sure. 100% stealth kills would make things interesting.
-Sinister,
Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 14
Oh hell yeah I love this game. Been waiting for years to see a TAS of it. Maybe it will even motivate me to do a speed run of it.
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
*Take a broom and sweep the dust* Hello here, I'm working on a TAS of this game and I was looking for a possible existing thread about this game. It's short but it exists :p So, first of all, I'll add some useful informations to the first message. Introduction
  • There are two levels od difficulty: Normal and Hard; then the game contains 10 levels and each level has 3 different ennemy layouts. This is very important because some layout favor a best ranking.
  • You get the ranking at the end of each level. From worst to best: Thug, Novice, Ninja, Master Ninja, Grand Master (400 pts required). It is in fact define by points earned as following:
    • 300 pts: Finishing the level
    • 100 pts: Never being spotted
    • 20 pts: Killing someone without have been spotted
    • 5 pts: Killing someone being spotted
    • lost 20 pts: Being spotted
    • lost 30pts: Killing an innocent
  • Before starting a level, you're able to carry on some items (10 max) but only 4 different types. These items are:
    • Shuriken
    • Healing Potion
    • Caltrops
    • Bombs
    • Smoke bombs
    • Mines
    • Poisoned Rice
    • Colored Rice
    • Grappling Hook: A special item automatically add; it has no inpact amongst 10 items.
  • There are also special items called "Grand master items". There are unlocked by obtaining Grand master ranking (400 pts for remain) in a level. I'll not detail all of them but only the most important which is unlocked in the 1st level. Note that you can store only 3 Grand master items ina all.
    • Lightfoot scroll: A temporary amazing speed boost
Ok, we've got all the bases. I'll now detail my routes and stategies. Planning The goal is to beat the game in hard mode with Rikimaru as fast as possible. In-game time can be viewed in the Option -> Record menu. You sum every level and you have it. I decided to TAS this game because I follow a french speedrunner called Sephyross (you can follow him on its twitch channel: http://en.twitch.tv/sephyross). He beats the game in hard in 13:25 ig time; Very probably the current WR) and I was so curious... The main problem of this game that the layout of each level can help you (or not, espacially in a single-segmented run). So, I've started this foolish work. Most part of my routes are largely inspired by his routes themselves originate from another excellent runner nammed Riskbreaker Y. You can view the speedrun here Rikimaru has been chosen because you have to defeat one less boss in the level 5. Obviously, it safes time. Furthermore, he has some interesting attacks (particulary the crouch attack). Each level is chained, that means we never go back to the main menu (in order to increase inventory items by redoing a level for example). In summary, it's an any% hard mode new game. We will use more lightfoot scroll as possible. I have found a way to manipulate the RNG in order to get excactly what I want. I'll explain it later. I can resume my route like this: Numbers meaning in order: Quantity, Required, Obtained / means that I don't care |Level|Scrolls| Bombs | Mines | |--------------------------------- | | 1 | 0 0 1 | 1 0 2 | 0 0 2 | |--------------------------------- | | 2 | 1 1 3 | 3 0 0 | 2 0 1 | |--------------------------------- | | 3 | 3 2 1 | 3 0 1 | 3 1 1 | |--------------------------------- | | 4 | 2 2 2 | 4 2 0 | 3 2 1 | |--------------------------------- | | 5 | 2 0 1 | 2 1 1 | 2 0 1 | |--------------------------------- | | 6 | 2 1 0 | 1 1 1 | 3 2 1 | |--------------------------------- | | 7 | 1 0 2 | 1 1 2 | 2 1 2 | |--------------------------------- | | 8 | 3 3 1 | 2 0 1 | 3 0 1 | |--------------------------------- | | 9 | 1 0 2 | 3 1 2 | 4 2 2 | |--------------------------------- | | 10 | 3 3 / | 4 4 / | 4 4 / | You have probably noticed that I don't speak about other items. It's because they don't deal any damage and that's so bad #TASpowaaa. Caltrops deals damage to purchasers, not interesting for a fight. Tricks
  • RNG: The base of the RNG is... time! (expressed in frame) If I want a specific layout, I just have to spend a certain amount of frame in the inventory before pressing START (and beginning level loading). That's why, in some case, there are few empty frames before pressing START. Also, additional items earn at the end of the level depends on time used to complete it. In level 2, I'm waiting for 12 frames before raising the cutscene; it allows me to get 3 lightfoot scrolls (very uncommon). Finally, ennemy's parry depends on when and how much you press the SQUARE button. So, I can make the parry never appends (so cheat :p).
  • Fall animation skip: Called by myself "FACS" (for Fall Animation "Cumulet" -Belgian Word for "Roulade" (roll, I guess it can be translated like this)- Skip). When you fall, the character will follow a strictly vertical way and make animation when he hit the ground. It costs some time. By making a roll (CIRCLE Then UP twice) just before falling, you'll follow a diagonal way and the animation doesn't happen.
