Topic by ALAKTORN

Posted: 8/9/2014 6:12 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

xxNKxx wrote:

Wa, I was rewarch. I got consusion upload wrong file I'm sorry, here's it: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16602892649622269

Wow, oh my god, my other strategy is actually faster.

ALAKTORN wrote:

~~edit: I found another Echigoya strategy which may be even faster, I’ll make a vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5JJeEdy6SA&t=37s~~ edit2: wow nevermind, the in-game timer is bad… it stops counting when Echigoya hits the ground, not when you kill him, so this strategy is bad…

Saved 7 frames with it without even TASing, just real-time human play. Here’s the thing: Echigoya’s death cutscene only starts when all models are in a stopped position (including your own), if you kill him with the Crouch+Square attack, he will spend a lot of time in the air, thus delaying the death cutscene. You can avoid this by making him fall on top of the boxes with the Crouch+Square, but I don’t know if it’s possible to do that fast. My other strategy kills him with the Up-Down-Square attack, so Echigoya doesn’t fly in the air and the death cutscene starts much earlier. Here’s a video to display what I mean with Echigoya’s and your model need to be stopped for the cutscene to start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb4YvhUHWyA Also sad news though: I can’t find shit in this game’s RAM. No speed, no RNG. Edit: I’m trying to figure out a better Echigoya strategy, I’ve found a glitch where if you trade the first hit with his gun, you do 20 damage with for example a Right+Square attack which normally only does 8 damage, or even just the Square 7 damage attack. I think I did it with the Crouch+Square attack too, but that’s −5 damage so it’s not useful lol. Probably possible with all attacks, just listing the ones I got. Edit2: wow, I just got shot, flew in the air, and took no damage. O_o This game is weird. Couldn’t figure out a better strategy so I just TAS’d that one. I never could’ve imagined how much of a pain in the ass TASing this game would be… anyway, I managed to save 8 frames over NK’s movie. /// Saved 2 more frames by redoing the final attack in RTA, lmao… NK you should try TASing my other strategy (linked in the quote above), I got the death cutscene to start at frame 8864 with it.

Posted: 8/10/2014 2:21 AM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

My previous post is getting a little long so I’ll just make a new one now… I was able to get Grand Master on stage 2 with Ayame using 2 Lightfoot Scroll and the normal TAS route, but idk if that’s actually of any interest to the TAS or not. Layout was #2. Edit: dumping some item info: Fire-Eater Scroll does 50 damage (25+25) but it’s slow, Super Shuriken does 30 and it’s fast. Also the Protection Amulet raises attack, Ayame’s crouch+square normally does 16 (8+8) but with it it does 32 (16+16); it’s probably too slow to activate to be useful though. Super Shuriken looks really good, couldn’t it be used somewhere? Edit: oh, is it unlocked with Training…? :/ Then I guess it can’t be used.

Posted: 8/10/2014 9:38 AM

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NhatNM

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Experienced player (705)

Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

Thanks your test results. But I think first we need find the lucky, how to get 3 boost items in every stage. Good strategies will nothing if need wait long time for get that items

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/10/2014 10:46 AM

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NhatNM

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Posts: 600
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My cutscene start at 8878 Btw, tried delay time, changed last hit, but the lucky still not change. Every items hav same

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/10/2014 12:56 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Player (99)

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

xxNKxx wrote:

Btw, tried delay time, changed last hit, but the lucky still not change. Every items hav same

Yeah, I know. I tried a lot changing what kinda items I’d get, but they never ever did. And I can’t find the RNG address either. The only thing I didn’t try was starting the level at a different time, maybe that could change the items you get… maybe it’s even dependent on the layout? I don’t think what Hathor said was true (that he waited 12 frames to get 3 scrolls), I’ll check his movie later to see if he would’ve gotten 3 scrolls no matter how much he waited… What do you mean the cutscene starts at 8878 for you? Have you not tried my other strategy?

