Allows continues in the game/Also can wait for counting down and add new player
Hardest mode
History
history Metal Slug - Super Vehicle-001 (c) 1996 Nazca.
A scrolling 'run-and-gun' platform game for one or two players, Metal Slug is a humorous parody of war and specifically of World War II and the Nazis.
The game features six enemy-packed levels, referred to as 'missions'. Players start the game armed only with a pistol, but extra weapons can be picked up and used for greater firepower. Also, at certain points during a level players will find an unused 'Super Vehicle-001' - or Metal Slug - tank which can be entered and driven. The Metal Slug is slow-moving but has very powerful weapons. If the Slug takes too many hits it will break down and start to flash, the player must then quickly exit the vehicle before it explodes. The enemy troops also have vehicles at their disposal, such as tanks, boats and helicopters.
The levels are littered with bearded hostages who, when rescued, award players with either points bonuses (in the form of medals) or weapon power-ups. Available weapons are Heavy Machine Gun, Flame Shot, Rocket Launcher and Shotgun. Hand grenades are also available.
Each level ends with at least one large enemy 'Boss' vehicle that takes many hits to destroy. Once the boss has been destroyed, bonus points are awarded for each prisoner rescued. Further bonus points are awarded if the player's Metal Slug vehicle has survived the boss battle.
Summary
MISSION 1
Get Shortgun and Mechinegun to fight with boss.
Jumping over tank to avoid another tank and control the dropping place.
MISSION 2
Gun and Bombs are enough.
MISSION 3
Gun and Bombs are enough.Manipulate luck to get shortgun and mechinegun.
MISSION 4
Getting Shortgun and mechinegun.Bombs are too many.
MISSION 5
There is not many guns can be used.So dying player-1 2 lives for the dying in the MISSION 6.
MISSION 6
Add coin this time.If player-1 not die.One more group of the enemies' soldiers will climb down.
Shortguns are not enough to reach the boss.The mechine gun won't disappear for waiting such a long time in metal slug 1.
Hitting boss and control the way he go.
DarkKobold: For consistency, I'll look into this one as well.
DarkKobold: This discussion is getting out of hand - I am locking this submission, and delaying judgment until we come to consensus on using continues in arcade games.
DarkKobold: The community has spoken, and they want to decide on movies that use continues. This one was poorly received, and is being rejected... however...
Joined: 12/22/2006
Posts: 193
Location: Flowood, MS
my problem is that in any non-assisted run of an arcade game, there's absolutely no question about it: don't continue. it's a tas, and tases aren't about skill, I understand, but continuing just cheapens the experience for me. therefore, my personal opinion on the matter is that it shouldn't be published.
<adelikat> tony hawk is porn for me
<Comicalflop>my mom is hot
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
My encode was captured.
I will upload it tomorrow.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Don't make it Arcade VS Other Platform, Rules should be same for all platform
I disagree. Arcades work in a different way than consoles (in the sense that you can't play them if you don't have some change to spare), so having rules that only apply to them isn't illogical (that is, if they are related to this money).
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3
xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D
Help improving TASVideos!
First of all, the submission states it perfectly clear
"Take damage to save time
Take death to save time"
IF death OR damage can save up time while aiming for fastest time then what the hell is wrong with using continues?... I mean, the first time I finished the Metal Slug arcade (which was set in hardest difficulty... bastard arcade manager) I used more or less 25 credits, so what's the REAL difference here?.
ALSO take in consideration here in Metal Slug is a one hit game (one hit and you're dead, no healt bars or such) look at the other movies were they take damage and they are easily touched more than 3 or 4 times for stage which in Metal Slug means 3 or 4 lives FOR stage (talking about being fair?)
Remember this run is aiming for fastest time so using any strategy is completly acceptable, I know many people here expects a no-death run (I admit I also get a bit disappointed everytime I see the character die everytime someone or me play a Metal Slug game) but that would sacrifice A LOT OF TIME (for example in Metal Slug X level 5, train wagons). So I think this "issue" is more of a "feeling of greatness" than actual efficency.
Another counter argument for coins would be that if a game-over and continue would be faster on the console, it would be allowed. Of course I don't have a strong opinion either way. Looking forward to an encode.
We have allowed "Game Over"-Screens in other games (especially N64 when soft reset is not available), why shouldn't it be allowed here? It's about speed and if throwing in coins is faster than playing normally, it's perfectly OK with me. This is not a "Takes no damage"-run.
No death will take more no votes.~~
"Why not use death,that may be faster,no vote"
If take death,continue is necessary for arcade.
What can you do?
You just watch that death and kill all the effert I do.Just like:
"Haha,what a stupid man,he is dead,he use coins,I can beat this game only by 1 life!"