  • Quick ennemy stand up: Still called by myself "Stabbing ovation". When you deal a crouch attack or throw a bomb, the ennemy flies, hits the ground, stays a certain amount of time on it (depending of his life) and then stands up. During all time he's on the ground, the foe is immune whatever the damage is. If you hit him when he's in the air, he will fly further. But if you deal a stabbing attack when he is hitting the ground, he'll instanly stand up, skipping a so boring dazing time. It also works with a crouch attack, but the recovery time is longer.
  • Quick half-turn: You're able to face back by doing a roll (CIRCLE then CROSS) but if you're doing it against a wall at a quite precise frame, entire animation will be skipped and you'll stand up face back.
Damage values
  • Triple combo (Rikimaru only):
    • 1st hit: 7
    • 2nd hit:11
    • 3rd hit: 20 (total 38)
  • Crouch attack (Rikimaru only): 25
  • Stabbing, Jump slash: 13
  • Left Right combo: 8 then 16 (total 24)
  • Shuriken: 20
  • Bomb: 30
  • Mine: 45
Mines are especially useful at the very beginning of a fight and for a suicide kill . It deals really lots of damages but it takes time to place it. Useful RAM address
  • Byte values:
    • Inventory Shuriken Count: 0001 040D
    • Inventory Calltrops Count: 0001 040E
    • Inventory Healing Potion Count: 0001 040F
    • Inventory Bomb Count: 0001 0410
    • Inventory Smoke Count: 0001 0411
    • Inventory Mine Count: 0001 0412
    • Inventory Poisened rice Count: 0001 0413
    • Inventory Colored rice Count: 0001 0414
    • Inventory Sleeping Gas Count: 0001 0415
    • Inventory Resurection leaf Count: 0001 0416
    • Inventory Chameleon spell Count: 0001 0417
    • Inventory Protection amulet Count: 0001 0418
    • Inventory Lightfoot srcoll Count: 0001 0419
    • Inventory Shadow Decoy Count: 0001 041A
    • Inventory Super-Shurkien Count: 0001 041B
    • Inventory Dog Bone Count: 0001 041C
    • Inventory Fire-Eater scroll Count: 0001 041D
    • Inventory Decoy whistle Count: 0001 041E
    • Inventory Ninja armor Count: 0001 041F
    • ----------------------------------------------
    • Stealth kills counter: 0009 5918
    • Spotted counter: 0009 591A
    • Detected kills counter: 0009 591C
    • ----------------------------------------------
  • Word values:
    • ----------------------------------------------
  • DWord values:
    • Elapsed Time: 0009 44C0
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
And here is my WIP: Link to video It starts from console power on to the end of the level 5. You can view each level and other WIP of them here. Hope you enjoy :)
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
your movement looks very wide in some places, are you making sure to take the shortest path possible when turning etc.? because it doesn’t look like it your TAS reminded me of this game, now I want to play it again… lol edit: I just checked the first post’s TAS, and your TAS is bad, the very first hook throw is slower compared to the first post’s TAS, and there are other places/strategies where you’re slower (there are also places where you’re faster, but a new TAS should be faster everywhere compared to an older one) / your boss fights and the part after the first boss all seem to be faster, but there are a few places in the first part where you lose time like I’ve already mentioned
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
In the first post, he beats the level in 1:03 and I beat it in 59 seconds. I agree with you, first hook can clearly be faster (that's why it's a WIP :p). Using a second time the hookshot takes a little bit more than the jump I use. I test it. And about other levels, you're often obliged to take a large turn due to collisions. A good example is the torch at the 2nd level. I promise, 1 more frame to the right makes me collide within it...
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Hâthor wrote:
In the first post, he beats the level in 1:03 and I beat it in 59 seconds. I agree with you, first hook can clearly be faster (that's why it's a WIP :p). Using a second time the hookshot takes a little bit more than the jump I use. I test it. And about other levels, you're often obliged to take a large turn due to collisions. A good example is the torch at the 2nd level. I promise, 1 more frame to the right makes me collide within it...
Instead of fixing it through painless going through all of it again just open it with Notepad... ++. loved the run, just needs to be fixed up ;) Need to play this game again... D:
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Joined: 7/10/2007
Posts: 280
Hah, really nice skip at the end of level 5. Looking forward to this one.