Posted: 8/10/2014 1:22 PM

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NhatNM

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Experienced player (705)

Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

No, I tried your strategy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5JJeEdy6SA&t=37s Don't know why it have later your run. Here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16621945112812605 Btw, Can you make enable debug mode cheat in game for me? I want try this for test start stage frames. I can't open that menu, don'y know why... :(

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/10/2014 2:35 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

You did the Right+Square attack way too late. Here’s my improvement movie: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16623087999209065 I’m not sure why you need Debug Mode? Can’t you just hex the movie file to start later? Edit: I’ve just tested this a bit but there is no change in items… I still only get 1 Lightfoot Scroll. Edit: I tried cheating to give myself 810 points, but still only got 1 Lightfoot Scroll. I’m running out of ideas. Edit: I’m playing around on stage 2’s ending in Hathor’s movie now. He does indeed get 3 scrolls by slowing down at the end… but I don’t understand what affects it exactly. I’m trying to do random stuff, and 99% of the time I only get 1 of them. I was able to get 2 of them once by being hit by the enemies a lot, but never 3. I even copied his score and in-game time, but that also only gave me 1 scroll, so it shouldn’t be related to rank/score/time… I also found that you can unload the final enemy depending on your scroll usage timing, weird stuff…

Posted: 8/10/2014 3:36 PM

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NhatNM

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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

I'm thinking about start stage frames. If test it then I need something can help me beat game fast Ya, I know your test on stage 2, I said before, I can't understand too

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/10/2014 3:52 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

xxNKxx wrote:

I'm thinking about start stage frames. If test it then I need something can help me beat game fast

You can test that easily by hexing the movie file. Just open it in Notepad++ or something and add empty frames before the “X” to select the level. I’ve tried already, and still only got 1 scroll… Edit: made a video on the damage glitch in the Echigoya fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-11EkFTSqjQ Edit: holy crap I just manipulated them to be 0. O_o It’s random, but at least I’ve been able to manipulate the amount by just stopping for a few frames at the end each time… I have savestates with 0, 1, 2, and 3 now; maybe it’ll help me find the RNG address. /// It didn’t. Shuriken suicide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc9oecydBd8

Posted: 8/10/2014 8:00 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

I think the item management can be improved. 3 Shuriken for Echigoya would make the fight tons faster, and a bomb for the samurai would probably help. I’m trying to figure out a fast samurai strategy but the execution is hard as balls. With a bomb, my idea is to use it at the start and trade, then either do the 3-slash combo ×2 (this is definitely possible and faster than what we’re currently doing), or something tons harder like Left+Square, then an Up-Down-Square loop combo. I’ve never gotten the loop to work, but maybe it’s possible; it would be faster than the 3-slashes combo I think. Without a bomb, it should still be faster to do the Up-Down-Square loop right from the beginning if possible. Edit: wow the samurai is only attacking me once at the beginning now, so I can’t get the trade off the bomb… Anyway, improved 30 frames in the samurai fight without items. I used Right-Square-Left-Square to finish him off instead of the crouching attack, that thing sure was overrated. I got lucky though because an enemy by the door hits me, and that cancels my attack animation right after the kill, which actually saves most of the 30 frames. :) Edit: oh fuck, the enemy counts as spotting me, I got Ninja. =_= I only improve 6 frames without being spotted… /// 8 frames saved now… /// I think 22 saved now not bad. /// Saved 32 frames without being spotted, wow! Death cutscene starts at 6346. While TASing him I also noticed that you can do the 3-slash combo while looking around with L1, and it changes the direction of the combo a little. Could be useful… Fucking hell the movie now desynchs right after exiting the roof I think, and Echigoya doesn’t trigger, it needs to be re-TAS’d. It was triggered at 7844 before my improvement, so we should at least trigger it at 7812 now. Movie: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16629881212467726 On a side note: I hate this emulator so much, you have no idea. This is definitely the last TAS I ever touch on PS.