This isn't a enough reason for me to give up this series.
Only the different understanding method spread all over the world.
I'm working on metal slug 3&X level-8 now.Maybe some other games' movies would be published earlier.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
x2poet, thanks for making these runs! I really liked your 2-player X run, and I'm sorry the decision went the way it did. I look forward to watching this once the encode is up.
Derakon, thanks for the summary of points in the argument! I have a few more points to contribute on the pro-death argument.
* Finding effective ways to use death, which actually save time, is not easy. If done properly, this can be very impressive.
--> For one example, see the Ganbare Goemon 2 run. That run uses continues, but they don't break the pace too much, because the skips accomplished via death are amazing. Also, see the Toy Story run for the Genesis.
* Arcade games weren't structured around having multiple lives and continues, unlike home consoles. Thus, there really is no alternative to death abuse except for using coins. (However, some could argue that this difference between arcades and home consoles makes the no-death condition more interesting. I don't personally believe that.)
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
For Heavens sake, what does it matter how many continues the player uses? This is not a run about how many deaths he concedes, it's about how fast he can complete the game. Isn't that what a TAS is all about?
As it was said, a TASer is a super-human, so he obviously has unlimited money :D
Superhuman could also edit memory directly, so what?
If coin-feeding is accepted, this will mean that coin-using must be as effective as possible. So I foresee arcade runs using enormous amounts of coins every level. By the way, does this run uses coins optimally?
Unlike healthbar, coins are unlimited (unless player makes decision to limit the number to some arguable value, like 4 coins per game), so there's little of management skill in distributing coins.
Nevertheless I think coin-abusing should have its own category, allowing to have at least 2 TASes for any arcade game (one that uses coins and one that doesn't).
For Heavens sake, what does it matter how many continues the player uses? This is not a run about how many deaths he concedes, it's about how fast he can complete the game. Isn't that what a TAS is all about?
Sure. However, TASes are also rated on their entertainment value. They're not just technical demonstrations of what is possible, they're videos meant to entertain the viewer. By that standard, I was left unsatisfied by this movie for the reasons I stated in my previous post. I don't think that's unreasonable.
003c crashes more easily.
And may take more desync.
Only have a availiable function "slow down",but only to 10%,set to 5% will crash and you must reset the key.
I'll give this a YES-vote.
Using continues has been used before in my opinion, such as in Zelda 1 for example, (the reset to save time is a type of continue). Reset can also be used in several other games in various ways.
I think this run is legit as a TAS.
Cheers.
I haven't watched this movie yet, but I think I can contribute to the resolution of this dispute. I'll quote some comments from #2985: x2poet's Arcade Metal Slug X in 18:24.47 as well as those on this thread.
DarkKobold wrote:
However, the biggest issue is the use of continues, ...
So, essentially, you use money to buy a stronger position, which I would equate to the use of a cheat code.
The game developer, who sets the rules of the very game, permits and expects you (and everyone else) to use money to buy that position! But of course, you can boycott this rule by not taking any advantage from it or even quiting the game.
moozooh wrote:
As much as I like this run otherwise, I have to vote no because it uses continues, and as such cannot be qualified as beating the game.
As it was said, a TASer is a super-human, so he obviously has unlimited money :D
AnS wrote:
Unlike healthbar, coins are unlimited (unless player makes decision to limit the number to some arguable value, like 4 coins per game), so there's little of management skill in distributing coins.
Coins can't be unlimited in any finite TAS, as the player can only feed a limited number of coins due to logical and physical limitations. So a form of distribution of coins will always exist and the player will manage it there.
Also, it is just because being able to feed more than the minimal number of coins required to play the game that there is the coin management skill in a TAS. That's to say, that adds something to the TAS.
AnS wrote:
If coin-feeding is accepted, this will mean that coin-using must be as effective as possible.
darkszero wrote:
I say it's more that the continue was badly planned and executed than the fact itself that you used one.
I'd say the following would increase the entertaining value of a continue in such run:
Add all credits you plan to use at the beginning of the run. Doing so when the "Continue?" screen appears makes it look like "Oh shit, I've out of lives! Where's my extra coin?".
This can be analogized with ammo management. We expect the player to forsee how many ammo he will need and to collect only the necesary amount, but we don't require the player to finish the collection as soon as possible. Couldn't we see it the way that the player forsees running out of lives and just feed the coins at the last moment without wasting time?
Derakon wrote:
Against use of coins:
* Humans judge their skill at arcade games by how many credits they need to complete the game. TASes are superhuman gameplay. Requiring the use of multiple credits is not superhuman.