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
Spikestuff wrote:
Instead of fixing it through painless going through all of it again just open it with Notepad... ++
Yeah, it works... some times :p. You can't imagine how it may desync just by removing one frame o_O. (Maybe I miss something)
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
A more up-to-date WIP. By re-wtaching the previous one, I realize how much I enhanced some parts. Also, it includes the brand new level 6. Link to video Enjoy! :)
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
hey Hathor, I’ve been playing this game since seeing your TAS, later I’ll comment about the TAS but atm I have a question is it possible to double jump mid-air? how is it done? I accidentally did it while playing, but I wasn’t able to do it again no matter how many times I tried… I think when it happened I was just holding UP and mashing the jump button, but I can’t do it anymore edit: oh and I found a small glitch with the hook, you can grab ledges and have a wrong body orientation, basically grabbing on air, but I think if you press UP you just fall off so it’s not very useful I’m sure this game has potential for having some big glitches, though edit2: “in Tenchu 1 if you do any sort of jump where your take off point is higher than you landing point and you hit jump in the air at the right time you do a second jump in the air.” I’ve tried it a lot and only got it 2 times for now, though…
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
Hey Alaktorn o/ Happy to see you feel like playing this game :D. Well, I ignore it was possible o_O. It can be very useful... even if I don't know where and how yet :p. Yeah definitely, I agree with you. This game contains a big potiential (espacially when I see how the A.I can be so stupid sometime). Looking foward to read your comments, an external opinion will always be welcomed :). PS: Lvl 7 and 8 will be released tonight on my youtube channel.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
a few ideas I got: have you tried attacking when doing the UP+UP+CROSS jump? I think attacking makes the jump a bit longer (may be faster for 1st level and others), or you could try doing the double jump but it doesn’t always work 1st level: are you sure it’s faster to use the hook ASAP at the start of the level? at the start, the camera isn’t focused forward, and the hook is shot in the direction of the camera, so maybe if you walked forward a little until the camera is in place and then used the hook it could be faster 2nd level: have you tried starting the level with the hook? I was able to hook the furthermost roof by just pressing TRIANGLE at the start with no additional input, but when I flew I didn’t actually reach that roof but the one before, which makes it slower; but if it’s possible to reach the furthermost roof then it would be faster (I’m pretty sure, I made a comparison with videos) 3rd level: video of a different strategy, maybe it’s faster? and I have a question: how did you make those movements at the end of the level 6 boss fight? O_o you did the CIRCLE+CROSS move and attacked while doing it, and after you threw the shuriken you made a weird jump
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
The only problem of attacking is the sooooo (very relatives) long recovery time. That's why I avoid it. For the 1st level, I'm sure it can be done in 58 seconds (instead of 59). Quite good idea to start walking a bit and then use the hook. 2nd level: I made some try with the hook but nothing really interresting. I agree with the fact that if we can reach the 2nd roof, it will be faster but I have to lost this small gain in order to get items I want (remeber RNG manipulation). Is it still interresting? 3rd level: Pretty cool! If I have well looked, it's faster for about 2seconds. In this level, I don't care about items RNG because I get "Ninja" rank (+1 item of each type). Quite simple for movements you speak about: UP, DOWN, SQUARE it makes you roll,faceback and attack. You've probably notice that I didn't hit the boss but, I oblige him to dodge and he takes damages from the manjicultist (the NPC who throw flames). Then I just pressed TRIANGLE to threw a shuriken and the final movement is DOWN, UP, CROSS. You can find movement list here. Just take care about some movement, the last one I spoke for example. It is written: DOWN, UP + CROSS and no, each button has to be pressed separately.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Hâthor wrote:
The only problem of attacking is the sooooo (very relatives) long recovery time. That's why I avoid it.
I thought about that, and it looked like the recovery time was the same with UP+UP+CROSS thanks for that list, I can’t believe I never figured out the diagonal backwards movement, that would’ve helped lol
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
I reproduce the double jump easyly in the level 1. I even guess it's a little bit faster than using the other jump. And most important, it's more fun to watch :D. If it's possible, I'll use it in the level 3. I don't see any other place. (In the level 5 and 7, distance to cover is really big, too much for such a jump).
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Hâthor wrote:
I reproduce the double jump easyly in the level 1. I even guess it's a little bit faster than using the other jump. And most important, it's more fun to watch :D.
that’s cool, have you tried doing a double jump instead of the CIRCLE, UP, UP to go down the roof? it may be faster if you can do it
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
Around 2 year ago, I did a test TAS up to the 2-3 level(I'm still unsure about the exact number), but somehow now I couldn't get it to sync. I might try to check that again. That said, on level 1 when you fight the first dude in the house, I believe it's faster to exit by the normal door and use the hook, than using the entrance at roof again.
Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
58 seconds for level 1 !!!! : Link to video I wasn't able to double jump to go down the roof. A simple jump takes more time than the roll. So I still used the roll. BadPotato: I get desync just after the 2nd dude (called Katanal). It's probably faster by exiting the normal door but... You're spotted by a guard and I can't afford because I MUST reach the Grand Master Rank (lightfoot scroll *_*). But it's a really good idea if someone (maybe me?) wants to do the "Lithgfoot scoll-less" run. Sephyross, Riskbreaker y and I are agree about the fact that both run have to be distinct.
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 3999
Lightfoot scroll vs no lightfoot scroll isn't a very good category distinction. Whatever way is fastest should be used and called any%.
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Player (103)
Joined: 1/4/2013
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
We choose that due to the fact that ennemy layout is random when you make classic single segment speedrun. As I already explain, lightfoot scroll is unlocked by obtaining the grand master ranking at the end of the first level. 1 ennemy layout over 3 is favourable to this. Ok, it has less meaning in a TAS but in my own opinion, start making 36 categories is likely to cause confusions.
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