Posted: 8/11/2014 1:51 AM

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NhatNM

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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

Hmmm Sorry my english isn't good, hard for say all I want. About use shurikens, it can help the stage 1 faster but in other stage we'll slower. It's ok if use bombs can help faster I just want target about lucky for get items. Something need test: start stage frames, start meet boss frames, number enemies detected/suspect Don't sad or disappointment, the way still have long

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/11/2014 2:07 AM

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NhatNM

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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

I think better we need chat on skype. My skype: nhatnm1

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/11/2014 4:30 AM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

xxNKxx wrote:

About use shurikens, it can help the stage 1 faster but in other stage we'll slower.

What stages? For Stage 3’s boss, Hathor used a mine and had left 3 Shuriken, Echigoya only needs 3 Shuriken.

xxNKxx wrote:

I just want target about lucky for get items.

I don’t think we’ll ever understand that… someone with really good technical knowledge would be needed to do some debugging or something.

xxNKxx wrote:

Something need test: start stage frames, start meet boss frames, number enemies detected/suspect

1. Tested a little and doesn’t seem to change anything. 2. Tested a little and I don’t think that changes anything. 3. Tested more than a little and I don’t think that changes anything. I think in the first stage you can only get 1 Lightfoot Scroll. In the second stage it’s a lot easier to manipulate them, while for the first stage it never changed. That time I got 2 of them was while re-playing the stage after beating the game, and I think I might’ve been playing on Normal, so it probably doesn’t count. I added you on Skype.

Posted: 8/11/2014 4:43 AM

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NhatNM

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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

ALAKTORN wrote:

I don’t think we’ll ever understand that… someone with really good technical knowledge would be needed to do some debugging or something.

Not really that, some my games with lucky control was do without any technical knowledge. Just need find the core can change lucky

ALAKTORN wrote:

That time I got 2 of them

Yes, it's. We need know why it have more than 1. The reason :)

ALAKTORN wrote:

I added you on Skype.

Me too :D

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists

Posted: 8/11/2014 4:42 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

xxNKxx wrote:

ALAKTORN wrote:
That time I got 2 of them
Yes, it's. We need know why it have more than 1. The reason :)

I think it was because it was a re-visit. I have a theory: when you unlock a new Grand Master item, you only get 1 of it; then in subsequent plays you can manipulate the amount. Items at the start are always these, both in Normal and Hard difficulties: 6 Shuriken, 2 Healing Potion, 6 Caltrops, 1 Grenade 1 Smoke Bomb, 0 Mines, 3 Poison Rice, 5 Colored Rice Debug Mode works for me, just follow the inputs correctly and without being slow. Edit: after Grand Master stage 1 (no item): 8 Shuriken, 4 Healing Potion, 8 Caltrops, 3 Grenade 3 Smoke Bomb, 2 Mines, 5 Poison Rice, 7 Colored Rice +2 all, guess it’s based on rank. Edit: lol if you jump when coming up from crouching you get pushed to the right.

Posted: 8/11/2014 11:37 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
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Uh, where were we… me and NK improved stage 1 even further, he implemented the Shuriken strategy for Echigoya saving quite a big amount (I think like 200 frames), then I improved movement to Katanal by aligning myself better with the hole and doing a dashjump attack which is faster than no attack; it saved 8 frames total. Then I tested out a different “method” of quick-turning, which turned out to be much faster and saved to Echigoya without even using rerecords. Echigoya’s death cutscene starts at 8610 now; 49 in-game seconds. Movie: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16653654741458461 Still lots of improvements left to be done (especially going to Echigoya), but I’m tired now and next time I TAS I wanna try to find some useful RAM addresses… it’s too hard to TAS without any. Oh, and could someone make an encode of this? Always interested to watch new speedruns:

BadPotato wrote:

Around 2 year ago, I did a test TAS up to the 2-3 level(I'm still unsure about the exact number), but somehow now I couldn't get it to sync. I might try to check that again.