I think humans also judge their skill at console games by how little they need to use emulator tools to complete the game. Requiring the use of savestates is not superhuman.
By the way, is someone superhuman still human?
KennyMan666 wrote:
Yes you do. Using continues will make it look far, far more foolish.
In my opinion, avoid killing the enemies in a action game, shooting game, etc. is even more foolish (and hypocritical). But there are people who enjoy "pacificist" runs of them. And people can stick to their own opinions. Nothing's wrong.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Atma wrote:
In an arcade game, especially one such as this, 1CCing it (even better if you didn't die) is far more entertaining to watch than sloppy death and continuing, even if there is a speed tradeoff.
not in my opinion, that's subjective
I agree with ALAKTORN on this. See the examples above.
AnS wrote:
So I foresee arcade runs using enormous amounts of coins every level.
But not for every game, I could fortell that, as what has happened to some other categories.
AnS wrote:
Nevertheless I think coin-abusing should have its own category, allowing to have at least 2 TASes for any arcade game (one that uses coins and one that doesn't).
Maybe per-game.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
klmz wrote:
I haven't watched this movie yet, but I think I can contribute to the resolution of this dispute. I'll quote some comments from #3025: x2poet's Arcade Metal Slug in 12:23.17 as well as those on this thread.
You mentioned the same thread twice.
Also, we meant that coins are VIRTUALLY unlimited (as they ARE virtual for we use emulators)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I haven't watched this movie yet, but I think I can contribute to the resolution of this dispute. I'll quote some comments from #3025: x2poet's Arcade Metal Slug in 12:23.17 as well as those on this thread.
You mentioned the same thread twice.
Because I posted this on the wrong thread. :/
But yeah I guess it's easier to fix this problem by editing the post here.
EDIT:
feos wrote:
Also, we meant that coins are VIRTUALLY unlimited (as they ARE virtual for we use emulators)
I'd rather see it in a way that the coins can be fed (virtually?) at will.
Whatsoever, my point is that feeding the coins can be managed with skill.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
After watching the encode by feos, I can say that I was thoroughly entertained by the run. As with Metal Slug X, it was very amusing to just see all the carnage going on, and the game didn't even lag as badly as Metal Slug X does. Highlights for me include the boss fight with the musclebound guy in Mission 3, you just slashing your way through everything in Mission 5 and the ship/plane segment in Mission 6. The way you avoided everything was wonderful.
Also, I don't mind the death/continues thing given that, hey, you can complete the game faster with it and regardless what purists say, in the end of the day, you still beat the game. And 12:23 certainly isn't a bad time to do this in.
Yes vote here.
Good run otherwise, but too many deaths detracted from the entertainment, and I still consider continues absolutely unacceptable. Clear no vote.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi.
"I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara
Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Watched the encode, the run was entertaining , but the continue use seem a bit unnecessary, even if you have to keep shoting for 5 seconds by just shoting with pistol, the first 2 deads were rather ok due to not having any weapon nor grenades, but then abusing that continue was rather disnecessary for me even if you keep shooting few seconds.
If a TAS player represent a Godlike player then he will foregoe such a thing, will abuse the deaths in order to save time, but not continues to show how unnecesary this is.
No!
My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!
I just finished watching this, and all I gotta say is....Holy shit. Clearly a lot of effort has been put into this movie, and it really shows. I think I like this even more than the Metal Slug X run.
The only issue I have with this run is the missed shots. Otherwise, great job!
Yes Vote, and I hope people stop this useless debate about continues soon.
OK, watched the movie and BEFORE I vote some statements
My position on using credits is that they are perfectly legit and you may use credits as long they are completly necessary to avoid sacrifying efficiency (or time in this case)... in other words I'm pro continues.
SADLY I think some of these continues could had been avoided for example, in mission 5 you could had grabbed the first Slug and carry it along and sacrifice it before taking the other one (the one just before the boss battle), prior to saving some ammo you could had *maybe* used it against the boss and avoided using the continue. The time spent on Marco and Tarma deaths bringing them back for the grenades would had been compensated by the single frames it would had took on taking the slug along.
On the last mission something similar happened, when the last bridge like thingie exploded a slug falls from it, so if you waited for just some frames the slug falls down on the ship and thus you could had used it against Morden instead of dying.
In resume I think the slugs capacity is seriously understimated and you MUST had took them along and avoided killing the player to get 10 grenades because remember the slug have 10 cannon ammo and plus it's sacrifice attack is massive and all that firepower directly affects the time it may take to defeat the bossess.
So as sad it may be I'm voting "no" because I'm SURE this little details can be worked on and make a better movie, as for the continues I don't really take them in consideration at all.