Edit: I’m searching Nicovideo for TASes, and found a 45″ max score Training TAS with Rikimaru: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22575512 Nothing particularly good, but still interesting. This one’s pretty interesting: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18878922 I have no idea what levels it’s playing, but the playing is good and it used infinite jumps in 2012. He even gets a double kill on the same enemy. O_o Holy shit this guy beats Onikage in 3 attacks in the last level: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18161739 O_o 34″ Grand Master training level with Rikimaru: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17445886 There don’t seem to be other interesting videos.

Posted: 8/12/2014 3:15 PM
(Edited: 9/25/2014 3:44 PM)

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

NK implemented my idea of the Up-Down-Square loop on Katanal, and improved 28 frames; 48″ in-game now: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16668123079340118 I’m still testing a new path in the beginning, haven’t gotten it to work yet… Lower path is about 10 frames faster, but not being spotted is really hard. Edit: outdated, would only be faster if we could go through the wall now. Enemies: 1st layout: 1 archer, 1 samurai, 1 lancer guard; then at Echigoya nobody: is it possible? 2nd layout: 1 lancer, 1 archer; then at Echigoya 1 samurai guard: currently wastes 21 frames to manipulate this layout, which would make it slower anyway 3rd layout: 1 archer on the wooden platform, guy sleeping in the hole room; then at Echigoya 1 dog going up-down, 2 samurai guards: roof guy wakes up when going to Echigoya, impossible?

Posted: 8/13/2014 11:09 AM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

I TAS’d Katanal myself and was able to improve by 16 frames, but the last hit is still terrible and I can’t improve it… I used 1/4 of the current total rerecords just on it, lol. Then I hexed the whole movie together, but it desynched right after… I hate subpixel carryover. =_= Luckily though, while trying to synch it (read: TASing through hexing), I ended up improving 2 more frames.

Which tells me it’s still improvable, just like Katanal should still be. :( Still 48″ in-game. Movie: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16686535046609811 TASing tip for the future: Down+Left/Right seems best done only on 2 frames before running forward.

Posted: 8/14/2014 4:16 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

NK improved 8 frames going to Echigoya and somehow improved 2 in the fight. O_o Still 48″ in-game. Whelp, I was about to make an encode for level 1 but then I remembered to test an idea I had of a “new” way to dash and now we potentially have to redo the whole level. Edit: explanation: while running forward, instead of doing Nothing,Up,Nothing,Up for a dash, you can Up+Left/Right,Up,Nothing,Up and usually save at least 2 frames because you kept walking forward more. The way this works is because the input for a dash is Up,Nothing,Up, but if you’re already holding down Up to run forward, the game doesn’t read it as a dash, so you have to “reset” your input by pressing a different direction (or nothing). Up+Right/Left works but so do Down, Right/Left or any other movement combination; sadly it must be a movement so Up+L2/R2 doesn’t work as a reset. Also another thing on optimization: infinite jumps are faster than walking, so I’d expect that doing them ASAP is the fastest way. The way infinite jumps work is by pressing the jump button at a specific frame near the end of the jump’s animation; so long as you get enough air time for the animation to progress to that frame, you can do infinite jumps. Before we kinda theorized that you needed to jump from a high place or something but that’s completely wrong, all you need is enough air time for the animation to get to the point where you can jump mid-air, which basically means that you can do them wherever except for on flat ground. Item tests ending stage 2 in the same way (rank cheats): Thug: +2 Lightfoot Scroll, +1 Poison Rice = 3 total, manipulable Novice: +3 Lightfoot Scroll, +2 Poison Rice = 5 total, manipulable Ninja: +1 Lightfoot Scroll, +1 else = 9 total, not able to manipulate Master Ninja: +4 Lightfoot Scroll, +1 else except +3 Poison Rice: Shows 4 in RAM, but it turns into 3 at item selection… = 14 total (1 is actually removed because LS cap at 3), manipulable Grand Master: +2 everything, +1 Fire-Eater Scroll = 19 total, not manipulable It seems like the best rank is Master Ninja, which can give +3 Lightfoot Scroll (maxed? tried cheating to 5 and 255, but it still got cut to 3) but also many of the other items which are also useful (Shuriken, Mines, Grenades). Grand Master is pretty good, but probably should never be gotten… +1 Lightfoot Scroll saves a lot of time and the extra Shuriken/Mines/Grenades probably don’t make up for it. Edit: is this the RTA WR? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW3DwDB6KBY

Posted: 8/14/2014 11:20 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

New post time.

ALAKTORN wrote:

so you have to “reset” your input by pressing a different direction (or nothing). Up+Right/Left works but so do Down, Right/Left or any other movement combination; sadly it must be a movement so Up+L2/R2 doesn’t work as a reset.

Up+Select works!!! It’s also easy to do RTA, awesome trick. Also looks kinda wtf-ish so it should be nice for the TAS. I think I found the XYZ RAM addresses too, finally. That took some time. Not sure what else I should try to find other than speed, RNG is a lost cause. Edit: oh I forgot to mention that normally if you hold down Select, you can’t do any dash-type movements. This could also be useful if there is ever a situation where we need to do something like Right,Nothing,Right to align and don’t want the dash. Btw I made an IL RTA of the first level which is a “WR”, kinda shows you the TAS strategies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu0-aXf6398

Posted: 8/16/2014 9:22 PM
(Edited: 8/16/2014 11:17 PM)

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

After finding all kinds of RAM shit and having David make me a Lua script I started TASing from the beginning and I’m saving more than 30 frames going to Katanal (new strategy too). Too bad infinite walljumping is impossible, I had in mind such a goddamned majestic strategy…

SEVENTH POST IN A ROW NOBODY CAN STOP ME

Edit: something to keep in mind: on the first few frames it’s faster to turn with L/R rather than DL/DR… so for really short turns L/R are best. 38 frames saved to Katanal, I’m stopping now. Don’t know if it’s optimized or whatever, but I’m seriously not suited for TASing, this shit is too hard, I don’t care anymore. 47″ in-game. Running to Echigoya needs re-TASing with the Up+Select trick; 8512 current Echigoya death cutscene. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/16764370457160118

Posted: 8/16/2014 10:50 PM

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Patashu

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Posts: 4017

I'm looking forward to the definitive version of this TAS for sure. Great to see you two breaking it open! Maybe we'll get to stage 2 this month, hehe!

My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu

Posted: 8/16/2014 11:14 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
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Patashu wrote:

I'm looking forward to the definitive version of this TAS for sure. Great to see you two breaking it open! Maybe we'll get to stage 2 this month, hehe!

How dare you break my posting chain, someone ban this guy! J/k it’s nice to know there are people who care. Hopefully this won’t be added to my list of dropped projects (MvsDK2, AWDS, SM64DS somewhat…). I lose motivation really quickly. TASing is hard.

Posted: 10/18/2014 5:34 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
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Thanks to the helpful programming of my friend STL I found the RNG. :) 0x000C55E8, 4 bytes xxNKxx, you can play around with it and see what you can find out if you want, I just wanted to try finding the address, I won’t be working on the run for another while I think. Edit: something very interesting, I think the RNG is reset to 0 after each level. This means that hex editing would be super easy if the only difference is luck. Edit2: I think it’s at least 31 bits big. Maybe 32, maybe the 32th bit is used to determine sign? I don’t know. /// Nvm calculated wrongly, 1073123057 is still only 30 bits. 1073741824 would be 31.

Posted: 10/19/2014 11:11 AM

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NhatNM

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Experienced player (705)

Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam

Huh? I don't know how to use this magic :D Edit: Woot, I got it, I'll try it now

A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists